Author Topic: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble  (Read 2453 times)

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Offline LC EFA

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Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« on: January 03, 2009, 06:10:41 PM »
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Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
John Harlow in Los Angeles

RESIDENTS of a model housing estate bankrolled by Hollywood celebrities and hand-built by Jimmy Carter, the former US president, are complaining that it is falling apart.

Fairway Oaks was built on northern Florida wasteland by 10,000 volunteers, including Carter, in a record 17-day “blitz” organised by the charity Habitat for Humanity.

[more]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5439388.ece


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Offline MrsSmith

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Re: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2009, 06:54:15 PM »
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Carter's one-day appearance will occur in the middle of HabiJax's three-week, 100-house blitz build.

https://www.habitat.org/jcwp/2000/monfla.html


Three weeks?  Ok, I'm no construction worker, but if those 3-weeks included putting in foundations...which then had no time to cure  before slapping the walls up...it's no wonder they're all falling apart.   ::)
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Offline Lord Undies

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Re: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2009, 06:56:50 PM »
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Some residents dismiss their neighbours’ worries. Diennal Fields, 51, said people did not know how to look after their homes: “It’s simple stuff: if there is mildew, don’t get a lawyer, get a bottle of bleach.”

My thinking too.  Most people who would need a Habitat For Humanity home has no idea how keep it up.  Giving a house to someone with no lifeskills is pointless in the long run.

Five feet of garbage under the kitchen?  My guess is someone hates to take out the trash.

Offline Lord Undies

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Re: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2009, 06:58:28 PM »
https://www.habitat.org/jcwp/2000/monfla.html


Three weeks?  Ok, I'm no construction worker, but if those 3-weeks included putting in foundations...which then had no time to cure  before slapping the walls up...it's no wonder they're all falling apart.   ::)

The framing on my house began two days after the slab was poured.  Twenty-five years later, the walls are doing fine.

Offline Miss Mia

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Re: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2009, 07:04:16 PM »
Well, building on a landfill is part of the problem.  As the garbage degrades the house will sink causing problems. 
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Offline MrsSmith

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Re: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2009, 07:06:17 PM »
The framing on my house began two days after the slab was poured.  Twenty-five years later, the walls are doing fine.
Again, I'm not a construction worker...but I think they run the foundation a few days before pouring a slab.  At least, in every construction site I've seen, they ran the foundation and left for a few days, then came back and went on with things.
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Offline Lord Undies

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Re: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2009, 07:17:00 PM »
Well, building on a landfill is part of the problem.  As the garbage degrades the house will sink causing problems. 

Ah!  There lies the rub.  Where was the EPA, the environmental studies, the geologists studies, and the local inspectors when this grand humanitarian effort was conceived?  We all pay tons of money to be protected from this sort of malfeasance. 

Offline Jim

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Re: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2009, 09:05:24 PM »
Again, I'm not a construction worker...but I think they run the foundation a few days before pouring a slab.  At least, in every construction site I've seen, they ran the foundation and left for a few days, then came back and went on with things.


A slab is not a foundation as you point out.  Also, its another few days before much load is actually on the foundation.  Its not best practice but its lower risk.  It takes 28 days for normal concrete to achieve rated load capacity, it will continue to cure past that under proper circumstances.

(I used to be a concrete inspector.  I was trained the 'right' way but taught about the other ways as well.  Housing is rarely done the right way but they loads are far less critical relative to commercial work.)
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Offline Lord Undies

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Re: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2009, 09:57:16 PM »

A slab is not a foundation as you point out.  Also, its another few days before much load is actually on the foundation.  Its not best practice but its lower risk.  It takes 28 days for normal concrete to achieve rated load capacity, it will continue to cure past that under proper circumstances.

(I used to be a concrete inspector.  I was trained the 'right' way but taught about the other ways as well.  Housing is rarely done the right way but they loads are far less critical relative to commercial work.)

Depending on where you are building, a slab can very well be a foundation. 

Offline rich_t

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Re: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2009, 09:59:54 PM »
Depending on where you are building, a slab can very well be a foundation. 

Where have you seen a slab home built without footers?  Just curious.
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Offline Lord Undies

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Re: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2009, 10:07:44 PM »
Where have you seen a slab home built without footers?  Just curious.

My business brought me in contact with a lot of homes built in and around Dallas.  The lots were graded.  The forms were set.  The sand and the rebar went in and the slab was poured.  The underlying mile of limestone was the footing.

My home sits on salt and limestone.  I couldn't dig a six foot deep hole in my yard if I blasted.  We are famous for not having basements around here.   

Offline Chris_

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Re: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2009, 10:18:22 PM »
Well, building on a landfill is part of the problem.  As the garbage degrades the house will sink causing problems. 
It could have been worse.  They could have built on ancient Indian burial grounds.
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Offline docstew

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Re: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2009, 05:06:34 PM »
It could have been worse.  They could have built on ancient Indian burial grounds.


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Re: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2009, 05:48:29 PM »

A slab is not a foundation as you point out.  Also, its another few days before much load is actually on the foundation.  Its not best practice but its lower risk.  It takes 28 days for normal concrete to achieve rated load capacity, it will continue to cure past that under proper circumstances.

(I used to be a concrete inspector.  I was trained the 'right' way but taught about the other ways as well.  Housing is rarely done the right way but they loads are far less critical relative to commercial work.)

I read that concrete takes a long time to dry. Building a house on landfill is asking for trouble.
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Offline Chris

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Re: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2009, 05:55:24 PM »
I read that concrete takes a long time to dry. Building a house on landfill is asking for trouble.

There's an industrial/office complex that built some buildings on top of a landfill around here.  Every once in a while, it will let loose with a nice, juicy fart.

I'm glad I don't have to work there.
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Offline MrsSmith

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Re: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2009, 07:44:33 PM »
My business brought me in contact with a lot of homes built in and around Dallas.  The lots were graded.  The forms were set.  The sand and the rebar went in and the slab was poured.  The underlying mile of limestone was the footing.

My home sits on salt and limestone.  I couldn't dig a six foot deep hole in my yard if I blasted.  We are famous for not having basements around here.   
I would agree that you can just pour the whole thing if you're on top of solid stone.  That doesn't seem to be the case in the OP.  If they built 100 houses in three weeks - including the foundation - I can't see how anyone would expect them to stand up long, regardless of upkeep.
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Offline Peter3_1

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Re: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2009, 07:47:49 PM »
Concrete needs to cure too, so they were stressing the concrete before it was fully "cured" , which is not smart.

Offline Lord Undies

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Re: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2009, 07:49:33 PM »
I would agree that you can just pour the whole thing if you're on top of solid stone.  That doesn't seem to be the case in the OP.  If they built 100 houses in three weeks - including the foundation - I can't see how anyone would expect them to stand up long, regardless of upkeep.

I agree.  I was responding to the thought that a slab cannot be a foundation.  It clearly can be a foundation within the proper circumstances.

Offline Jim

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Re: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2009, 09:29:31 PM »
I agree.  I was responding to the thought that a slab cannot be a foundation.  It clearly can be a foundation within the proper circumstances.


Not exactly

The problem is that a slab itself it not think enough to bear the load though you can pour it a little thicker where the foundation would normally go.   Like so...



My fellow Americans, there is nothing audacious about hope. Hope is what makes people buy lottery tickets instead of paying the bills. Hope is for the old gals feeding the slots in Atlantic City. It destroys the inner-city kid who quits school because he hopes he'll be a world-famous recording artist.

What's the difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama?

One is a well turned-out, good-looking, and let's be honest, pretty sexy piece of eye-candy.

The other kills her own food.

Offline Lord Undies

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Re: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2009, 11:11:05 PM »

Not exactly

The problem is that a slab itself it not think enough to bear the load though you can pour it a little thicker where the foundation would normally go.   Like so...





"Wire mesh" hardly discribes the rebar steel.  Gravel is not used, sand is, and all load-bearing outside walls are a few inches deeper.  It is still just a slab, and it's the foundation.

Offline Baruch Menachem

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Re: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2009, 11:25:05 PM »
All we really need to know is that Jimmy Carter had a hand in it, and it failed.  Cause and effect. :fuelfire:

From what I have read, sweat equity really does work in most cases, but I think in this case there was too much going on.  Building that fast on top of a bad soil just begs for trouble.


Soils are a major problem all over the place.  Every so often you hear about houses in Malibu that jump off a cliff.   We have had several expensive homes slide down hills here in Portland this year.   In this case it wasn't shoddy construction or lack of maintenance.  There was a severe case of bad engineering to build houses there.   

And in this case it strikes me as a whole bunch of corners were being cut.  You saw the same kind of thing at Love Canal, where the school district condemned a toxic waste dump to build a school.  The company said, ok, build here, but not there.  The school district sold the really bad parts of the dump to a developer.  some folks get rich quick, and some die slowly.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Charity homes built by Hollywood start to crumble
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2009, 03:27:38 AM »

Not exactly

The problem is that a slab itself it not think enough to bear the load though you can pour it a little thicker where the foundation would normally go.   Like so...





That type slab/pour was called a "monolithic slab" where I come from....without the gravel under the thick part. The thick part went down to original ground or to a depth deemed thick enough to support the load. There are several industrial buildings and appartments complex's around here that I graded for that used that type pour and they've had no problems.

I did do one job that had a problem....not my fault. The concrete company contracted all the concrete work. They furnished all the concrete and labor to pour and finish. Pretty long slabs with no expansion joints. The slabs cracked and had cracks that were wide enough and deep enough that I could stick my knife blade 3/4" deep in them. These cracks happened before the buildings went up so they had to rip it all out and start over. 
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