Author Topic: Is election denial ever acceptable?  (Read 1213 times)

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Offline Mary Ann

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Is election denial ever acceptable?
« on: November 12, 2022, 08:57:22 AM »
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217357193
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brooklynite (82,704 posts)


Andrew Gillum legal team demands court hearing, citing Donald Trump rant on Ron DeSantis

Tallahasee Democrat

Former President Donald Trump's post-election screed labeling Florida's governor "Ron DeSanctimonious" didn't go unnoticed by Andrew Gillum or his Miami lawyers.

Trump, in a statement Thursday timed after the election and before his anticipated announcement of a third White House bid, credited himself for Gov. Ron DeSantis' victory in the 2018 governor's race, when he narrowly defeated Gillum.

In addition to saying he helped "fix" DeSantis' campaign after it had "completely fallen apart," Trump said he also got the feds to intervene "when votes were being stolen" in Broward County.

David Markus and Katherine Miller, who are representing Gillum on federal public corruption charges involving donations to his gubernatorial campaign, didn't fire back at insults Trump hurled at Tallahassee's former mayor.

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Star Member mcar (39,979 posts)

2. Good

That election never made sense to me. 70+% of voters voted for a constitutional amendment to allow returning citizens/formerly incarcerated to regain voting rights, but they also voted for DeathSantis and Scott?
This conspiracy theorist is denying the results of an election!
(Actually, Florida dodged a huge bullet in 2018.)

Offline SVPete

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2022, 09:05:25 AM »
Gillum LOST because he proved to Floridians that he was personally corrupt and too inept to be governor. Using 20-20 hindsight from 4 years later, Gillum would have destroyed Florida's tourist economy with Covid shutdowns in 2020 and 2021.

But of course, DU has Election Denial as its foundation, so facts don't matter.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline ADsOutburst

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2022, 10:43:15 AM »
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In addition to saying he helped "fix" DeSantis' campaign after it had "completely fallen apart,"


Means nothing.

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Trump said he also got the feds to intervene "when votes were being stolen" in Broward County.

Which means... what? Did Gillum's campaign know about it? Why didn't they raise the issue then?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2022, 11:00:31 AM by ADsOutburst »

Offline SVPete

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2022, 11:12:11 AM »
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... Trump said he also got the feds to intervene "when votes were being stolen" in Broward County.

I doubt many/any DU-members would remember it - though brooklynite should - but Broward County's election officials may, at the time, have been the most corrupt and incompetent in all of Florida (or maybe the whole SE US?). The whole "Hanging Chad" debacle in 2000 was because the #%@# in charge had failed, for multiple election cycles, to have chads emptied out of the voting machines.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline Old n Grumpy

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2022, 12:17:28 PM »
Andrew Gillum Needs to get back in bed with his meth and and man friend
Life is tough and it’s even tougher when you’re stupid

Basking in the glow of my white Privilege, while I water the Begonias with liberal tears!

I will give up my guns when the liberals give up their illegal aliens

We need a Bull Shit tax to make the Democrats go broke!

Offline DUmpsterDiver

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2022, 02:04:18 AM »
The DUpcrap and other retards of the left denied the elections of 2000, 2004, 2016 and all those before thy lost.  ESAD democrat scum.  Do not dare come looking for warmth.  GFYS. 

Offline landofconfusion80

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2022, 06:31:45 AM »
This is too complex an issue for us, guys. We really need to consult Stacy Abrams on the matter.
One Who Grows (244 posts)
20. absolute bullshit. the cave is unspeakably vile.

I don't know how any of you can live with yourselves.

:)

Offline Muddling 2

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2022, 07:36:56 AM »


Means nothing.

Which means... what? Did Gillum's campaign know about it? Why didn't they raise the issue then?

Anyone surprised Trump wanted to 'self-promote' and claim to have rescued DeSantis' campaign?

Voted for him in '16 and 20, but lately , IMO, he's been more of a distraction than asset.

Just my .02
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Offline Mary Ann

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2022, 07:46:07 AM »
Anyone surprised Trump wanted to 'self-promote' and claim to have rescued DeSantis' campaign?

Voted for him in '16 and 20, but lately , IMO, he's been more of a distraction than asset.

Just my .02
Trump did good things as POTUS, but he has always gotten in his own way, making unforced errors. We need a candidate who can do the things Trump did, but with way more finesse. I'm on Team Ron.

Offline CollectivismMustDie

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2022, 08:01:04 AM »
Trump did good things as POTUS, but he has always gotten in his own way, making unforced errors. We need a candidate who can do the things Trump did, but with way more finesse. I'm on Team Ron.

Team ron, is team ryan, team mcconnell, team mcdaniel, team mccarthy, team gopestablishment.

I don't like saying it anymore than anyone else likes hearing it. But it's a fact.
"Be not intimidated... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." - John Adams

Hillary Clinton will never be the President of the United States.

Offline Muddling 2

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2022, 08:35:14 AM »
Team ron, is team ryan, team mcconnell, team mcdaniel, team mccarthy, team gopestablishment.

I don't like saying it anymore than anyone else likes hearing it. But it's a fact.

Clearly, an established Party is of great use when conducting a campaign.  I can only wonder how NY and MI may have turned out if the Republicans had a bigger footprint in both states.  Trying to gin up an "ad hoc" apparatus when a rising star appears is no substitute for established machinery. 
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein

Offline CollectivismMustDie

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2022, 08:56:16 AM »
Clearly, an established Party is of great use when conducting a campaign.  I can only wonder how NY and MI may have turned out if the Republicans had a bigger footprint in both states.  Trying to gin up an "ad hoc" apparatus when a rising star appears is no substitute for established machinery.

That's true, but when the machinery is globalist, and you are MAGA/America first, they aren't your ally.

The 'machinery' controlled by the 3 Mcs hurt maga candidates this cycle by denying them funding in places like alaska for example.

And that same establishment is behind both the funding and the forwarding of desantis. They intend for desantis to play the same role as romney and mccain before him.

Accept no substitutes for MAGA/America First...and believe you me, they're pushing them hard, and will be pushing them much harder in the days to come.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2022, 09:00:13 AM by CollectivismMustDie »
"Be not intimidated... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." - John Adams

Hillary Clinton will never be the President of the United States.

Offline Ralph Wiggum

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2022, 09:28:36 AM »
Team ron, is team ryan, team mcconnell, team mcdaniel, team mccarthy, team gopestablishment.

I don't like saying it anymore than anyone else likes hearing it. But it's a fact.

Do you have some evidence that DeSantis will be a milquetoast RINO in the vein of Paul Ryan, Willard "Mitt" Romney, or John McCain? I haven't read or heard a thing which suggests that is the case.

I'm willing to listen to whatever argument you have as support for such a claim.

And not bashing you: we're all on the same team. :cheersmate:
Voted hottest "chick" at CU - My hotness transcends gender


Offline CollectivismMustDie

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2022, 09:41:08 AM »
Do you have some evidence that DeSantis will be a milquetoast RINO in the vein of Paul Ryan, Willard "Mitt" Romney, or John McCain? I haven't read or heard a thing which suggests that is the case.

I'm willing to listen to whatever argument you have as support for such a claim.

And not bashing you: we're all on the same team. :cheersmate:

No offense taken, Chief. You're right, we are all on the same team here.

His endorsement by ryan is a big indicator. His funding by the same globalist/establishment types is a big indicator.

This pretty much sums up where we are now:

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/11/11/its-the-big-ugly-and-were-here-for-it/
"Be not intimidated... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." - John Adams

Hillary Clinton will never be the President of the United States.

Offline CollectivismMustDie

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2022, 09:48:35 AM »
Do you have some evidence that DeSantis will be a milquetoast RINO in the vein of Paul Ryan, Willard "Mitt" Romney, or John McCain? I haven't read or heard a thing which suggests that is the case.

I'm willing to listen to whatever argument you have as support for such a claim.

And not bashing you: we're all on the same team. :cheersmate:

See here also:

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/11/06/desantis-megadonor-billionaire-head-of-citadel-investments-ken-griffin-explains-why-he-purchased-ron-desantis-for-2024-and-what-he-expects-from-his-investment/
"Be not intimidated... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." - John Adams

Hillary Clinton will never be the President of the United States.

Offline Mary Ann

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2022, 10:02:34 AM »
DeSantis stood up to the establishment regarding vaccine manadates and lockdowns. He stood up to one of the state's largest employers, regarding wokism. He stood up to the education establishment when it came to protecting children against classroom groomers. He fired a DA who wouldn't enforce the law.

I watched a press conference when some reporter tried a "gotcha question," and DeSantis calmly tore her apart with facts. Didn't scream, "You're fake news!" or call her a name.

He trolled Biden by holding an event at a place called Brandon Toyota, in Brandon, FL. I can't wait for him to debate the senile old fool.

If, and it's a big if, Trump gets the nomination, and if (bigger if) he wins the election, he could only serve four years. DeSantis could serve eight.

I don't care who endorses DeSantis, or who he gets funds from. He needs BOTH, and would be foolish to turn anything down at this point.

Offline ADsOutburst

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2022, 11:19:34 AM »
If, and it's a big if, Trump gets the nomination, and if (bigger if) he wins the election, he could only serve four years. DeSantis could serve eight.

I've been pondering this myself. So, suppose Trump wins 2024. Then what? He won't be around forever.

Offline CollectivismMustDie

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2022, 12:03:07 PM »
DeSantis stood up to the establishment regarding vaccine manadates and lockdowns. He stood up to one of the state's largest employers, regarding wokism. He stood up to the education establishment when it came to protecting children against classroom groomers. He fired a DA who wouldn't enforce the law.

Indeed that is true, however, those things do not equate to economic nationalism. And that does not mean his actions will mirror those things at the national level. To say otherwise is placing hopeful speculation over a known promise keeper who has proven that He will put America first by his actions doing so in his first term. That isn't opinion, thats fact. Focus on hot button social issues does not indicate an overall America first agenda what so ever.

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I watched a press conference when some reporter tried a "gotcha question," and DeSantis calmly tore her apart with facts. Didn't scream, "You're fake news!" or call her a name.

He should have. Kari Lake does it too, and she's right to. Why shouldn't the fake news be called fake news? Why shouldn't participants in their shenanigans be called names and be made fun of?

We aren't going to 'nice' our way out of the mess we're in. We're in a bare knuckle fight for this country, and the uniparty would like nothing better than for us to talk ourselves onto wearing gloves against their bare knuckles. Don't fall for it.

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He trolled Biden by holding an event at a place called Brandon Toyota, in Brandon, FL. I can't wait for him to debate the senile old fool.

mcconnell mcdaniel and mcarthy have said things about biden too, that doesn't make them any less uniparty.

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If, and it's a big if, Trump gets the nomination, and if (bigger if) he wins the election, he could only serve four years. DeSantis could serve eight.

Desantis could serve 8 after 4 more years of Trump too, providing he proves himself America first. The thing is, he wont, because he can't, because the uniparty who stands squarely against  putting America first has bought and is paying for him.


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I don't care who endorses DeSantis, or who he gets funds from. He needs BOTH, and would be foolish to turn anything down at this point.

I don't even know how to respond to that, except to say that the battle we're fighting isn't a simple left vs right battle, as we've been led for so many years to believe. The uniparty, like the mob, doesn't just throw money around with out returns involved on that money. Some info about one of his chief funders:

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While he’s supporting one of this cycle’s biggest culture warriors in DeSantis, Griffin said most hot-button issues — abortion rights, battles over sex education and LGBTQ rights — don’t define his interests. He wants to improve the diversity of the GOP and blunt the vein of populism that has complicated the party’s relationship with the corporate world — two things he’s consulted with House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy about.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/11/06/desantis-megadonor-billionaire-head-of-citadel-investments-ken-griffin-explains-why-he-purchased-ron-desantis-for-2024-and-what-he-expects-from-his-investment/

So you see, what I'm saying isn't mere speculation, it's right out of the mouth of one of his chief funding sources.

"Blunt the vein of populism" means tea party and maga types can shut up and go back to being overlooked, along with anything resembling an America first agenda. Forget anything resembling immigration control beyond token appearance efforts - as it was before Trump. Forget jobs not being outsourced as they were before Trump. Forget anything resembling the economy under Trump that primarily benefitted mainstreet instead of wall street.

THIS is what the three Mcs want, and it's what all establishment politicians wearing both uniforms in DC want, and what we should be solidly against. The use of social issues at the state level to establish bona fides is not a new thing, nor are politicians who play one game at the state level only to show their true stripes at the national level. Mark my words, if we try to run and kick that football, we'll end up flat on our backs, just like we did with ryan, romney, mccain, mcconnell, mcarthy, mcdaniel, graham, and every other uniparty type who we allowed ourselves to believe in, only to be disappointed.

My view, is that turning your back on a 100 percent known quantity and pinning your hopes on a new shiny thing who is well groomed and well funded by the people that HATE the previously mentioned known quantity is just asking to be bent over. Don't fall for it.
"Be not intimidated... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." - John Adams

Hillary Clinton will never be the President of the United States.

Offline 3rd-try

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2022, 09:18:42 PM »
When the dust settles, I'll vote for the last guy standing with a "R" after his name. However, as much as I'd like to believe there is a "Trump 2.0” out there I don't see it. Trump showed up with a "Not for Hire" sign on his back. And he's been under attack from all sides ever since.
The "Swamp" was little more than a topic for lively debate at high-roller cocktail parties before Trump flushed them out. I thought Romney, Graham, Bush, etc. were conservatives suffering from diplomatic diarrhea. Every word was nuanced so as to not offend. Therefore, nothing got done! And as it turns out that's how the swamp likes it. Life's good in the there. One big happy family with tax money falling out of the sky.
Only through Trump did I learn of 2nd generation diplomats brokering middle east talks. They have no interest in actual peace. They have careers to sustain. Trump goes over and, in a week, makes more progress than generations of highly paid and pampered “diplomats” We’ve never seen such historical progress blacked out by our news while downplayed and scoffed at by the dems. Not much support from the established Republicans either. He rocked the swamp boat. Not good.
We all know about the economy, border, energy, manufacturing jobs, under Trump. Trade agreements, useless and redundant regulations lifted. Climate change shown for the scam it is.  Trump said it all out loud! And he had to say it loud and often so it could be heard. It’s not like he had much help.
Trump is not an insider. Anyone with ties to the uniparty/swamp/globalist “club” is suspect. Personally I’d like to avoid Ivy League educated politicians in general.
I’ll vote for the last R but if not Trump I’m not optimistic. I hope to be eating crow over this. I really do.
On the bright side Billy Crystal, Liz Cheney and Ann Coulter are welcome on MSNBC these days. And Hunter can finally concentrate on his art.

Offline DUmpsterDiver

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2022, 10:42:24 PM »
The filthy Left will always deny accepting anything other than a 100% democrat win. 

Offline ExGeeEye

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2022, 03:41:21 AM »
When the dust settles, I'll vote for the last guy standing with a "R" after his name.

This, in spades.  In bucket loads.   In whatever form of high-volume material transfer mode you like.

And I'd like it to be Trump.  He has a record, and I only marginally care that his record includes things he said.  My concentration is on the things he did.

And, I don't think RDS will challenge him for the nomination, especially since he has a record as well, and that includes (to my knowledge) doing what he said he would do.
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Offline SVPete

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2022, 08:12:14 AM »
Trump's recent antics may make it unlikely I'd vote for him in CA's meaninglessly late Primary, but he'd get my vote against any of the Ds' nutso-Progs.

Something I'm wondering ... since crazy Biden Fuel Prices are a significant element in current inflation - directly, through prices at the pump and indirectly, through good distribution costs - would reversing Biden's anti-oil policies make a relatively quick dent in inflation (i.e. months instead of years, and dent, not cure)?
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline CollectivismMustDie

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2022, 09:11:18 AM »
Trump's recent antics may make it unlikely I'd vote for him in CA's meaninglessly late Primary, but he'd get my vote against any of the Ds' nutso-Progs.

Something I'm wondering ... since crazy Biden Fuel Prices are a significant element in current inflation - directly, through prices at the pump and indirectly, through good distribution costs - would reversing Biden's anti-oil policies make a relatively quick dent in inflation (i.e. months instead of years, and dent, not cure)?

I'm far from being an expert in economics, but I think the answer would be yes.

I'd be willing to listen to any explanation otherwise, but I can not see how it would be anything other than exactly what you said.
"Be not intimidated... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." - John Adams

Hillary Clinton will never be the President of the United States.

Offline landofconfusion80

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2022, 09:55:21 AM »
Trump's recent antics may make it unlikely I'd vote for him in CA's meaninglessly late Primary, but he'd get my vote against any of the Ds' nutso-Progs.

Something I'm wondering ... since crazy Biden Fuel Prices are a significant element in current inflation - directly, through prices at the pump and indirectly, through good distribution costs - would reversing Biden's anti-oil policies make a relatively quick dent in inflation (i.e. months instead of years, and dent, not cure)?
Oil prices are a lagging indicator.  Thus the saying: up like a rocket, down like a feather. I am currently shorting the oil market since my theory is that this is unsustainable for the foreseeable future
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20. absolute bullshit. the cave is unspeakably vile.

I don't know how any of you can live with yourselves.

:)

Offline SVPete

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Re: Is election denial ever acceptable?
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2022, 09:56:13 AM »
My career is in power electronics, so I don't know what % of distribution costs is fuel, but I suspect it is not insignificant. And if diesel is scarce, that will increase the % as well as impacting availability of products. Lopping a $1 per gallon off what I pay for gas would save me >$500 per year!
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.