Star Member babylonsister (169,099 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216608318
Sitting senator shown to have colluded in coup attempt. Sunday shows yawn
Joan McCarter
Daily Kos Staff
Monday April 18, 2022 · 11:01 AM EDT
Utah Republican Sen. Mike Lee was up to his eyeballs in the conspiracy committed to overturning the 2020 presidential election—the same Lee who sits on the Senate Judiciary committee and lectures much smarter, much more patriotic people on how the Constitution works.
Lee is also a liar. A liar smart enough to know that his “14 hours a day” spent trying to figure out how to overthrow the government and keep Trump installed in the White House was not a good look for him after the events of Jan. 6, so he lied about it. The newly revealed text messages between the senator and then-White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows prove that Lee had been pushing the plot by John Eastman to get Republican state legislators to toss their election results and appoint their own pro-Trump electors since Nov. 23, 2020.
”If a very small handful of states were to have their legislatures appoint alternative slates of delegates, there could be a path,” Lee texted Meadows on Nov. 23, when the counting had all been done. When Joe Biden had secured the office. But that’s not what he told Bob Woodward and Robert Costa in their recent book about the events leading up to Jan. 6. He told Woodward and Costa that the first he’d ever heard about “alternate electors” plot was on Jan. 2 and that “he was shocked.” That fact, interestingly enough, was picked up and tweeted extensively by former Texas Sen. Ted Cruz communications official Amanda Carpenter, who apparently has a bone to pick with the former Cruz sidekick.
Wow, a sitting senator who plotted for weeks to overthrow the will of the people, fueling the insurrection and then lying about it? Big news, right? Not at all. “[N]ot one of the five major Sunday talk shows mentioned one word about Lee,” writes the Washington Post’s James Downie. “Will the media let Sen. Mike Lee go unquestioned?” Downie asks. Why yes, yes they will.
more...
So, let me see if I get this right...
Lee says if the states appoint alternate electors, as is legal in those states, then there MAY BE a legal path to challenge the outcome?
Then says later he was shocked to find out this was happening in various planning groups?
is that illegal somehow?
Star Member Hoyt (53,583 posts)
4. Problem is that Lee's "Exhaust every legal and constitutional remedy" won't convict him.
Will take a lot more than that.
Star Member ancianita (26,060 posts)
7. Except that he is an accessory after the fact, which itself is a federal crime.
When the fact becomes evidence of crime, indicted and convicted, all those who were accessories may be indicted.
Indictment alone will ruin their political careers because they will not be pardoned or their arrest records expunged.
Star Member Hoyt (53,583 posts)
11. He's an accessory for what? Clearly he's an ignorant GOPer, was shocked at trump loss, etc.
But that is not a crime.
Star Member ancianita (26,060 posts)
12. A self coup -- trying to subvert constitutional operations to stay in power.
Trump’s goal was to keep himself in power, and his actions were taken over a period of months and in slow motion.
But that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a coup attempt. Trump disguised what he was doing by operating in plain sight, talking openly about his intent. The January 6 Committee has evidence of that.
The storming of the Capitol building on January 6 was the culmination of a series of actions and events taken or instigated by Trump so he could retain the presidency that together amount to an attempt at a self-coup. The Jan 6 has evidence that he instigated that.
In the end, after the Capitol was seized by Trump’s violent mob, 147 Republican members of Congress, led by Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, did endorse some of Trump’s efforts to challenge the election results and overturn the constitutional order. So did Senators Josh Hawley, Ted Cruz and Mike Lee helped Trump avoid losing and retain power unconstitutionally.
If the Jan 6 refers evidence and the DOJ compiles that with all its gathered evidence, and the DOJ finds Trump's action were a failed self coup, and just like with a failed bank robbery, this guy and others who aided and abetted will be accessories after the fact.
18 U.S. Code § 3 - Accessory after the fact
Whoever, knowing that an offense against the United States has been committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory after the fact.
Except as otherwise expressly provided by any Act of Congress, an accessory after the fact shall be imprisoned not more than one-half the maximum term of imprisonment or (notwithstanding section 3571) fined not more than one-half the maximum fine prescribed for the punishment of the principal, or both; or if the principal is punishable by life imprisonment or death, the accessory shall be imprisoned not more than 15 years.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 684; Pub. L. 99–646, § 43, Nov. 10, 1986, 100 Stat. 3601; Pub. L. 101–647, title XXXV, § 3502, Nov. 29, 1990, 104 Stat. 4921; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, §§ 330011(h), 330016(2)(A), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2145, 2148.)
I don't know why you've written off Trump's being indicted, or oppose any such interpretation; it's beyond me.
Star Member Hoyt (53,583 posts)
16. Good luck, with that. Let's not forget Democrats tried to challenge trump's Electoral Vote in 2017.
So, I don't think any of GOPers challenging Electoral Vote is going to get a conviction.
Now, if you can tie any of these guys directly to the Proud Boyz, Oathkeepers, and rube militias from around the country, you might have something. So far, no one has done that.
Fact is, all that has been found so far is just more evidence that trump is unfit for office, Lee is probably too. But that is not a criminal offense. If someone can pull that evidence out of a hat and convict trump, I'm all for it. So far, I don't see it happening.
If the Committee has such evidence, it's time to show it and refer it to DOJ.
Star Member ancianita (26,060 posts)
18. It's not a matter of luck.
The 2017 challenge is apples and oranges here.
They'll not only have the Eastman memo, texts and emails as evidence, they'll have the Proud Boy-Oath Keeper fact witnesses and the evidence that fake electors across 10 states were connected to the Eastman-Trump plan.
So after the fact will be established because that's how evidentiary facts work.
Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not happening. Man, if I had a dollar for every time people said no one would be convicted over Jan 6, I'd have $371 more to donate to Beto. And if I had a dollar for every time people here said or "nothing's happening,' or "it's time," I'd be even richer.
Star Member Hoyt (53,583 posts)
21. Oh, Proud Boyz and insurrectionists are guilty as hell. However, even in your post there is nothing
tying trump to an illegal act.
Again I think you are confusing more evidence of trump being unfit for office, with evidence that will convict him in court.
As to the "fake electors," Eastman did not try to present the fake electors as OFFICIAL electors. In fact, the coverletters I saw said something to the effect that "If you throw out the state certified/official electors, here are some cronies we'd like you to consider."
I hope I'm wrong, but I think we'll be arguing this for decades without resolution. That will hurt us a polls with midterms 8 months away.
Star Member ancianita (26,060 posts)
24. If you see that then you see a Trump connection. They've testified they followed his "invite"
or planned self coup incite, as we would say.
No, Eastman didn't. That's not what Eastman is guilty of.
Before a judge in March,
Mr. Eastman had acknowledged in an email obtained by the House committee that he was encouraging Mr. Pence to break federal law in rejecting legitimate electors for Mr. Biden — something he referred to as a “relatively minor violation.”
“He wanted the vice president to do something that was plainly against the Constitution,” Mr. Letter said, adding sarcastically, “It would have been so minor, it could have changed the entire course of our democracy.”
At one point, Judge Carter focused on part of Mr. Eastman’s memo in which he encouraged Mr. Pence to reject electors “without asking for permission.”
General House Counsel, Mr. Letter, said that part of the memo was further acknowledgment that the Trump campaign was trying to hold onto power through any means necessary.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/08/us/politics/jan-6-panel-trump-fraud.html
EDIT: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/04/17/mike-lee-and-chip-roy-texts/
On Friday, CNN released more than 100 text messages from Lee and Rep. Chip Roy (R-Tex.), sent between the 2020 election and Jan. 6, 2021, to then-White House chief of staff Mark Meadows. In the election’s immediate aftermath, both Lee and Roy encouraged Trump and his aides to overturn the results...Even a majority of Republicans agree that Pence did not have the power to overturn the election as he presided over the Senate...Lee not only persisted, but also then tried to cover his tracks about what he did.
The Jan 6 Committee has the memo and emails, factual witness testimony on the Trump-Eastman meetings, among other things we don't yet know, along with Proud Boy-Oath Keeper evidentiary witness testimony, for criminal referral that ties Trump to Eastman and a plan for a self coup.
Meadows, Lee, and the rest will still be liable as accessories after the fact.
We shall see. Given the evidence beyond any reasonable doubt, if we can't get anyone indicted beyond the rioters, we really have no constitutional enforcement and might as well do away with the judiciary system.
Most important, the American people will see the hearings and learn that claiming "we didn't know an attempted bank robbery was against the law" will be no defense.
Septua (944 posts)
13. Every LEGAL ...remedy
You have a point. We just got to wait on Garland's conclusions and response, I guess.
Star Member erronis (10,713 posts)
22. I can always guess by your authorship that you'll have something negative to say
about Democratic hopes and efforts.
Star Member Hoyt (53,583 posts)
23. If the efforts are for healthcare, jobs, education, child care, etc., I applaud Democratic efforts.
If it's trying to put trump behind bars, the efforts have proven wasted and I think will hurt Democrats in midterms.
The ultimate court -- voters -- convicted trump. We need to move on to other issues in this country.
Star Member gab13by13 (9,381 posts)
10. I know what Republicans would do,
Mitch McConnell would convene a committee to investigate Lee's role in the coup. Remember Benghazi?
Lee is up for reelection this year.
Star Member Botany (63,513 posts)
26. Bush and Cheney somehow allowed Saudi Arabia to attack America on 9/11 via bin Laden and then ...
... used it as an excuse to attack Iraq so Dick Cheney could steal their oil and the "liberal media"
didn't say shit. BTW the GOP/Nixon also stole a Presidential election in 1968 by Nixon cutting a
deal w/the North and South Vietnamese to reject LBJ's peace treaty which Nixon/Kissenger sign
on to in Jan '73, Reagan had HW Bush cut a deal w/Iran to hold onto the hostages until after the
election, w bush got in via Florida 2000 & OH 2004, and Trump was installed by Russia in 2016.
But we did hear about HRC's emails, Al Gore and the internet, and John Kerry and the swiftboats
“Will the media let Sen. Mike Lee go unquestioned?”
Star Member budkin (5,847 posts)
31. They pivoted to "Biden has terrible poll numbers"
Because "liberal media."
