Author Topic: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?  (Read 4273 times)

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Offline MrsSmith

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What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« on: February 14, 2009, 10:56:18 PM »
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The Straight Story  (1000+ posts)        Sat Feb-14-09 11:24 PM
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What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
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Is it being able to have control over your own body in the choices you make - whether to have an abortion or many kids, does it mean that as a business owner you can allow people to breastfeed in your establishment or not, does it mean you want a choice to go to a place that allows smoking (whether pot, cigs, cigars, pipes, whatever) or one that does not, does it mean you can own a gun or not, Does it mean as a homeless person you can choose to live in a tent without rules versus in a shelter with it's restrictions, and I suppose the list could go on all day here.

I am not talking about freedom FROM things, but freedom that enables people to make choices.

Where do you think we stop/punish the choice of others and why?

One of the things I sense from others is that "If your choice affects/infringes on me..." kind of things, but then one can make an argument that anything you do does affect/infringe on others. If you drink alcohol (or drive a car, have certain light bulbs in your house, use a gas powered mower, etc) you are more at risk in the health arena (or environment, etc based on previous list), and one can map that back to costs/taxes and so on.

How do we balance the Nashian idea (A beautiful mind movie) "Do what is best for yourself and the group to get the best result" with individual freedom?

 

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Sarah Ibarruri  (1000+ posts)        Sat Feb-14-09 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. It means not fearing that the rich and powerful are going to be allowed to steal my chances in life
 It means that I have the freedom to feel peaceful that if I end up sick or jobless, I will not end up a bag lady.

It means that I have the freedom to feel relaxed that my government is ensuring that the food I buy is tainted with poisons.

It means that I have the freedom of assurance that my government oversees banks so that they don't sneak under my nose a stylishly written loan document that result in me ending up foreclosed or bankrupted.

It means that I have the freedom to know that my govt. oversees health insurance, so that if I pay health insurance to take care of me when I'm sick, that health insurance WILL have to take care of me when I'm sick.

Stuff like that. 
 

Freedom means that my government takes care of me.  OK!   ::) ::)

The OP is interesting, but SS has a major problem with recognizing what actually affects someone else.   ::)
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Offline rich_t

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2009, 11:07:46 PM »
Sarah Ibarruri, you are one truly stupid bitch.
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Offline Mike220

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2009, 11:15:36 PM »
Nice typo. We can only hope her food is poisoned.

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freedom to feel relaxed that my government is ensuring that the food  I buy is tainted with poisons.
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Offline LC EFA

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2009, 11:33:35 PM »
The only freedom they want is the freedom to tell everyone else what to do and how to do it.

Offline rich_t

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2009, 11:39:37 PM »
The only freedom they want is the freedom to tell everyone else what to do and how to do it.


Close.

They also want others to pay for what they think should be given to them at no cost.
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline Vagabond

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2009, 03:22:08 AM »
Sarah Ibarruri, you are one truly stupid bitch.
Nah, more like a sheep than a bitch.  As long as a sheep gets it's hay and water, life is good.
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2009, 05:12:42 AM »
Nice typo. We can only hope her food is poisoned.

Quote
freedom to feel relaxed that my government is ensuring that the food  I buy is tainted with poisons.


We can only hope . . . (need that praying simile again!)  :tongue: :innocent:
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

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Offline diesel driver

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2009, 09:28:26 AM »
Here are some of the freedoms I wish we had:

Freedom from having my pocket picked by the federal government so that DUmmies can continue to thrive and vote for Dimrats....

Freedom to do with my land what I want without having to get an enviromental impact report for a permit to dig a hole to erect a post to anchor my dog to....

Freedom to save for my own retirement, risks and all, instead of having 15.3% of what I earn stolen from me for a "retirement system" that will (probably) not exist when I retire....

Freedom to shoot any dumbass lawyer that brings charges against any citizen who shoots and kills a criminal in the act of committing a crime, and the judge that decides to proceed with such a trial (this also applies to any lawyer that wishes to defend any of the detainees at Gitmo)....

Just to name a few....


Murphy's 3rd Law:  "You can't make anything 'idiot DUmmie proof'.  The world will just create a better idiot DUmmie."

Liberals are like Slinkys.  Basically useless, but they do bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs...
 
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2009, 09:55:11 AM »
Surprisingly intelligent question for Straight Story.  I suspect it would've sounded a lot less intelligent if he had supplied his own opinions and supporting rationales for them.
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That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2009, 09:58:42 AM »
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Sarah Ibarruri  (1000+ posts)        Sat Feb-14-09 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. It means not fearing that the rich and powerful are going to be allowed to steal my chances in life
 It means that I have the freedom to feel peaceful that if I end up sick or jobless, I will not end up a bag lady.

It means that I have the freedom to feel relaxed that my government is ensuring that the food I buy is tainted with poisons.

It means that I have the freedom of assurance that my government oversees banks so that they don't sneak under my nose a stylishly written loan document that result in me ending up foreclosed or bankrupted.

It means that I have the freedom to know that my govt. oversees health insurance, so that if I pay health insurance to take care of me when I'm sick, that health insurance WILL have to take care of me when I'm sick.

Stuff like that. 
You know who wlse have their jobs, food, housing and healthcare supplied for them?








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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2009, 10:12:47 AM »
Go and tell the Spartans, O traveler passing by
That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice.

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2009, 10:19:50 AM »
And prisoners.
At least prisoners earned their status by preying upon by innocent people.

I s'pose an argument could be made about DUmmies preying upon honest, hard-working Americans vis-a-vis their legislators.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline jukin

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2009, 11:03:36 AM »
The freedom to have other people pay for my choices?
When you are the beneficiary of someone’s kindness and generosity, it produces a sense of gratitude and community.

When you are the beneficiary of a policy that steals from someone and gives it to you in return for your vote, it produces a sense of entitlement and dependency.

Offline franksolich

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2009, 06:00:05 PM »
Sarah Ibarruri, you are one truly stupid bitch.

In late 2004, just before the presidential elections, this primitive swore she was leaving the United States if George Bush was re-elected.

Well, George Bush was re-elected, and I kept waiting for her to announce she was leaving.

She never left.

Another primitive lied, damn it.
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Offline EastFacingNorth

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2009, 09:07:52 PM »
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I am not talking about freedom FROM things, but freedom that enables people to make choices.

That line, right there, is the turd in this punchbowl.

It's a good thing to discuss the nature of freedom.  The political philosophers whose ideas are the basis of pretty much any sort of political arrangement you can think of, break freedom (liberty) into two categories - negative liberties and positive liberties.

Negative liberties are the things you are free from(or would like to be free from).  Such as, freedom from religious persecution, freedom from unwarranted arrest and/or detainment, freedom from excessive taxation, freedom from burdensome regulation, etc.

Positive liberties are the things you are free to do or have.  However, it isn't as simple as "You're free to have a gun if you so choose" or "You're free to marry a goat of the same gender as yourself" - these are negative liberties, as the liberties in question do not provide you with anything, but merely withdraw limitations.  Positive liberties are provisions for material goods and services - the freedom to have a gun given to you, the freedom to have your same-sex bestial wedding service provided at no charge, etc.

Obviously, negative liberties are more often associated with Locke, Hume, de Tocqueville, and the like - the guys our founding fathers boned up on when they thought up our nation's government, and their ideological descendants.

Just as obviously, positive liberties are most strongly associated with Marx and Engels, Freud, etc.  (And no offense Frank, as I know you're something of a fan of Freud, but he was absolutely a pinko dirtbag.)

The Straight Story's aforementioned turd turned what could have possibly been an interesting conversation to watch into another commie circle-jerk.
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Offline Chris

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2009, 12:55:32 AM »
Freedom means that my government takes care of me.  OK!   ::) ::)

The OP is interesting, but SS has a major problem with recognizing what actually affects someone else.   ::)

Your city's general hospital is the closest example to government-run health coverage we have.  Wander over there some time and let the rest of us know if you would rather be treated there, or at a private hospital/ER.
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Offline lnthomp

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2009, 01:00:45 AM »
How about the freedom to earn wages based on my ability to perform rather that based on a union boss who makes more than my company CEO telling my company it has to pay me based on how long I've been on the job.  Not the mention the freedom to spend my earned money in a way that I choose, rather than how a union or government that takes away my earned money decides to spend it.
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Offline rich_t

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2009, 01:02:43 AM »
Your city's general hospital is the closest example to government-run health coverage we have.  Wander over there some time and let the rest of us know if you would rather be treated there, or at a private hospital/ER.

You assume that there are any private hospitals/ER's in any given city.
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Offline rich_t

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2009, 01:09:32 AM »
How about the freedom to earn wages based on my ability to perform rather that based on a union boss who makes more than my company CEO telling my company it has to pay me based on how long I've been on the job.  Not the mention the freedom to spend my earned money in a way that I choose, rather than how a union or government that takes away my earned money decides to spend it.

Were you forced at gun point to join a union?

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2009, 01:53:16 PM »
In some states people do have to join a union. and a particular union at that, there is no free choice in unions or we could start a rightwing workers union.

Offline asdf2231

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2009, 01:55:10 PM »
Freedom means Liberty And Justice.





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Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2009, 02:05:09 PM »
they don't even know what liberty or freedom is???

figures

Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2009, 02:41:23 PM »
Freedom means Liberty And Justice.



So, then . . . then again, a pair of hot chicks kissing is a good thing.  :naughty: :tongue:
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

"All you have to do is look straight and see the road, and when you see it, don't sit looking at it - walk!" -Ayn Rand
 
"Those that trust God with their safety must yet use proper means for their safety, otherwise they tempt Him, and do not trust Him.  God will provide, but so must we also." - Matthew Henry, Commentary on 2 Chronicles 32, from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible

"These anti-gun fools are more dangerous to liberty than street criminals or foreign spies."--Theodore Haas, Dachau Survivor

Chase her.
Chase her even when she's yours.
That's the only way you'll be assured to never lose her.

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2009, 02:42:13 PM »
So, then . . . then again, a pair of hot chicks kissing is a good thing.  :naughty: :tongue:

It's why we killed all those Nazis and Japs!

USA! USA! USA!

:-)




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Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life...

Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: What does 'having freedom' mean really to you?
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2009, 02:46:45 PM »
It's why we killed all those Nazis and Japs!

USA! USA! USA!

:-)

I love freedom!  :-) (H5 for the poster, BTW!)
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

"All you have to do is look straight and see the road, and when you see it, don't sit looking at it - walk!" -Ayn Rand
 
"Those that trust God with their safety must yet use proper means for their safety, otherwise they tempt Him, and do not trust Him.  God will provide, but so must we also." - Matthew Henry, Commentary on 2 Chronicles 32, from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible

"These anti-gun fools are more dangerous to liberty than street criminals or foreign spies."--Theodore Haas, Dachau Survivor

Chase her.
Chase her even when she's yours.
That's the only way you'll be assured to never lose her.