Chuck Manson & Bill Ayers? VICTIMS of the 60's that one "Could learn a lot from"

[asdf2231]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4179434

laststeamtrain  (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-06-08 03:23 PM
Original message
You know, one could probably learn a lot from Bill Ayers.
What the hell could you learn from five sleazoid pols?
 

cali  (1000+ posts)        Mon Oct-06-08 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Many people have learned a lot from Ayers
 He's a well regarded expert in early childhood ed, and his books and texts are widely used in colleges across the country.

On the other hand, I think John Glenn is more than simply a sleazoid politician.

samuraiguppy  (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-06-08 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. I consider Ayers a patriot.

   

DangerDave921 (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-06-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. So right 
 Bombing governmental buildings is so cool. (sarcasm)

The guy is a total tool. The wife too. Praising Charles Manson? That's just f'ed up.

Freeper troll!! 
 

NCevilDUer (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-06-08 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Under the right circumstances... nt

 

samuraiguppy  (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-06-08 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. protesting an evil imperialistic racist war?
 you bet your ass he was a patriot.

And don't bring Manson into this, another victim of the 60's..
a time when so many good people were trying to do their best to protest that evil war while cowardly CRIMINAL thugs like McJerk were off killing women and children.

And now the killers are called war heros---it makes me so ashamed

samuraiguppy  (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-06-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. as a student at one of the Ca
 state universities-I took a course on the 60's. My professor spent more than a week on Manson and brought up lots of good points about how brilliant and misunderstood he is.

But I realize this is not a popular viewpoint--and I do acknowledge that Manson is a convicted criminal. (although I have to point out that he did NOT personally hurt anyone and I definitely think he has served his debt to society and should be paroled--but that would be the subject of another thread).

My problem is that the really bad guys from the 60's (guys like McCain) are NOT in prison. I am sure that McCain killed many more people than Manson--innocent people. yet he is in the Senate. How can a person like him even think of running for president? He was a psycho killer. That is my point.

Bornaginhooligan (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-06-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. No.
 Do you consider George Washington an unpatriotic terrorist?

DangerDave921 (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-06-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. No I don't
 Are you going to tell me that Ayers is the equivalent of George Washington? Hold on, let me steady myself before I start laughing so hard I fall down.

Bornaginhooligan (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-06-08 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. OK, so you admit...
 There are good reasons and good excuses for blowing up government buildings.

So what argument again are you using against Ayers?

Raskolnik (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-06-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Do you think what Ayers did is admirable? n/t

Bornaginhooligan (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-06-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Well, let's see.
 He fought the Vietnam War, racism, social injustice, government corruption. He was a player in exposing COINTELPRO, for example.

We never would have learned the government was spying on the likes of John Lennon and Martin Luther King if it wasn't for Ayers and his Weather Underground associates.

Let me ask you, if Ayers had worn a uniform and killed Vietnamese or Iraqis, would you think he was a hero?

Raskolnik (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-06-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. You didn't answer the question.
He was a player in exposing COINTELPRO, for example.


No, he wasn't. The charges against him were dropped because of prosecutorial misconduct related to COINTELPRO.



We never would have learned the government was spying on the likes of John Lennon and Martin Luther King if it wasn't for Ayers and his Weather Underground associates.



Ayers had absolutely nothing personally to do with those revelations.



Let me ask you, if Ayers had worn a uniform and killed Vietnamese or Iraqis, would you think he was a hero?



I do not think that someone who serves in the armed forces is necessarily a "hero."



Now, I'll ask again: do you think William Ayers' actions were admirable?

Bornaginhooligan (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-06-08 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. I find him more admirable than you.

[Chris_]

samuraiguppy  (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-06-08 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. I consider Ayers a patriot.

And I consider you an idiot.  So what does that tell you about your opinion of the Terrorist scum, Ayers?

Go play, and let the adults talk now, asshat.

[jukin]

more proof that the DUmp is the Bizarro World based community.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Bomb Ayers

[Splashdown]

Run with this argument the next month, DUmmies...I beg you.

[PatriotGame]

samuraiguppy  (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-06-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
My problem is that the really bad guys from the 60's (guys like McCain) are NOT in prison. I am sure that McCain killed many more people than Manson--innocent people. yet he is in the Senate. How can a person like him even think of running for president? He was a psycho killer. That is my point.

For a minute there I thought you were talking about John F'ing Kerry.

[PatriotGame]

Bomb Ayers

Then throw him over the White House fence.

[GOBUCKS]

Then throw him over the White House fence.

That's okay. But please, do not throw him over the Golden Gate Bridge. TiTtyboy's heaps of medals have already created a hazard to navigation there.

[USA4ME]

Ayers hates America and loves communism.  Of course they admire him.

Defending Chas. Manson isn't odd for them either.  Remember, these are the smartest people alive and they understand things in depths the rest of us just can't.  The DUmmies consider Aldrich Ames, Earl Edwin Pitts, and Robert Hanssen to be agents of good.

.

[asdf2231]

NCevilDUer (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-06-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. Ayers' act was more like the Boston Tea Party -
 no intent to overthrow the government, but destruction of property to make an undeniable political point ('undeniable' meaning, one that could not be ignored). Nobody was injured, but there was considerable property damage. As with the BTP, it was meant to get the attention of an unresponsive government, and as with the BTP there were many, many people who thought the action undermined the 'serious' work that others were doing with their petitions and appeals for redress.

The Weathermen were the ****ing Sons of Liberty. Ayers = Paul Revere.

NCevilDUer (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-06-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
40. Manson was a victim of his upbringing, not of the 60s.
 Abused as a child, if anyone was ever born to be a criminal, it was he. And though he did not directly murder anyone in the Tate/LaBianca murders, there were at least 3 of his followers who 'disappeared' into the desert - and he was happy to let his followers believe he had killed them for being disloyal. He took damaged kids and exercised surprisingly sophisticated brainwashing techniques with them, using drugs and strongly qualified 'affection' - meaning, the threat of removing that affection was always a threat, which made them willing to do almost anything to keep that 'affection'. In another time and place, he could have been a Hitler.

That said, there's a world of difference between Ayers, who was acting (misguidedly, perhaps) out of an honest passion to stop the war - who, in fact, was never convicted of any crime, and never injured anyone with the bombings he was involved with - and McCain who DID follow orders and bomb unknown numbers of women and children in his bombing raids in support of a war that should have never been fought.

DangerDave921 (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-06-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Great
 You took a course on the 1960's and listened to some ivory tower guy lecture about how cool Charlie Manson was. Spare me the details about how brilliant he was. The guy needs to stay in prison till he is dead.

Of course he personally hurt people. He actually planned the whole thing to butcher those people. He organized it, formulated the plan, instructed his followers what to do. Under the law, that is the same thing as actually holding the knife.

Please grow up and acknowledge evil and murder when you see it. Otherwise you lose all credibility.

samuraiguppy  (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-06-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. hmmm I was told that his main crime was
 questioning the norms of society. Have to admit that I was not around at that time....the professor who taught the course is an acknowledged expert on the 60's. I won't put his name out here--but the school was Chico State about 10 years ago.

We wrote an essay on the brilliance of Manson....still have mine....

 

[GOBUCKS]

14. as a student at one of the Ca
 state universities-I took a course on the 60's. My professor spent more than a week on Manson and brought up lots of good points about how brilliant and misunderstood he is.

Is anyone surprised? To pay for this, and other far-left weirdo policies, the rino governator says the American taxpayers now need to bail out the California budget.

One might hope that before that happens, the Almighty will send the Big One, which he has been holding in reserve, to dump the whole left hand edge of that cesspool state into the sea.

Of course, one would not wish so much ill on so many people.

[Chris_]

The Weathermen were the ****ing Sons of Liberty. Ayers = Paul Revere.

I've seen some really, really unbelievable stupid things on there, but that just took the cake, That was beyond stupid.

[Crazy Horse]

To equate the sons of liberty to the ****ING weather underground........and Ayres as the 60's Paul Revere.........they are ****ing delusional anti american pieces of shit.

IDJITS..............the one and all of em

[Chris_]

To equate the sons of liberty to the ****ING weather underground........and Ayres as the 60's Paul Revere.........they are ****ing delusional anti american pieces of shit.

IDJITS..............the one and all of em

H5 for explaining it better than I did.

[Chris_]

From Manson you could learn how to get stupid bimbos to do what you want.
From Ayers you could learn bomb making and sucking up to democrat politicians for fun and profit.

[Splashdown]

At least Ayers wasn't a very good terrorist. His bombs weren't even effective. /DU mode.

[mamacags]

Manson is* incredibly brilliant, however he is also incredibly insane.  I did my college research paper on him because I found him very interesting.  I don't find him admirable at all.  He could be likened to Jim Jones, David Koresh, L. Ron Hubbard as a religious group leader who thought himself god and then destroyed as many lives as his evil little soul could.

* I don't know if he still is brilliant or if the insanity rotted out his brain.  However, if I said "was" then it would sound like he is dead.