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Author Topic: British and French Nuclear Submarines Collide Underwater  (Read 3438 times)

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Offline TheSarge

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British and French Nuclear Submarines Collide Underwater
« on: February 15, 2009, 08:02:40 PM »



BRITISH and French nuclear submarines which collided deep under the Atlantic could have sunk or released deadly radioactivity, it emerged last night.
The Royal Navy’s HMS Vanguard and the French Navy’s Le Triomphant are both nuclear powered and were carrying nuke missiles.

Between them they had around 250 sailors on board.

A senior Navy source said: “The potential consequences are unthinkable. It’s very unlikely there would have been a nuclear explosion.

“But a radioactive leak was a possibility. Worse, we could have lost the crew and warheads. That would have been a national disaster.”

The collision is believed to have taken place on February 3 or 4, in mid-Atlantic. Both subs were submerged and on separate missions.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2240543.ece
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Offline djones520

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Re: British and French Nuclear Submarines Collide Underwater
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2009, 08:03:48 PM »
I'm assuming no survivors?
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Offline ironhorsedriver

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Re: British and French Nuclear Submarines Collide Underwater
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2009, 08:05:00 PM »
BRITISH and French nuclear submarines which collided deep under the Atlantic could have sunk or released deadly radioactivity, it emerged last night.

The Royal Navy’s HMS Vanguard and the French Navy’s Le Triomphant are both nuclear powered and were carrying nuke missiles.

Between them they had around 250 sailors on board.

A senior Navy source said: “The potential consequences are unthinkable. It’s very unlikely there would have been a nuclear explosion.
“But a radioactive leak was a possibility. Worse, we could have lost the crew and warheads. That would have been a national disaster.”
The collision is believed to have taken place on February 3 or 4, in mid-Atlantic. Both subs were submerged and on separate missions.

(more...)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 08:12:10 PM by Chris »
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Offline rich_t

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Re: British and French Nuclear Submarines Collide Underwater
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2009, 08:06:05 PM »
Quote from: djones520 on February 15, 2009, 08:03:48 PM
I'm assuming no survivors?

Per the artical both subs were recovered.  One was towed to port and the other limped home.  So I'm assuming all hands were not lost.
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Offline asdf2231

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Re: British and French Nuclear Submarines Collide Underwater
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2009, 08:07:16 PM »
Quote from: djones520 on February 15, 2009, 08:03:48 PM
I'm assuming no survivors?

Quote
She was last night towed into Faslane in Scotland, with dents and scrapes visible on her hull. Triomphant limped to Brest with extensive damage to her sonar dome.

Triomphant has a crew of 101. Vanguard weighs 16,000 tons, is 150 metres long and has a crew of 140.

The MoD said it did not comment on submarine operations.


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Offline djones520

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Re: British and French Nuclear Submarines Collide Underwater
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2009, 08:08:46 PM »
Ahh, good.  From what I read of what Sarge posted, it made it sound like both ships where lost.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: British and French Nuclear Submarines Collide Underwater
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2009, 08:10:38 PM »
Quote from: djones520 on February 15, 2009, 08:08:46 PM
Ahh, good.  From what I read of what Sarge posted, it made it sound like both ships where lost.
I think the OP was saying what COULD have happened.

How in the world can 2 subs strike each other?  Don't they have that SONAR thingy that is all the rage on underwater vehicles these days?
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Offline rich_t

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Re: British and French Nuclear Submarines Collide Underwater
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2009, 08:11:24 PM »
Quote from: freedumb2003 on February 15, 2009, 08:10:38 PM
I think the OP was saying what COULD have happened.

How in the world can 2 subs strike each other?  Don't they have that SONAR thingy that is all the rage on underwater vehicles these days?

Anti-Sonar tech is pretty advanced these days. 
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: British and French Nuclear Submarines Collide Underwater
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2009, 08:27:42 PM »
Quote from: freedumb2003 on February 15, 2009, 08:10:38 PM
I think the OP was saying what COULD have happened.

How in the world can 2 subs strike each other?  Don't they have that SONAR thingy that is all the rage on underwater vehicles these days?

Sure--boats have sonar.  Active and passive.  And if you want to broadcast your presence to everyone several times you return detection radius, go ahead and use that active sonar.

Passive, OTOH, is listening for sounds both in and around the boat, and behind the boat, using what's called the "tail" or towed array sonar.  All it does is listen for sounds a boat, surface ship, or even low-flying airplane might make, such as machinery, screw cavitation, or splash noise.  But when a boat doesn't WANT to be found, it can be a daunting task at best to find a boat.

Imagine you and your adversary are in a dark room with all sorts of surrounding ambient noise, and you try to focus on specific sounds and/or frequency noises.  Sure, you could use your flashlight (i.e., active sonar), but if you didn't light up your target immediately, the other guy would know where you were immediately without you ever being aware of them being out there.  That's when you go from hunter to hunted.  

Collisions between American and Russian boats have happened.  It's actually surprising that there weren't MORE of them.  That being said, this "senior Navy source" was probably some dipshit E-3 (equivalent) talking shit in a bar in London somewhere.  COULD the boats have been lost?  Sure--however it is very unlikely unless the collision happened at high speeds.  Could there have been a "radioactive leak"?  Even more remote.
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Offline Thor

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Re: British and French Nuclear Submarines Collide Underwater
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2009, 10:04:46 PM »
I'll have to say that nuclear power plants aboard submarines, ESPECIALLY NATO subs are VERY safe. I would even hazard a guess that they are more safe than nuclear power plants ashore. We've been at that since before I was born.

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Offline Crazy Horse

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Re: British and French Nuclear Submarines Collide Underwater
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2009, 10:28:42 PM »
great we're all gonna die from radioactive fish.  At least no US submarines have ever hit others or anything out there where the sea monsters live :whatever:
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: British and French Nuclear Submarines Collide Underwater
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2009, 09:53:51 AM »
Quote from: NHSparky on February 15, 2009, 08:27:42 PM
Passive, OTOH, is listening for sounds both in and around the boat, and behind the boat, using what's called the "tail" or towed array sonar.  All it does is listen for sounds a boat, surface ship, or even low-flying airplane might make, such as machinery, screw cavitation, or splash noise.  But when a boat doesn't WANT to be found, it can be a daunting task at best to find a boat.

The fact that neither knew that the other was there until they hit each other should tell you something about the quality of the systems used to quiet the boomers (sounds like they both were--the Brits admitted it, and I think the French boat's name belongs to a boomer).  For those who don't know, "boomer" is a ballistic missile-carrying sub.

However, both captains will likely never go to sea again.
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Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: British and French Nuclear Submarines Collide Underwater
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2009, 10:48:12 AM »

I am sure that this isn't as unbelievable as it sounds.  it couldn't be.

Quote
French sub unaware it rammed Royal Navy vessel in mid-Atlantic nuclear crash

A French submarine was unaware it had rammed and damaged a British nuclear sub in a mid-Atlantic collision until it was informed by the Royal Navy.

HMS Vanguard and the French submarine Le Triomphant were both carrying nuclear ballistic warheads when they crashed in the Atlantic earlier this month.

Both navies said today that the collision had been unavoidable because the vessels were “running silently” to avoid detection by sonar.

Official inquiries have started in Britain and France into the incident which has raised concerns about the sharing of information between the allied navies.
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The French Navy claimed earlier this month that Le Triomphant’s bow sonar dome was probably damaged in a collision with a submerged shipping container while returning from patrol.

It only discovered it had hit British submarine after one of their regular exchanges of information with the Royal Navy.

More

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Offline thundley4

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Re: British and French Nuclear Submarines Collide Underwater
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2009, 11:01:02 AM »
Quote from: Crazy Horse on February 15, 2009, 10:28:42 PM
great we're all gonna die from radioactive fish.  At least no US submarines have ever hit others or anything out there where the sea monsters live :whatever:


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Offline Chris_

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Re: British and French Nuclear Submarines Collide Underwater
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2009, 11:19:07 AM »
...at what point did the French surrender to the British?
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Offline Sam Adams

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Re: British and French Nuclear Submarines Collide Underwater
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2009, 03:19:45 AM »
Quote from: lug-nut on February 16, 2009, 11:19:07 AM
...at what point did the French surrender to the British?

immediately
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