School sued over religious ed

[MrsSmith]

douglas9 (411 posts)        Fri Jan-02-09 07:55 AM
Original message
School sued over religious ed
 Advertisements [?] 

 
 
Source: South Bend Tribune

HUNTINGTON, Ind. (AP) -- School officials in a northeastern Indiana district deny that a religious education program offered during the school day illegally advances religion, as a federal lawsuit claims.

A complaint filed by attorneys with the American Civil Liberties Union of Indiana on behalf of an unnamed woman and her 8-year-old son asks a federal judge to shut down the program and bar the school district from providing it with utilities or any other support.

The boy, identified only as "J.S.," attends Horace Mann Elementary School, which offers third- and fourth-grade students a "release time" program for "By the Book Weekday Religious Instruction" through the Associated Churches of Huntington, the suit states.

The Huntington County Community School Corp. argued in its Dec. 22 response to the lawsuit that the release time program neither advances nor inhibits religion.

Read more: http://www.southbendtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?D...
 

This may turn into a nice bonfire, not many replies yet...

Huntington's program is voluntary. Classes meet once a week in mobile trailers near school buildings, and children who don't participate remain in their classrooms with school staff, according to a brochure for the program filed with the lawsuit.

...

The students are escorted to the program by their teachers each week, and those who do not participate receive no school programming during the release time, the suit alleges. The school district denies that students who do not participate in the program receive no instruction.

...

The district acknowledges offering the program to third- and fourth-grade students with their parents' consent for one hour of religious education each week...

livvy  (1000+ posts)        Fri Jan-02-09 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. As an elementary public school teacher, I would be very upset.
 That optional instruction takes an hour out of instructional time for all the students. I do not know of any teacher who would continue regular instruction (math, reading, science, etc.) with a portion of their students (even a small portion) out of the classroom. When I have students out of my room for additional services (reading, speech, social services, etc.), I read to my kids or they have a work period, when they can work on previously given assignments. I would not consider introducing new material, or giving any kind of lesson.

The point that the "program neither advances nor inhibits religion" misses the point entirely. It infringes on the rights of the students who opt out, by denying them instructional time.

I hope the parents whose children opt out of this program complain loud and clear. I hope the teachers are able to complain as well, without fear of retribution. I know the teachers in my district would be howling, and the union would back them 100%.

So, they already make the some of kids lose educational time every time the other kids get extra help, but releasing some kids for one hour per week to another class would be a major problem?     Do you suppose this teacher would have as much trouble with releasing Muslim kids for their prayer times...or would just be afraid to say anything in that case?   
 

[Flame]

That optional instruction takes an hour out of instructional time for all the students. I do not know of any teacher who would continue regular instruction (math, reading, science, etc.) with a portion of their students (even a small portion) out of the classroom. When I have students out of my room for additional services (reading, speech, social services, etc.), I read to my kids or they have a work period, when they can work on previously given assignments. I would not consider introducing new material, or giving any kind of lesson.

BULLSHIT!

From both sides of the coin, as a teacher and a parent, I call bullshit on this!  As a teacher, no way could you stop instruction when a samll group is out of the classroom.  Nothing would ever get done!   Been there, done that....you just keep going and help the kid catch up when they get back (most of the time, anyway...sometimes the child is not responsible for what was missed).

And as a paretn of a 3rd grader who is pulled out for an hour, three times a week, (for the "gifted enrichment" program), he is still responsible for what was done in class while he was gone.  He misses either 3 social studies or 3 science classes each week (the switch), and he still needs to know all the info for the tests. 

[JohnnyReb]

It infringes on the rights of the students who opt out, by denying them instructional time......Why, we could be teaching them that homosexuality is OK and how to do it.......OR, how much better the socialist system is better than the liberal-lite one we have now is........ OR, ______________(fill in the blank with your favorite liberal agenda).

[MrsSmith]

BULLSHIT!

From both sides of the coin, as a teacher and a parent, I call bullshit on this!  As a teacher, no way could you stop instruction when a samll group is out of the classroom.  Nothing would ever get done!   Been there, done that....you just keep going and help the kid catch up when they get back (most of the time, anyway...sometimes the child is not responsible for what was missed).

And as a paretn of a 3rd grader who is pulled out for an hour, three times a week, (for the "gifted enrichment" program), he is still responsible for what was done in class while he was gone.  He misses either 3 social studies or 3 science classes each week (the switch), and he still needs to know all the info for the tests. 

On the other hand, if true, it perfectly explains the lousy results from most public schools, and the hatred of NCLB. 

What I don't understand about the complaint is why there is a major problem with timing other voluntary classes at that same time?  (Something I suspect the school actually does.)  Or at least a study hall...(or whatever they call that time today.)