I got a jury summons.

[CC27]

Jeebo (2,302 posts)

I got a jury summons.

I got it on October 26. I have not answered it. I have not even opened the envelope. A follow-up summons came in the mail two days ago, on Friday. I haven't opened it either. I am like an ostrich with its head stuck in the sand. I dread what's in those envelopes so much that I just cannot bring myself to open them.

Why do I dread jury service so much? Several reasons. This will be a long post because I want to explain thoroughly how I feel about this subject.

First is the pay. The judge gets $180 grand a year, with benefits. Some of the lawyers get hundreds of dollars an hour. The court reporter and bailiff get solid middle-class salaries, with benefits. What do the jurors get? Six dollars a day. Not six dollars an hour, which also would be a pathetically sub-standard wage, but six dollars a DAY. That "wage" is a profound insult. I want very badly to simply refuse to respond to the summons because I refuse to work for six dollars a day, but if I do that, will the judge cite me for contempt of court? If this happens, the contempt will be coming from the court and judge, because what could be more contemptuous than requiring somebody to work for six dollars a DAY under threat of legal penalties if you refuse? I claim autonomy over my body, over my time, and over the fruits of my labors. What jurors do in a courtroom is just as important as what the judge and lawyers and court reporter and bailiff do, so why aren't jurors paid a decent salary? I don't expect to get hundreds of dollars an hour like some of the lawyers do, but I do expect a reasonable wage, 150 percent of minimum wage, let's say. I think minimum wage here in Missouri is about $12 an hour, so I would expect $18 an hour. That would be a reasonable rate of pay for what amounts to a part-time temporary job. Please don't say "Jury duty is not a job, but a civic duty." It is a civic duty, but it is also a job, and they shouldn't be able to get away with paying chickenshit wages by just calling the job something else. Why is juror pay so ridiculous? I tried to Google up some info about this, but I didn't try very hard. I suspect those rates were set way back when six dollars a day was a reasonable wage. How long ago was that? I RESENT being expected to do this job for $6 a DAY. I resent it BITTERLy.

Second is that oath they make you take. I would have no objection to the oath if it weren't for the last four words, "... so help you God". Those words SHOULD NOT be a part of that oath. What the hell do they even mean? Whose god is being invoked? Hindu? Muslim? Jewish? Catholic? Protestant? Old Testament? New Testament? And what role is that god being expected to play in those proceedings? Doesn't God give us all free will to decide for ourselves whether we're going to tell the truth? And didn't Jesus tell us to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's? Those four words tacked unnecessarily onto the end of that oath are an attempt to render unto God that which is Caesar's. If I object to that oath because of those last four words, will I get cited for contempt because I refuse to take the oath? If they have an alternate oath they give to non-believers, I still will be calling attention to my religious beliefs by objecting and other people in the courtroom will start wondering if I'm an atheist or something. Some of them might even ask me about it. Which shows why those four words should not be a part of that oath. If I have to swear to that oath, I will resent it. I will resent it BITTERLY.

Third is having to get up so early in the morning. I AM NOT a day person. They will require jurors to be there at 8 a.m. Keeping those hours will make me MISERABLE. I never was able to get my parents to admit it, but I've always thought that I must be descended from vampires. Go to bed earlier and get up earlier? That won't work because I won't be able to sleep going to bed that early, and also just because it will just feel WRONG being in bed at 9 p.m. or being up before 8 a.m. I worked for 45 years for a morning newspaper (retired now), which means I worked nights, which was perfect for my night-owl disposition. If I have to go and sit in that jury box at 8 a.m. and stay there for several hours, I won't be able to stay awake, and it might even make me physically ill. And I will resent being forced to keep those hours.

Fourth is my awareness that judges and lawyers keep a lot of information away from juries. There was a case in February 2003 involving a man named Ed Rosenthal who was growing medicinal marijuana under the auspices of the Oakland, California, city government. He was convicted in a federal courthouse in Oakland, after the judge would not let Mr. Rosenthal's defense attorneys tell the jury why he was growing that marijuana, or that it was in cooperation with the city of Oakland. After Mr. Rosenthal was convicted, five members of the jury were very angry when they learned those facts that had been kept carefully hidden from them. Those jurors petitioned the judge to be able to change their verdict. They demonstrated at the courthouse and attended subsequent court appearances with Mr. Rosenthal, offering him support. I have heard of other cases in which jurors regretted their verdict when they learned after the trial of information that had been kept from them. I decided when I heard about Mr. Rosenthal's case, and other similar cases since then, that if I ever sit on a jury, I WILL NOT be in the position that those regretful jurors were in. So during the trial, I will be aware that there is information that is being kept from me, that I am not being allowed to consider or even to be aware of, and that that hidden information very likely will have an effect on the verdict I will render. And that uncertainty about that "known unknown" (to borrow a phrase from Donald Rumsfeld) will constitute a reasonable doubt in my mind. And that reasonable doubt will be a reason for me to render a verdict of "not guilty". I will, in fact, render a "not guilty" verdict in almost any trial in which I am a juror. There are a few exceptions. I would have convicted O.J. Simpson, for example. I would have convicted Kyle Rittenhouse. I would have convicted George Zimmerman. There was a guy in Wisconsin some years back whose defense at his rape trial was that the victim asked him to use a condom, and that constituted consent. I thought when I heard that lame excuse that if this is the best defense this guy can come up with, he really IS guilty. But in almost any case, I would be a really hard sell for any prosecutor. Defense attorneys would love to have me in their jury, but prosecutors would move heaven to keep me off the jury.

I'm not going to include a link to the Ed Rosenthal case, but if y'all want to read about it, Google Rosenthal Oakland marijuana trial and I'm sure it will come up.

For now, though, I'm really worried that some cops are going to show up at my door to haul me off to court to face a contempt citation because I haven't responded to those summonses, and I'm soliciting y'all's suggestions, especially from those of you who are lawyers or judges. Or have some other courtroom experience, because I have none.

-- Ron

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10182107607

All this over a jury summons????

[DefiantSix]

Hell, I look forward to Jury summons'. All I have to do is answer 2-3 questions and all of a sudden I'm the worst possible juror for everybody - the DA, the Defense attorney and the judge alike.

[jukin]

Hell, I look forward to Jury summons'. All I have to do is answer 2-3 questions and all of a sudden I'm the worst possible juror for everybody - the DA, the Defense attorney and the judge alike.

HI5!

Me too. They don't want somebody with reason and logic on a jury.

[SVPete]

Is it oxymoronic of me to hope DU-Denizens don't serve on juries and hope Jeebo serves time for contempt of court for ignoring this jury duty summons?

[FlippyDoo]

Hell, I look forward to Jury summons'. All I have to do is answer 2-3 questions and all of a sudden I'm the worst possible juror for everybody - the DA, the Defense attorney and the judge alike.

It's the same with me. There was one that apparently all they needed to hear was my country drawl. It was in federal court against a black guy. I don't know if they thought that since I sounded like Jethro Bodine's more hickish cousin that I'd be racist or what, but after I gave my name, occupation, and address, they told me that I could leave.

[BannedFromDU]

All this over a jury summons????

     The smell alone would get him excused for jury service. In any case, I don't want an asshole like that on a jury anyway - that's why people like Derek Chauvin are in prison. **** you and stay home, DUmmy.

[DUmpDiver]

TLDR of the week.

[DefiantSix]

It's the same with me. There was one that apparently all they needed to hear was my country drawl. It was in federal court against a black guy. I don't know if they thought that since I sounded like Jethro Bodine's more hickish cousin that I'd be racist or what, but after I gave my name, occupation, and address, they told me that I could leave.

I only see a summons every 4 - 5 years or so, nowadays (I suspect the judge's notes go into my "permanent record", and that's why they don't even bother anymore.)

It's become something of a game for me now: how far can I go in the process without actually committing purjury, before I get dismissed. My record is the 4th round of dismissals; 2nd round is more typical for me. Usually it's my profession - I'm a mechanical engineer - that knocks me out: apparently being able to spot when a process "stops flowing" is, to attornies, like showing a crucifix to a vampire.

[FlippyDoo]

I only see a summons every 4 - 5 years or so, nowadays (I suspect the judge's notes go into my "permanent record", and that's why they don't even bother anymore.)

It's become something of a game for me now: how far can I go in the process without actually committing purjury, before I get dismissed. My record is the 4th round of dismissals; 2nd round is more typical for me. Usually it's my profession - I'm a mechanical engineer - that knocks me out: apparently being able to spot when a process "stops flowing" is, to attornies, like showing a crucifix to a vampire.

The last one I went to was about 6 years ago. After the instruction/speech deal, they went around to each potential juror to give the normal (name, occupation, age, etc), but this time they also wanted to know your spouse's name and occupation. My wife is who keeps my schedule and things like that so when they got to me I gave her name along with "and her occupation is being my boss". The judge chuckled and said, "at least this one's honest". I figured I would get picked for that one, but I was among the first group released.

[Airwolf]

I'm 65.  in all the years since I was able to get picked, I have only had one summons top go to be on a jury. They had to let it go when they found out I was in the National Guard at the time and up for possible deployment overseas. Don't know why the DUmmie is crying about it. It's not like they are putting them on trial.

[DefiantSix]

...Don't know why the DUmmie is crying about it. It's not like they are putting them on trial.

But ...but ...but: I was promised that jury selection was overseen by Mel Brooks. [/sarc]

[67 Rover]

Third is having to get up so early in the morning. I AM NOT a day person. They will require jurors to be there at 8 a.m. Keeping those hours will make me MISERABLE.

There was a case in February 2003 involving a man named Ed Rosenthal who was growing medicinal marijuana

Tell me your a loser pothead without telling me your a loser pothead. 

Not once have I been compensated for being on a jury.

[FunkyZero]

Tell me your a loser pothead without telling me your a loser pothead. 

Not once have I been compensated for being on a jury.

same here. i never check the box. im not in the mood to deal with a 20 dollar check and i'm already pi**ed off that I'm downtown that early in the morning when i have other stuff to get done. i swear i get one of those in the mail every 2 years almost on the mark. the crap gets really old man. last couple of times ive been able to get out of it by using the covid essential worker flag. i'll do it because i'm supposed to, but not if i can get out of it legit

[67 Rover]

same here. i never check the box. im not in the mood to deal with a 20 dollar check and i'm already pi**ed off that I'm downtown that early in the morning when i have other stuff to get done. i swear i get one of those in the mail every 2 years almost on the mark. the crap gets really old man. last couple of times ive been able to get out of it by using the covid essential worker flag. i'll do it because i'm supposed to, but not if i can get out of it legit

Also not like this loser will need to notify work that they will be absent for a day, first of the month is coming fast.

[Happy Fun Ball]

Let's see if I can remember all of this...

It was late 2022. I got a jury summons that said to expect a phone call in a few days if I was chosen by lot. Otherwise, if no call on that day, you can ignore it.

The call did in fact come and it gave me instructions to go to a certain place at a certain time with a copy of the summons.

The day came and I was one of about 32 prospects (not including the 2 or 3 that did not show up). They had us fill out some forms and answer a few basic questions before we were moved to a courtroom.

There, they asked more specific questions like "Do you know or are related to either the plaintiff, the defendant, the judge, or any lawyer on either side?", or "Do you know anything about the case?" in order to whittle us down further. After all of the questions were asked, about half of us were disqualified.

The final phase was another drawing by lot in order to choose the 12.

After this, the trial began. It was a case about nonpayment for some of those ridiculous N95 masks (this was right before the Supreme Court ruled that we couldn't be forced to take the so-called vaccine), and the other side refusing to pay because they thought they were defective. 3 or 4 days went by, and we each got our choice of Jimmy Johns subs (I always chose the italian). After a few days, it got to be a little lighthearted joke, but we did enjoy the free lunch. It was roughly the same hours as a typical work day, getting out around 5 or so.

The case ended, and we're sequestered for the rest of the day (it was shortened because the case finished late in the day) and then the next. I forgot what we all decided, but it was a fairly substantial penalty for one side. After it was all over, we left, never to return and I got a fairly decent check in the mail a few days later. Certainly a lot more than the $6 a day that this guy said he was going to get. Who is he...Al Bundy?

I'd say it was worth the inconvenience. My job excused my abscence for obvious reasons, I got free food, I got to see how a not-Night Court court case operates, I still got paid, and I won't get another jury summons for quite a while, if ever again.

[FlippyDoo]

I do remember one interesting incident on that federal case that I got called for jury duty on. At the very start, when it was asked if anyone thought that they may have a reason as to why they could not serve on jury duty, one older lady raised her hand. When the judged called on her, she told him that her daughter was one of the cops who had arrested the defendant. Naturally, she was the first one that they allowed to go.