primitive whines about new front door

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=287x7214

Oh my.  One can't please some primitives, no matter how hard one tries.

mopinko  (1000+ posts)        Wed Dec-10-08 12:20 PM
Original message
 
omfg. my new front door. am i crazy, or is this really what people are putting on the front of their houses?

ok, here is my door-

after which a photograph of a wooden door that looks perfectly fine

i already have a double door like this on the interior of this foyer. no side lites, just a pair of doors. they are in a regular 2 x 4 wall.

i ordered a door with 2 lites and a transom. the opening is in a masonry wall. the existing door is the same as what i ordered, pretty much. the main jamb is about 12", door hangs in a narrow jamb, about 3", lites and transom are framed out the same.

so, they send me this abomination. they framed out each of the parts in 2 x 12, then nailed them together. so, each element is in a clunky, crazy box. this is inside of the door. these stiles/jambs/whatever you call them hang out past the sill. they are put together with those squiggly connectors. no trim over it. oops, we just forgot to put it on the truck. i can't even see the glass in the transom.

i am probably not describing it well enough for you to imagine the ridiculousness of it.

i made them put it back on the truck, even though i waited since august for them to special order it because the opening is 1/2" short of the standard. and my existing door is halfway removed.

i paid a fortune for this shit. and of course, i had to say, not once, not twice, but three times- do not piss down my back and tell me it is raining. insulation, it's so heavy, that's the way they do it now, it is heavier than the door that is there (not. and certainly not for the door that it was built for 100 years ago), yada, yada, yada.

i told them that if they can take me to a half million dollar house, and show me a door that looks like that, i will take it back.

oy ****ing vey.

mopinko  (1000+ posts)        Wed Dec-10-08 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
 
1. ok, a little carpenter speak.

the term is mull. this door set was mulled out with 2 x 12's. double 2 x 12's.

i had a little chat with the fellow that handles doors at my local crafty beaver. says the factory does not build these out, that they are usually mulled in the field. so, this guy got a millwork shop to do something that they don't usually do, and they ****ed it up.

the good news is that the dealer i talked to said that they stock everything that i should need to do this right. i think i will be telling them to peel it apart, send me the door, lites, etc, and i will get someone who knows wtf they are doing to install.

i guess this means it is time to make up with a buddy of mine that i had a spat with.

he and i can get it done right in a day or 2 and i can kiss these clowns goodbye.

but this is how i ended up learning so many things. pay someone to do something, and find out that they don't know either. then get the book.

Wash. state Desk Jet  (1000+ posts)      Wed Dec-10-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
 
2. Stucco , brick , indeed.

I usually call a door store for that, and have them come out and measure. Even if I draw up the specs. on paper.,who is to say the shop will get it right. How much did you think you were saving yourself buying the way you did? You know leaving it up to them to get it right? Installers are not general contractors or carpenters.And if you are going to general the project ,than you are the one that has to know. Otherwise you must hire a contractor general that does know.

Buy all the books.Now there is ,two ways to do it ,one is a four year collage degree ,the other is ten years plus in the field,and there is schooling involved. Trade math and blue print reading for starters. The third way is to do it yourself. Teach yourself as you go. A real good way about it is to start off as a apprentice.

I have a number of customers/clients that are also my apprentices.They save some money by helping,and learn about the trades at the same time.Very many of the homes I work on are worth about half a million. It's rather like the average home.

When it reaches the point where I can solve some of the simple problems at the home for the homeowner over the phone, I know that my students, many of which are very well educated,are coming along well in their studies.I always suggest they buy the how too books, if for no other reason than at least be on the same page as I am.Much better that reaching out into the sky with questions upon questions.

Somebody must know all the answers. The somebody is called the project general.If that is you, than you must know.

mopinko  (1000+ posts)        Wed Dec-10-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
 
3. first, i did an apprenticeship with the carpenters union, but that was a long time ago, and i didn't get to work on houses much. i do read blueprints, and i do still have the book. i know enough to know that they don't build them that way now, and that it was not going to give me better insulation. i may forget whether it is a stile or a mullion, but i know a ridiculous abortion of a job when i see one.

i made the boys look like bozos at the time, btw.

second, this was contracted to a exterior contractor. he should have known. he gave this to a millwork shop, which also should have known. but the indoor carpenters got sold out by the union a long time ago, and any idiot can work in a mill shop.

i picked out the door, and the rest of the package. i expected them to be put together the way it is done in the free world here.

i just have to wonder if these guys are staring at my boobs, and can't hear a word i say, or what.

One wonders what's up with that, that negative comment about labor unions.

I thought the primitives liked labor unions.

Wash. state Desk Jet  (1000+ posts)      Wed Dec-10-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
 
4. You have been away from it for some time.

It does not matter what they are looking at when it comes down to what you are wondering. I cannot answer that in length but, I can tell you this, I became a gereral contractor because necessity predicts the out come.One by one over thirty years.Nobody changes my schedule,and I will hear no bull shit excuses.

mopinko  (1000+ posts)        Wed Dec-10-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
 
5. trust me, friend, you would have put that mess back on the truck.

and i have been in it here and there all along. and the house is 104 years old. i may be a little out of date, but don't tell me that this is a heavier door than the oak and heavy glass that were there when it was new.

i am not so upset at the mess as the excuses and the bs. a double 2 x 12 for what should be a 1 x 4 or so? please. 2 x 12's all over the place instead of fine trim? really. i am sorry i didn't take a picture. it was the craziest thing i ever saw.

Wash. state Desk Jet  (1000+ posts)      Wed Dec-10-08 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
 
6. I don't disagree with you.

I see that you sent the junk work back. You said you don't think they heard or understood a word you said. I don't know how to tell you how much of a problem that is in the field. We stay with the same suppliers and sub contractors these days because good ones are few and far between. In field talk, you told them to get that shit for work off your project.And rightfully so, I am sure.

[Chris]

Who can afford new doors in this economy? 

</cliche>

[franksolich]

Who can afford new doors in this economy? 

</cliche>

It's hard to tell, the way the primitive worded it, if the photograph's of the old door or of the new door.

If it's the old door, one wonders why it was replaced; it looks perfectly fine.

If it's the new door, it looks perfectly fine.

Some people just can't be pleased no matter what.