Is there a consensus on why the militias and white supremacists came...

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Star Member kentuck (104,988 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216642072

[u][b]Is there a consensus on why the militias and white supremacists came to the Capitol on January 6th?[/b][/u]

Did they get an email?

Who was it from?

Did they then organize in numbers to come to the Capitol?

Did they plan violence beforehand?

Did they bring weapons with them?

Were they just "following orders"?

Were they given "legitimacy" by the former president?

I think it would be good information to have about why they decided to come to Washington on January 6th?

Or do we already know?
 

TwilightZone (21,137 posts)

1. Trump called for a "big protest" on December 19th on Twitter.

"On Dec. 19, five days after the electoral votes had been cast in all 50 states, Trump first drew the public’s attention to the day those votes would be counted.

There would be a “big protest in D.C. on January 6th,” he wrote on Twitter. “Be there, will be wild!”

The next day, someone registered the domain WildProtest.com, leveraging Trump’s tweet to promote an event that does not appear to have existed previously. It appears to have been the brainchild of Ali Alexander, a far-right provocateur who was also the driving force behind StopTheSteal.com, a lucrative group leveraging Trump’s claims about voter fraud."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/02/10/when-did-jan-6-rally-become-march-capitol/

I'm not sure why some still seem to insist that it was some kind of secret. It was quite public and garnered much media attention at the time, just like everything else Trump bleats out.

Star Member bottomofthehill (6,149 posts)

4. The be wild part was telegraphing his intent

 

Star Member bucolic_frolic (31,074 posts)

2. That's a good point, despite serendipity, the 4 corners, diversity, rag tag attire

they all seemed to arrive at the same time on the same day with impromptu desire to destroy the property and institutions of the United States, the country that raised them, gave them opportunity and freedom, and to which they had pledged allegiance countless times.

Was it something in the air?

 

Star Member bottomofthehill (6,149 posts)

3. I will take a shot at answering

Did they get an email?

There was no one email, communications were through a variety of different ways, in person, email, text, phone conversation, what’s app, other secure methods of comms.

Who was it from?

First from then president trump

Then the direction came from militia and hate groups, campaign organizations, PACs, stop the steal and other Trump aligned groups and a variety of others

Did they then organize in numbers to come to the Capitol?

They clearly organized in numbers, pulling permits in various locations.

Did they plan violence beforehand?

There is little doubt from much of the uncovered information including the bringing of tactical gear, weapons, maps, the materials to build a gallows.

Did they bring weapons with them?

They came with all sorts of weapons, fire arms, Molotov cocktails, bats, clubs, chemical sprays including CS, Pepper Spray, Bear Spray, insect repellent ( long range wasp and hornet and the like) crowbars, axes, one asshole even had home made napalm.

Were they just "following orders"?

That one is a little tougher. Many of them were looking for the reason to act out. Others were acting on orders or at least thought they had the blessing of the then president.

Were they given "legitimacy" by the former president?

In my opinion, in many of their minds, they were given legitimacy by trump and the cast of governmental characters that spoke to them prior to their storming of the capitol.

they brought so many weapons that literally no one has been charged with weapons possession...

 

Effete Snob (2,656 posts)

6. It was obvious to me ahead of time


There was one image that was circulating on social media ahead of time, which struck me as a signal. It was a dark storm cloud over the Capitol dome. It was intended to resonate with the “storm” fantasy of the Q nonsense.

There were a lot of coded messages like that image, which suggested “storm the Capitol”.

Also, try to remember the apparent absurdity of the whole thing. Why? Why is the losing incumbent President seeking it have a mass demonstration on that day in particular in the first place?

There was also some confusion about the events. It wasn’t just the rally at the White House. The evening before, they had some initial gathering at Freedom Plaza, like the earlier one in December which Trump had flown over in his helicopter to inspect the troops. Then, on the day, the organizers had also planned another demonstration at the northeast corner of the Capitol. There was no “march” planned, but they had set up these two locations with that obvious idea that people would go from one to the other.

It seemed obvious that was the plan - come on down and go “wild”.

 

Star Member brooklynite (78,032 posts)

8. Lets be clear about what there IS and IS NOT evidence for....

("we know what Trump" wanted is unprovable and irrelevant)

Trump and his campaign staff and his WH staff wanted to delay/prevent approval of the electoral votes by Congress, in the hope that Republican controlled States would then rescind their appointments of electors. However, all documentation indicates that this process would be by legal means (eg pressuring Republicans to object to certification and delay the approval process). Trump stated at the protest rally that people should go to the Capitol to pressure the Republican members to do this. He did NOT say to enter the Capitol building, to threaten violence or to physically stop the certification process.

Trump's campaign organized and promoted his "Stop the Steal" protest rally at the Washington Monument. It was fully permitted and my all accounts non-violent. There is no evidence that his "Will be Wild" tweet was intended as more than his usual over-the-top hype./

Members of the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, 3%ers etc have confessed to planning an organized effort after the rally to enter the Capitol and brought equipment and weapons to force a stop to the certification process. There is no evidence to date of PLANS to kidnap, assault or kill anyone inside. (The "gallows" that everyone points to was too small to be a functional device, and "hanging in effigy" has been a protest form for over a century).

Some of the participants who entered the Capitol said they "believed" that Trump was telling them to do so through his language. However there is NO evidence that Trump, his staff or his campaign team OR Republican members of Congress knew of such plans, supported them, encouraged them or assisted them.

Ouch... that's gonna leave a mark.

 

Star Member bottomofthehill (6,149 posts)

11. Couple of points.

The Parks police were forced to take shelter inside the Washington monument by the peaceful stop the steal protestors heading to the ellipse, yes, the crowd that was inside the mags were peaceful because they were hearing what they wanted to hear and then the president closed his remarks as follows. This is a direct quote from his speech on the eclipse.

I have bolded the take away instructions from his speech. Who do you think the crowd was going to fight like hell with when told to March to the capitol.

And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.

Our exciting adventures and boldest endeavors have not yet begun. My fellow Americans, for our movement, for our children, and for our beloved country.

And I say this despite all that's happened. The best is yet to come.

So we're going to, we're going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I love Pennsylvania Avenue. And we're going to the Capitol, and we're going to try and give.

The Democrats are hopeless — they never vote for anything. Not even one vote. But we're going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help. We're going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.

So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.

I want to thank you all. God bless you and God Bless America.

Thank you all for being here. This is incredible. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Star Member brooklynite (78,032 posts)

14. Political people use "fight" all the time.

"Fight for $15"

"The fight for equality"

Star Member bottomofthehill (6,149 posts)

15. Yes, but when pointing them to a target and the actual fight breaks out

It is very different.

Saying “We are going to fight for a minimum wage increase” is different than telling people dressed and armed for battle to go off and fight the fight.


And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. . This is a call to action.


It is even more damning because we now know there was an effort to delay the vote count and the actual fight was one of the vehicles used to try to delay the count and kick it into the House.

This was a direct call to action by those who have used violence in the past.

And yet- only one person, a woman shot by the Police, was killed that day.

Star Member gab13by13 (9,607 posts)

17. The gallows was meant to intimidate Pence, the insurrection was meant to intimidate Pence and Speaker Pelosi who were in charge of the counting of the votes. If someone made a gallows,(non functional) and said it was made for you and then the mob chanted to hang you, would you just dismiss it?

No way in hell these Magats were not told what to do. They had a freaking command center at the Willard Hotel.

Maybe DOJ should get busy and find the missing communications that was going on with the White House during the attempted coup?

Can't get proof of criminal intent without investigating and I am not OK with that. DOJ is aware of people who called the White House, trace it back from their phones.

Star Member brooklynite (78,032 posts)

21. There is no evidence that the people at the Willard discussed anything other than the rally.

 

[ADsOutburst]

I don't know why militias and white supremacists to the Capitol.

I have heard, however, that the FBI is setting up such militias. 

[franksolich]

Poor brooklynite, still trying his damnedest to make the primitives grasp reality.

The guy's going to wear his fingers down to the bone, trying to do that.

[SVPete]

I don't know about "consensus" among Proggies, but reality is that the "militias and white supremacists" weren't in the Capitol, except in kt's hysteria-driven fantasies. Only the Capitol Police and planted FBI agents-provocateurs had fire arms, not any of the rioters. Is it my imagination, or has kt gone recently from generically DU-nutso to hysterically crazy?

[Wineslob]

I don't know about "consensus" among Proggies, but reality is that the "militias and white supremacists" weren't in the Capitol, except in kt's hysteria-driven fantasies. Only the Capitol Police and planted FBI agents-provocateurs had fire arms, not any of the rioters. Is it my imagination, or has kt gone recently from generically DU-nutso to hysterically crazy?

Nope, but it does bring to question the frothing-at-the-mouth desire to have this all be true despite evidence to the contrary.

[DefiantSix]

Poor brooklynite, still trying his damnedest to make the primitives grasp reality.

The guy's going to wear his fingers down to the bone, trying to do that.

His efforts might be more profitably spent trying to nail gelatin to the wall.

[enslaved1]

There has been one conviction of conspiracy to bring guns into the Capitol (I think that was the wording) by a group that was not fans of Trump (3%ers, again IIRC).  Not guns in the Capitol, but plans to bring them in.  I can't find the details right now, no matter how hard I ignore work  but in looking for it I notice some things, like the Wikipedia list of defendants having lots of "not guilty-all charges" updates to their chart. Even folks slapped with gun charges, almost all of those I see stem from when they were arrested, usually nowhere near DC or much later than 1/6. 

Star Member bottomofthehill (6,149 posts)

3. I will take a shot at answering

Did they get an email?

There was no one email, communications were through a variety of different ways, in person, email, text, phone conversation, what’s app, other secure methods of comms.

Sounds very Antifa, doesn't it.... (none of those qualify as secure methods, BTW)