This exchange perfectly demonstrates the problem with trying to have a reasonable discussion with the gun grabbers:
PTWB (3,849 posts)
15. A shotgun makes a poor home defense weapon comparatively.
Unless the home you’re defending is massive, with huge open areas. It is a common misconception that buckshot spreads quickly.
In reality, there is almost no spread whatsoever at typical self defense distances of 10 to 21 feet (spread about 1 inch at 10 feet and 2.5 inches at 30 feet). You’re still going to have to aim very precisely with buckshot and a shotgun.
Not only that, but buckshot over penetrates walls compared to a lightweight, frangible bullet like an HP .223 — one of the key factors in selecting a home defense weapon is minimizing or eliminating over penetration because you can’t control what’s happening on the other side of a wall. The last thing you want is a round going through the burglar, your wall, your neighbor’s wall, and then your neighbor.
An AR loaded with defense oriented ammunition and equipped with an attached flashlight for illuminating your target is simply a better choice for a home defense weapon than a shotgun. There is no contest.
I don't agree with everything in this post, but, as was noted above, over-penetration through walls is a significant concern when choosing a home defense weapon. Every weapon (and load) has various pros and cons and there isn't a "one size fits all" option.
shrike3 (1,389 posts)
23. Oh, Bullshit
My husband has carried all his life. Protected his home all his life, with a shotgun. I just read your statement to him. He laughed.
Doesn't provide any counterargument, just immediately tries to mock him.
PTWB (3,849 posts)
26. There's a lot of flat out incorrect information out there.
Poor practices and misinformation are prevalent.
What specific part of my post does your husband dispute? I’m happy to provide evidence of every claim I made. Let me know what he takes issue with.
shrike3 (1,389 posts)
27. His question is, where do you live that you'd need that kind of weapon to protect your property?
And at a time like this, why are you so worried about gun details? Seriously? THAT'S what you're worried about? Twenty-one people are dead. And you're freaking worried about "misinformation" regarding your weapon of choice? Really?
How you sleep at night, I don't know ...
Now goes for the guilt trip, but still doesn't address what they disagree with.
PTWB (3,849 posts)
29. Are you replying to the right person?
My post explained why a shotgun is a poor choice for a home defense weapon compared to an AR. Clearly your husband feels the need to protect his home as you said he uses a shotgun to do so. I also feel the need to protect mine. What does that have to do with where either of us live?
I choose to defend my home responsibly though, which is why I would never use a 12 gauge. The ammunition I’ve chosen is highly frangible and will not over penetrate walls like 00 buckshot or slugs will. My weapon has minimal recoil, is highly accurate, has sufficient capacity, and was easily equipped with a light to make sure I can see my target so that no tragic mistakes are made.
Again, what specific claim in my post does your husband dispute? Does he dispute that the buckshot or slug fired from his shotgun will over penetrate compared to a frangible 223 round? Does he dispute that a shotgun spread is minimal at typical self defense distances? What, exactly, is his objection?
shrike3 (1,389 posts)
31. How could I reply to the wrong person? You're the only one consumed with his weapon of choice.
His objection is this: anyone who is such a poor shot that he'd need an AR has no business having a gun of any sort.
He's defended his home with a shotgun for thirty years, and has even had to use it. But he can shoot.
The OP was about the weapon of choice for home defense. PTWB responded to it. That makes him "consumed". And the point of a shotgun is that it can be effective when used by someone who isn't the greatest shot, not the other way around. So shrike3 and her supposed husband are now trying to insult his shooting skills in a manner that makes no sense at all.
PTWB (3,849 posts)
32. So he has no objection then.
At least not to any of the factual claims that I made in my post.
Got it, thanks for clarifying!
shrike3 (1,389 posts)
33. And thank you for not disputing you are such a crappy shot
That you need an AR in order to hit ANYTHING.
Gun people. Starting to think y'all are the most selfish people on this earth. People die, and your first thought is yourselves. And your guns.
Again, more insults and ignorance to a reasonable post.
PTWB (3,849 posts)
34. Are you under the impression that I started this thread?
I did not.
Accuracy is important. It’s critically important in a self defense situation. Are you really suggesting that one should not take the accuracy of a weapon into account when selecting it for the purpose of self defense?
I made several evidence based points in the post you originally replied to about why the AR is better than the shotgun for home defense. You’ve replied to me numerous times but have yet to point to a single claim that I made which you or your husband disputes.
I own an AR and I also own a 12 gauge. I would never reach for the 12 gauge to defend my home because it is irresponsible to do so.
Just because someone has been doing something wrong for “30 years” doesn’t mean that it is any less wrong.
shrike3 (1,389 posts)
36. No, darlin'. Mineral Man posted this thread. He's a sane man.
You're obviously not. Thus, someone like you would never post a thread like this one.
Are you EVER going to acknowledge that 19 kids died? No. Of course not. Because nothing in this world in this world is as important as your gun. That's the problem here. You're like any other gun nut I've ever encountered. Most selfish people on earth. Thanks for proving that.
"Just because someone has been doing something wrong for “30 years” doesn’t mean that it is any less wrong."
Just read that to my husband. He laughed again.
And he asked, "Just who is this guy defending his home from? The Russians?"
More mockery. More hyperbole. And it goes on for several more exchanges with PTWB trying to have a meaningful dialogue and shrike3 responding like a child. PTWB proves her wrong every step of the way and he remains respectful, while shrike3 just flails with false claims, outright lies and personal insults. And finally:
shrike3 (1,389 posts)
46. Just visited your journal. You don't like poor people either, eh? On ignore you go.
I'm sure she thinks prevailed in that exchange, but all she did is display her ignorance and hostility. But they truly believe that a combination of falsehoods and insults is going to somehow change the gun control debate. And of course she has to use the ignore list to shield herself from someone who wants to discuss reasonable gun control and responsible gun usage.
