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RedLetterRev (1000+ posts) Wed Nov-19-08 01:38 PMOriginal message Encouraging a fox to keep his distance Several other threads have gotten me to think about this problem lately and I'd like to see if other folks have managed to co-exist peacefully with critters.A couple of years ago, my partner and I moved to the country. I mean way out. No cable, no DSL, practically have to pipe in daylight. We have three good-sized dogs: a cattledog-springer mix who is my partner's service assistant; a smooth collie-chessie(?) mix; and a collie-who-knows-what mix. They're all well-socialized, trained using all-positive, zero-aversive methods, indoor dogs, brought up to be very gentle since my partner is disabled. They really can't take on wild critters. Since I trained them to be gentle, it's also my responsibility to take up for them and defend themWhen they're out for potties, they're supervised, but dogs being dogs, you can't watch them every split second, nor can you keep your eye on every inch of woods every second. Which brings me to the point of my post.There has been a fox running around lately, trying to get at my neighbor's chickens. He's traversed our yard often in his quest for a chicken dinner (which, if my neighbor catches him, will earn him wings, alright, and a harp of his own). We've heard him and our girls have growled from inside the house. For their "last potty of the night" I've been going out with them with a pistol on in case Mr fox gets any ideas to approach, but I'd really, really rather discourage him from coming around at all. My girls don't know they can't defend themselves against something wild and I REALLY don't want to take the chance I might accidentally shoot one of them instead of a marauding fox or raccoon bent on running them out of "its" territory. My gut says they would "probably" run from it, but I don't know that and I'm not willing to chance it. Dora, the assistant, is much, much too valuable to lose, let alone the emotion, training, and devotion we've put into her. My partner cannot do without her -- she is his freedom to move about safely in the world.All of them have been/are being trained as assistants, regardless of whether they make the cut (Dora did, the middle won't, the youngest might); they represent a huge amount of emotional investiture as well as daily hours of training and exercise. They're more than tools; they're more than friends; they are our babies.Is there "something bigger's" urine or something else that might be effective in encouraging him/them to move on? Vacuuming up the dog-hair from the house and emptying the canisters around the edges of the yard (that's a 2-acre plot by itself; we've got another 6 acres of woods) didn't phase him a bit. The raccoon I saw out a while back seems to have moved on. The groundhog ignores the fox and laughs at the dogs. It's the fox I still kinda worry about, since it tends to prowl about the same time the girls have their last tinkle for the night.Any advice would be appreciated. We try to keep as green/calm/non-invasive as we can on our little farm.
MineralMan (129 posts) Wed Nov-19-08 01:44 PMResponse to Original message 1. In reality, a fox won't approach your dogs, nor interact with them, most likely. Foxes are small, cautious members of the canine family, and generally do not provoke conflict with animals larger than themselves.What's most likely is that you'll never see the little vulpine critter when the dogs are about outdoors. It will just skirt your property to avoid the situation.Now, if it were a coyote, that would be another matter, but I wouldn't get too concerned about a fox, unless rabies is rampant in your area.
uppityperson (1000+ posts) Wed Nov-19-08 01:49 PMResponse to Reply #1 2. I agree with this. Unless rabies are an issue, I wouldn't worry about a fox. Foxes are small and fluffy and I don't see them attacking any dog beyond maybe a pocket puppy. Even that is doubtful. Foxes are shy and cautiouslIf your dogs attack it, it would probably try to flee, then snarl and do what it could to get away. I'd be more concerned about coyotes, but even they usually run from dogs.Be excited to see a fox, and congratulations if you have one as they are usually difficult to spot. Unless you have chickens they can get at.
RedLetterRev (1000+ posts) Wed Nov-19-08 03:34 PMResponse to Reply #2 6. They'd set up a fuss, but they're uninclined to attack anything. They only things they're allowed to run toward are squirrels. Those have home-court advantage of distance from the back door and proximity to trees. But its great sport for the dogs. They've been taught that everything else is "NO!" -- if they don't know what something is, they're to set up a fuss. That's part of their service training and it's a good idea for any dog living in the country.Potentially, that saved my middle girl's life. She encountered a copperhead in the yard. She didn't approach it, but she did set up a fuss, got between it and me, and stayed well away from it until I could get there to see what was the matter. Good to know what's what. There are some critters that will show no compunction or mercy if they sense that another animal is either weaker or uninclined to fight. I prefer to tread as lightly as possible on my little corner of the world. Again, since my girls are trained as service dogs and have had aggression set aside for gentleness in every situation, it's my job to keep them as safe as I can and I want to do that job with every non-lethal means available to me.
foxfeet (444 posts) Wed Nov-19-08 01:55 PMResponse to Original message 3. I agree with the above posts. A fox is extremely unlikely to attack a pack of three dogs, or even one if the dog is larger. You can buy concentrated bobcat urine to set up a perimeter. No guarantees, but it might work. Check with your local county agricultural agent or with your fish and wildlife department ( or whatever y'all call it there) for rabies info and further suggestions. Good luck!
panader0 (1000+ posts) Wed Nov-19-08 02:06 PMResponse to Original message 4. My advice: Leave the fox alone. You moved into his area. Nature will take it's course, without a pistol. Foxes are beautiful and threatened (as your post proves).I too live 'way out in the boonies, with lots of coyotes and javelina and hawks and big owls. We have lost several cats, and had a dog wounded badly by the javelina, but this is their turf, and I would never shoot them (don't even have a gun)My chicken coop is predator proof. It's east to do. Have a zoo nearby? Get some lion shit and spread it around.
RedLetterRev (1000+ posts) Wed Nov-19-08 02:26 PMResponse to Original message 5. Well, that's a relief to know although there are coyotes in the county, but they've kept themselves down south a good ways. So far. They're under no particular pressure to leave their own wild areas, though it's possible one may wander. It has happened before. I remain wary and vigilant against those.Foxes shy? Don't bet on it! Our little visitor saunters right through the yard on his way to see if he has any better luck getting a chicken dinner. You should see Dora at the window -- every hair on her body stands straight out. If she weren't in such high dudgeon, it'd be hilarious. I've seen plenty of dogs with their hackles up; never saw one puff up like a bottle brush. That's m'girl I've seen foxes out in the daylight in Florida. I used to work in an industrial park in Boca Raton that had some wild area around it. Several times a week one made an appearance, hunting mice and lizards and wasn't shy a bit. They do tolerate humanity and clearly don't mind if there are dogs around.It's easy enough to bring foxes around. If you have one or two around, they'll accept dog food at the edge of the woods. A co-worker of mine throws a scoop or two out for them every night and his game-camera takes nice photos. They'll take some nice veggies, too. I just didn't know how to get them to keep a respectful distance if I needed to. BTW, the cheaper dog food with high corn content may get raided by the deer first. My co-worker's wife was surprised to find a couple of yearlings following her back to her house, sniffing at the bag, after she'd been putting scoops out for her fox for a while. They all catch on quick.If my little furry friend keeps his distance, he has my sufferance. On my side of the drive, he hasn't bothered anything (although he's quite welcome to the young groundhog that's taken up residence under my shed).Now, as for my neighbor and his chickens, Mr Fox is on his own and taking his life in his own paws there.
Short of defending its kits (cubs) in its den, the only way a fox will attack a dog that is the same size or larger is if the fox is rabid. There is, of course, a very substantial chance that it is rabid.
The fox or the fag?
a cattledog-springer mix who is my partner's service assistant; a smooth collie-chessie(?) mix; and a collie-who-knows-what mix
I REALLY don't want to take the chance I might accidentally shoot one of them instead of a marauding fox or raccoon bent on running them out of "its" territory.
