Please Help (Onondaga Nation)

[ScubaGuy]

Linkey thingey

Nothing significant in the OP.  Something about an Indian tribe, taxes and the State of New York.

Hello, DUers:

I am writing this to ask for your support for the Onondaga Nation. The Onondaga are the "Fire Keepers" of the Haudenosaunee, or Six Nations Iroquois Confederacy. At issue is an attempt by the NYS legislature to collect taxes from the Onondaga. We need people from across the United States to contact Governor David Patterson’s office, and encourage him to honor Onondaga sovereignty.

The issue involves a bill, passed by both houses of the state legislature, which would attempt to collect taxes from the Onondaga Smoke Shop. Certainly, many people are opposed to smoking. However, our focus is on sovereignty.

At this point, Governor Patterson seems to understand the significance of the history between Onondaga, the United States, and New York: "I would like to at least begin by going up and having a conversation. Now, if it’s just, ‘We do it because we feel like it, and there’s nothing you can do about it, get out of here,’ well, that might create a different reaction," Paterson said in an interview with The Buffalo News.

In the interview, Paterson said he wants to treat talks with Indian leaders "almost like international diplomacy." He said he wants to reach an "accommodation" with the tribes on the tax issue; he did not say precisely what that may entail.

Paterson offered warm words for the Indians. "I think that they feel that they are always labeled as the villains in this whole process, and maybe if they were treated or thought to be just like other businesses here and they started to feel like they’re part of our state, even if they live on sacred land, that we might be able to reach an accommodation," the governor said. (Buffalo News; 8-21-08)

Joseph Heath, the attorney who has represented Onondaga in other cases with NYS, has provided the following suggestions for those writing, e-mailing, or calling Governor Patterson:

SUGGESTED TALKING POINTS FOR LETTERS TO GOVERNOR ON CIGARETTE TAXES ON ONONDAGA NATION:

1. This is much too complex a situation, with such a long history; no such bill should be signed until the Governor has been able to sit down with the Traditional Chiefs and talk about other solutions.

2. These taxing attempts are in violation of the Nation’s sovereignty and its federal treaty rights. For instance, Article II of the 1794 Treaty of Canandaigua, guarantees the Onondagas the "free use and enjoyment" of their remaining Territory.

3. Taxing the sales on the Onondaga Nation will result in a net loss of tax revenues for the state, given the facts that:

{a} All of the profits from the one, Nation owned store, go to the Nation’s government which:

{b} Funds dozens of programs that benefit the Onondaga people and their non-Native neighbors, and which

{c} Employs hundreds of Onondaga Nation citizens in these programs, who then spend these wages outside the Nation, thereby generating a ripple effect of tax generation.

4. There is only one, Nation owned store at Onondaga, with:

{a} No gas stations;

{b} No internet sale;

{c} No casino or gambling revenues; and 4. Prices that are not that much lower than non-Native stores.

5. Honoring the sovereignty and the Treaties and not taxing these sales should be seen as an economic stimulus package for the Central NY economy, very similar to the Empire Zones and the tax breaks enjoyed by Robert Congel, O’Brien & Gere and the new downtown Marriott hotel.

6. This current bill is yet another attempt by the Legislature, to tack onto the current tax bill that can not be enforced, due to an injunction from State Supreme Court in Buffalo. It is likely that this new bill may not achieve anything and will be barred by the same injunction.

7. There is a very long history of the state attempting to tax these sales, which should be thoroughly understood before any decision. 8. The Onondaga worked for a year and a half in 1996 and 1997, with the Pataki administration and reached an Agreement to resolve this issue. 9. Diplomacy and respecting the Nation’s sovereignty are the proper approaches.

8. The estimates of tax revenues are grossly over-inflated by the convenience store lobby and the Upstate, Republican legislators who promote it.

Governor Patterson’s address is:
Governor David Patterson, State Capitol, Albany, NY 12224.

The phone number is: 518-474-8390

The following link allows for e-mail:

http://www.state.ny.us/governor/contact/index.html


Please send copies (or verification of a phone call) to Attorney Heath, at:
Joe Heath <jheath@atsny.com >.


Thank you,
H2O Man

This is the funny part.

Dogtown  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Wed Sep-17-08 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. And thanks, H2O Man, for bringing it back on course.
   
The issue in the thread is that a republican governer is trying to steal even more from a people that have been crushed by the White Man's Burden

iamahaingttta  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Wed Sep-17-08 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
36. New York's governor is a Democrat
   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Paterson

Nice try, though!

Dogtown  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Wed Sep-17-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Thank you for picking that nit
   
Edited on Wed Sep-17-08 04:03 PM by Dogtown
It was itching. Down there.

I'll rephrase. Just for you:

The issue in the thread is that an asshole DEMOCRAT Governor is trying to steal even more from a people that have been crushed by the White Man's Burden.

Yes, there ARE racists in both parties. Let's not focus on insignificant details: White people tried to destroy red people and they are still trying. I certainly did not intend to let some one dilute the OP by my assumption. So, can we get back on point, now?

sunnystarr  (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Wed Sep-17-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. let me pick another nit rofl ... Patterson is black ..... (nt)

 

[Tucker]

That's too funny. Ole Dogtown is having a bad night.

[Carl]

 


Still though,he/she is about as intelligent and informed as the average DUmmy.

[BlueStateSaint]

Still though,he/she is about as intelligent and informed as the average DUmmy.

Carl, have you heard their commercials lately on the radio?  Pathetic.

[VelvetElvis]

That's too funny. Ole Dogtown is having a bad night.

What's a shame is, Dogtown's vote counts precisely as much as yours or mine. 

[asdf2231]

BFD if the Indians are a "Sovereign Nation".

TANSTAAFL.

[BannedFromDU]

BFD if the Indians are a "Sovereign Nation".

TANSTAAFL.

     If they don't want to be taxed, then stay the **** on the reservation.

[mamacags]

   The stupid is funny!

[thundley4]

BFD if the Indians are a "Sovereign Nation".

TANSTAAFL.

     If they don't want to be taxed, then stay the **** on the reservation.

What the Tribe is protesting against is that new York wants to start taxing cigarettes sold ON the reservation.. The state is losing tons of tax revenues, because people are buying the smokes on the reservations and avoiding the sky-high state tax on tobacco.

[BannedFromDU]

What the Tribe is protesting against is that new York wants to start taxing cigarettes sold ON the reservation.. The state is losing tons of tax revenues, because people are buying the smokes on the reservations and avoiding the sky-high state tax on tobacco.

     Got it. If all that money belongs to them, then they should BE a nation, from soup to nuts. Any idiot can have a casino and a smoke shop. It takes a real society to have roads, hospitals, schools, emergency services, utilities, and so on. If they're a "nation," then they can behave like one.

[Lord Undies]

What the Tribe is protesting against is that new York wants to start taxing cigarettes sold ON the reservation.. The state is losing tons of tax revenues, because people are buying the smokes on the reservations and avoiding the sky-high state tax on tobacco.

It is impossible to lose what you never had.  Instead of the tribe having to come to grips with the taxation, why can't the state come to grips with the limited amount that will be collected off the reservation?  

The idea of these ridiculously enormous cigarette taxes is to stop the sale of cigarettes, so the state is trying to defeat itself anyway.  It expects and hopes cigarette tax revenue goes down.  That means the state should have no expectations, so what they are not collecting should not interfer with whatever plans the state has in place regarding revenue projections.  

[thundley4]

I don't think cigarette taxes have anything to do with getting people to quit.  If that was the case, they could just ban the sale or possession of tobacco.

[Lord Undies]

I don't think cigarette taxes have anything to do with getting people to quit.  If that was the case, they could just ban the sale or possession of tobacco.

You'd be wrong about that.  These $1 - $1.50 tax increases on cigarettes are a "sin" tax designed to encourage the over-the-counter price of cigarettes to be too large a price to pay.  The poor, women, and minorities are hardest hit, but that's the idea.

The dollar increase in the cigarette tax in Texas was touted as a pro-health issue.  I don't think it can get any more blatant than that.

[thundley4]

I don't think cigarette taxes have anything to do with getting people to quit.  If that was the case, they could just ban the sale or possession of tobacco.

You'd be wrong about that.  These $1 - $1.50 tax increases on cigarettes are a "sin" tax designed to encourage the over-the-counter price of cigarettes to be too large a price to pay.  The poor, women, and minorities are hardest hit, but that's the idea.

The dollar increase in the cigarette tax in Texas was touted as a pro-health issue.  I don't think it can get any more blatant than that.

They tout it that way, and it does force some people to quit or cut back, but at the same time every tax increase boosts their state revenue.  Me, I just have a route driver at work pick me up a carton every week out of state.

[JohnnyReb]

If the DUmmies had just an inkling of what the US government spends on freebies for non-tax paying indian reservations, they'd all suddenly discover they had some native american blood in themselves and move to the reservation. It is another sovereign nation you know, in OTW's, NOT in the US of A persay.

Keep that under your hat, I'd rather they move to france.

[BlueStateSaint]

Instead of the tribe having to come to grips with the taxation, why can't the state come to grips with the limited amount that will be collected off the reservation?

Because it's Noo Yawk State we're talking about here.  Not rocket scientists by any stretch of the imagination.