Obama denies Poland missile vow

[TheSarge]

US President-elect Barack Obama has not given a commitment to go ahead with plans to build part of a US missile defence system in Poland, an aide says.

He was speaking after Polish President Lech Kaczynski's office said a pledge had been made during a phone conversation between the two men.

But Mr Obama's foreign policy adviser, Denis McDonough, denied this.

http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redstate/2008/nov/08/breaking-obama-aide-contradicts-polish-state/

[formerlurker]

See here is where it gets really really ugly.   Those of us who remember in crystal clear vision the systematic gutting of the military by the Clinton Administration know what is coming.

My husband is retiring in 2009.   Thank God. 

[TheSarge]

See here is where it gets really really ugly.   Those of us who remember in crystal clear vision the systematic gutting of the military by the Clinton Administration know what is coming.

My husband is retiring in 2009.   Thank God. 

If I was the leader of any country that has made any kind of deal with us for military cooperation...I'd be VERY nervous right now.

[Jim]

The zero is going to be making a boatload of enemies.


Biden wasn't kidding about how things he does will "seem wrong".

[RightCoast]

The zero is going to be making a boatload of enemies.


Biden wasn't kidding about how things he does will "seem wrong".

Unfortunatly seem is not the right word - Biden should have just said "...be wrong."

[Peter3_1]

I wonder how reenlistment committment for post-January 2009 is going? How is the Active Reserve doing? That would by my goal if I were  seperating the Active mil. next year,.

[Airwolf]

Starting to break his word already. He doesn't waste time.

[djones520]

Not even sworn in yet, and he's already calling friendly Heads of State a liar.  Yep...  that man is certainly a uniter.   

[RightCoast]

NATO? What's NATO? Israel? Never heard of them.

[Eupher]

See here is where it gets really really ugly.   Those of us who remember in crystal clear vision the systematic gutting of the military by the Clinton Administration know what is coming.

My husband is retiring in 2009.   Thank God. 

The "gutting" of the military was propagated by Congress, due to the Cold War being won, rather than Clinton.

Congress Critters

Don't get me wrong - any president whose No. 1 military agenda was putting and keeping openly-practicing gays in uniform is a moron of the first order.

But you can put that one pretty much on Congress, even the Republican-majority Congress after the 1994 elections.

If you wanna talk about gutting the military, let's talk Jimmah Carter. Curiously, however, I'm not talking money necessarily. In fact, this analysis maintains that defense spending increased under Carter - something like 4.7%

The Peanut Vendor

But the hollow military that fell out post-Vietnam most definitely can be put right on Ford (who didn't last long anyway, due to his pardoning Nixon) and Carter.

Sometimes attitude is more important than money.

Reagan put the lead back in the military's pencil, and you don't have to wrap that around $$ (though it helps).

[Chris_]

I wonder how reenlistment committment for post-January 2009 is going? How is the Active Reserve doing? That would by my goal if I were  seperating the Active mil. next year,.

the fuhrer will has his domestic army, the CNSF, to fall back on...

[DumbAss Tanker]

Many here, including me, predicted disastrous foreign relations, and on this particular point in fact.  Next in the batting order, Israel.

[formerlurker]

The "gutting" of the military was propagated by Congress, due to the Cold War being won, rather than Clinton.

Congress Critters

Don't get me wrong - any president whose No. 1 military agenda was putting and keeping openly-practicing gays in uniform is a moron of the first order.

But you can put that one pretty much on Congress, even the Republican-majority Congress after the 1994 elections.

If you wanna talk about gutting the military, let's talk Jimmah Carter. Curiously, however, I'm not talking money necessarily. In fact, this analysis maintains that defense spending increased under Carter - something like 4.7%

The Peanut Vendor

But the hollow military that fell out post-Vietnam most definitely can be put right on Ford (who didn't last long anyway, due to his pardoning Nixon) and Carter.

Sometimes attitude is more important than money.

Reagan put the lead back in the military's pencil, and you don't have to wrap that around $$ (though it helps).

Do not agree at all.  

I do recall the simultaneous cutting of military personnel, parts, aircraft carriers, weapon systems etc. while committing our military for his numerous "humanitarian" missions.   I recall my husband being stuck in some shithole halfway across the planet while awaiting parts for their plane to be canibalized from some unlucky squadron's flightline as there was just no extra parts to spare to send to fix it.   I recall squadron commanders -- good men -- ending their careers by standing down their flight crews because they were overtaxed on missions, planes weren't getting proper maintenance, crews were not getting critical training or crew rest -- it was a freakin disaster.   I remember the RIF/VSI to the point of hemorrage then the stop loss when Clinton Administration said "oops, my bad" when the USAF was crying uncle.  I remember the Army begging for tanks in Somalia and Les Aspin taking the fall because Clinton said no while dallying with young interns.  

I remember year after year Clinton -- while overtaxing his military -- submitting a defense budget that was woefully inadequate.   I watched that POS neglect the most powerful military in the world in refusing to modernize its weapon systems, aircraft and intel.   Every year I watched what he did to our military, and every year I cursed him for the total bastard he is.     When the spinmeisters claimed accolades for our military's performance after 9/11 by touting them as "Clinton's military", I couldn't stop throwing up.   My God, what that Administration did to our military is far far more than number crunching.  

I lived in his godawful state when he was Governor.  I can't believe to this day he was elected twice to be president.  

Some reading on this topic:

http://www.heritage.org/research/nationalsecurity/em467.cfm

http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/bu217.cfm

http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/bu242.cfm

http://www.heritage.org/research/nationalsecurity/fyi14.cfm

[Crazy Horse]

Lurker and Euph I think ya'll are both right on who's to blame.

The cold war was over and the drawdown was already underway when Clinton took over

[Thor]

Do not agree at all.  

I do recall the simultaneous cutting of military personnel, parts, aircraft carriers, weapon systems etc. while committing our military for his numerous "humanitarian" missions.   I recall my husband being stuck in some shithole halfway across the planet while awaiting parts for their plane to be canibalized from some unlucky squadron's flightline as there was just no extra parts to spare to send to fix it.   I recall squadron commanders -- good men -- ending their careers by standing down their flight crews because they were overtaxed on missions, planes weren't getting proper maintenance, crews were not getting critical training or crew rest -- it was a freakin disaster.   I remember the RIF/VSI to the point of hemorrage then the stop loss when Clinton Administration said "oops, my bad" when the USAF was crying uncle.  I remember the Army begging for tanks in Somalia and Les Aspin taking the fall because Clinton said no while dallying with young interns.  

I remember year after year Clinton -- while overtaxing his military -- submitting a defense budget that was woefully inadequate.   I watched that POS neglect the most powerful military in the world in refusing to modernize its weapon systems, aircraft and intel.   Every year I watched what he did to our military, and every year I cursed him for the total bastard he is.     When the spinmeisters claimed accolades for our military's performance after 9/11 by touting them as "Clinton's military", I couldn't stop throwing up.   My God, what that Administration did to our military is far far more than number crunching.  

I lived in his godawful state when he was Governor.  I can't believe to this day he was elected twice to be president.  

It doesn't appear that your husband was in the military when the peanut farmer was President. The ONLY time I've ever voted for a Dem was in 76. An Ex-Navy Nuke engineer that proved to be as lame as Bob Dole's sex life. Both Eupher & I were in the military during Carter's reign of impotency. Trust us, Carter was FAR worse than Clinton. SPINTAC (Special Interest Aircraft) weren't uncommon during the Carter years and the #1 reason was cannibalization of parts for other aircraft.

[formerlurker]

It doesn't appear that your husband was in the military when the peanut farmer was President. The ONLY time I've ever voted for a Dem was in 76. An Ex-Navy Nuke engineer that proved to be as lame as Bob Dole's sex life. Both Eupher & I were in the military during Carter's reign of impotency. Trust us, Carter was FAR worse than Clinton. SPINTAC (Special Interest Aircraft) weren't uncommon during the Carter years and the #1 reason was cannibalization of parts for other aircraft.

No he was in college (military academy). Four years of Carter was pretty darn bad, I will agree with you there.   However, 8 years of Clinton was also pretty damn bad.   

We now have a Jimmy Carter Jr. taking over during a time of war.   I think we will all agree that Obama will do far worse than Carter and Clinton did put together. 



Thanks again all you Barr voters, and to those who "stayed home."   You rock  <-- or is that what your heads are made out of?

[Peter3_1]

Clinton broke the back of the Navy by cutting it far and away more than anything in the so caLLED peace dividend permitted.

http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/usa/decom.htm

THIS LINK IS TO THE SHIPS DECOMMISSIONED  SINCE 1980. Check the ships pulled dUring the Clinton ADMIN, and remember 2 or three crews for each of these left the Navy at the same time. Draw your own conclusions.

[TheSarge]

Clinton broke the back of the Navy by cutting it far and away more than anything in the so caLLED peace dividend permitted.

http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/usa/decom.htm

THIS LINK IS TO THE SHIPS DECOMMISSIONED  SINCE 1980. Check the ships pulled dUring the Clinton ADMIN, and remember 2 or three crews for each of these left the Navy at the same time. Draw your own conclusions.

When Algore bragged in the 2000 election that when he had been put in charge of "re-inventing government"...he'd cut "400,000 jobs form the Federal payroll"...who do you think were the ones that had their jobs cut?*




















*I know you know...it's a rhetorical question

[Eupher]

Lurker and Euph I think ya'll are both right on who's to blame.

The cold war was over and the drawdown was already underway when Clinton took over

Exactly.

There's no doubt in my mind that Slick Willie was rubbing his hands with glee in that the very establishment that he hated - the military - was essentially drawing ITSELF down. All he had to do was sit back and take the credit (al Gore as well, of course).

Lurker, the Heritage Foundation links that you posted, while apropos, essentially call attention to a situation that was largely moot. Slick and his merry gang of thugs talked out of both sides of their mouths (sound familiar?) in saying "we can't cut Defense any further" just to cut again.

The dates of these links correspond to my last assignment in the Army before retirement. I am well aware of the issues that you've mentioned - the aircraft that couldn't fly because of spare parts problems, the people getting out in droves, and the rest of it. While we could probably quibble about numbers till the end of time, the larger perspective is that the Cold War was over/won and the first things on everybody's minds was cutting the size of the force. With the collapse of the Soviet Union in the early Nineties, maintaining that kind of combat force in Europe just didn't make sense, so that led to massive cuts post Desert Storm.

I spent almost 75% of my 20-year career in Europe, so I witnessed just how haphazardly and foolishly those cuts took place there.

But they happened not because of Clinton, but rather of decisions made during Bush I's administration.

I was one of tens of thousands who retired or got out early because of the ATTITUDE that Clinton's gang of thugs demonstrated. And it's my contention that, beyond money, the single attribute that Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, Airmen, and Coasties want to know is that their CinC at least demonstrates a MEASURE of support. Slick Willie failed to deliver on that score. Instead, it was clear to me and everybody else what that asshole's priorities were - allowing practicing gays to wear the uniform.

What a ****ing idiot. 

I have no doubt in my mind that Obama will preside over a military that will see its best and brightest go elsewhere - unless the economy stays ****ed, in which case, a lot of folks will stay in just to gut out Obama's "masterful" management of the very entity that he knows absolutely nothing about.

[Peter3_1]

Anything after 10/1993 and before 10/2001 was on Clinton.

[Crazy Horse]

Clinton broke the back of the Navy by cutting it far and away more than anything in the so caLLED peace dividend permitted.

http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/usa/decom.htm

THIS LINK IS TO THE SHIPS DECOMMISSIONED  SINCE 1980. Check the ships pulled dUring the Clinton ADMIN, and remember 2 or three crews for each of these left the Navy at the same time. Draw your own conclusions.

You are correct on that. When I was in the Navy in the 90's and being a Tender sailor..................we had on the US West coast seven , eight if you include Guam, Tenders. When I got out in1998 we had 1. The Dixon, jason, Cape Cod, Acadia, Gompers, Prairie and Proteus were all decomisioned, with the McKee follwing close after. Now there are only two in the entire Navy. One in Guam the Frank Cable and one in Italy the Emory S. Land.

These ships were floating shipyards with about 1,600 crewmen each. Npw they have to fly all kinds of people around the world to do the work that one of these ships provided.

Yeah I served under Bush 41 and Clinton until 1998. I saw what all went down with the Navy. Our middle name under Bush 41 was changed to cannibalize..............and they capitalized it under Clinton.