Heard some disturbing things on Hartman's program this week

[dutch508]

Cheezoholic (432 posts) <-----DNC Shill
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216526856

Heard some disturbing things on Hartman's program this week

and on DU for awhile now and amongst like minded folks I know. Thom did a rant about getting physically involved in the Democratic party using Bannon pushing this on the other side. Not the first time he's ranted about this. Agree with him totally. He immediately started taking calls from those who have had it with the inner workings of the DNC top to bottom. I agree with him, if you don't like it fix it. I agree with them, there's a ton of house cleaning to be done across the board.

But right now, at this moment, and I wish Thom would've spoke more about it, the Democratic party needs to be unified. All of us. We can't be infighting with what's at stake in less than 8 months.

If we can't at least retain what we have in Nov its over folks. i heard people on his show saying they wouldn't vote because the party is corrupt. Have seen it here. Guess what, we lose in Nov you won't have a party to worry about and you will never again have a vote period.

Screw 2024, right now we need to win 2022 period. Then we can talk about party reform. If we lose in Nov, truly we are screwed from that point on. I honestly believe that

DNC is running scared...

FreepFryer (6,631 posts)

1. Hartmann was supported for years by Russian Military Intelligence on RT. He should leave the media.

His latest posts use language like “seizing” the party.

He is not to be trusted.

Russia Today is now banned for disinformation and Hartmann, whose program was platformed and underwritten by a branch of the Russian military, should have the good sense to pack up shop.

OMG... now they are claiming Hartman is a russian agent...

Bernardo de La Paz (41,299 posts)

4. You have an obsession about this fact that is older than 5 years old


You too can judge a person by their character and writings and recorded media, rather than five year old guilt by association.

RT is banned in 2022. Hartmann used their studio and distribution until 2017, but all that time was distributed on other media including Democratic Underground.

Get over it.

At this point, what does it matter?

FreepFryer (6,631 posts)

7. Bernardo please stop the personal attacks on me.

I'm entitled to my opinion.

Hartmann is highly problematic, and we are not expected to ignore his longstanding relationship w Russian military intelligence.

They don’t pay for nothing.

Star Member gab13by13 (8,788 posts)

13. Your opinions are way off base, there is no better advocate to saving our democracy than Thom Hartmann. IMO Hartmann should be given Rachel's cable news spot, there is none better. Bashing Thom because he was on RT getting his message out is a far cry from implying that he had a relationship w Russia.

These sudden attacks on Thom make me wonder why. Thom Hartmann is my favorite democractic advocate, we need more voices like his.

 

Bernardo de La Paz (41,299 posts)

17. Your opinion that he is a spy is unfounded


Guilt by association is bad enough but making a huge leap to "longstanding relationship w Russian military intelligence" is worse and more wrong.

You have no evidence that there has been a "relationship" at any point over the past five years (5 years).

By extension, you would be accusing DU of being in bed with Russia by your guilt by association because DU allows (correctly) Hartmann (who you accuse of carrying Russian water today) to post on DU and his podcasts to be shared here.

The objective fact is that you have an obsession because anytime I see a posting referencing Hartmann, there you are tarring him. I'm sorry you object to the word "obsession". Perhaps "fixation" or "compulsion" or "preoccupation" would suit better. I'm not attacking you personally. I'm attacking your preoccupation.

 

FreepFryer (6,631 posts)

21. 5 years ago we knew what Russia and RT were doing to undermine our election and nation.

It was hardly an innocent time to be an agent of Russian disinformation.

Star Member pnwmom (105,769 posts)

57. Just because he signed up on Democratic Underground doesn't make his profiting

from his appearances on Russia Today okay.

Beastly Boy (4,189 posts)

83. Trumpism is older than five years. And this is a direct consequence of what happened in 2016.

Don't deny Hartmann's place in the history of that election. He co-produced his program with RT, he was paid by RT, and he remained on their payroll way past the tome of joint US intelligence agency report publishing evidence of Russia's interference in the US election on Trump's behalf, a report that mentioned RT by name, if I recall.

Sorry, there is no getting over it. I will joyfully stop obsessing about this when we no longer suffer the consequences of the Trump presidency. I am very much looking forward to this day, but I am not holding my breath.

Star Member KPN (13,261 posts)

65. What is your goal? You consistently for years now harangue about Thom Hartmann being a willing agent of Russia with zero factual evidence. What is your purpose in consistently attacking perhaps the most effective promoter of Democratic progressive thought, ideas and goals on America’s airwaves over the past two decades? What good are you trying to accomplish? The unsubstantiated smears are tiring and seriously make me wonder what your goal is. I see none of value. I see the opposite frankly.

 

Are we seeing the beginnings of a new DU purge?

Eyeball_Kid (6,520 posts)

84. Wow. I've got to jump in here.

Hartmann did, indeed broadcast on Russian TV for a time. My guess is that it was a business decision made at a time when it appeared that Russia was relatively benign, and that his pro-democracy themes, of broadcast within Russia, would benefit those inside Russia in their own quest for a better quality of life. I've been listening to Hartmann for decades. I've never heard him say anything that would engender suspicions that he was anti-democracy or pro-Russian or pro-Putin. Hartmann has been as consistent as the atomic clock in that regard. He's always looked unfavorably toward corporatism, corruption, and the Republican Party. IMO, Hartmann is there to remind us that our own "democracy" has multiple weaknesses... BECAUSE IT DOES. And he's always done what he can to point the way toward more equitable self-governance.

I'm nearly the same age as Hartmann. He's talked about his education, training, and background at irregular times on his broadcasts. I've always seen him as a harder working, (even luckier), more talented, and maybe even more intelligent version of myself. Our educational backgrounds are similar, as are our reasoning abilities and moral sensibilities. Maybe it's just that our vocabularies are similar. In any event, there is no better person, IMO, in public media who can articulate the strengths and weaknesses of our methods of self governance, and what we can do to make it better.

A good question to ask Hartmann is why he left RT when he did. My best guess is that Russia was turning more belligerent and was poisoning its citizens because they opposed Putin, and Hartmann didn't want to be associated with any of it. I appreciate the motivations of some to aggressively identify those who are surreptitiously or visibly enabling authoritarian and fascist movements domestically or internationally. The spread of fascism is real and there are numerous reasons that the fascist movement has taken hold in the US. But, IMO, those who are pointing a finger at Hartmann as another propaganda arm of Putin or the GOP or right wing whackery are barking up the wrong tree.

So there's my "rant" for this morning.

 

Star Member NightWatcher (39,204 posts)

10. He's a Russian tool who only stopped being a tool when DoJ wanted people on RT to register for FARA

His job was to convince enough Bernie voters to not vote for Hillary and he did just that and helped get trump elected. He did his part, whether he knew it or not.

Bernardo de La Paz (41,299 posts)

33. Again, you give no evidence, least of all current evidence from his writings / podcasts / books. nt

FreepFryer (6,631 posts)

34. No evidence? That's hilarious. I'm realizing now you're just naysaying.

“Yes, his show was produced and broadcast for Russia Today for years.”
“Yes, Russia Today is a proven arm of Russian Military Intelligence created and dedicated to countering US perception and power abroad.”
“Yes, Russia Today is now banned in the USA and across the world for this disinformation campaign”

But

“How dare you be concerned about Hartmann, he left RT, and as of yet has not been forced to disclose the financial and editorial details of his relationship and arrangement with Russia Today!”

And there’s something wrong w me for even asking.

Do I understand your argument correctly?

Bernardo de La Paz (41,299 posts)

39. You are the naysayer wanting to cancel Hartmann. Ball in your court. You have no evidence

The best you come up with is a 5 year old smear.

But despite his 30 books you can't point to anything he has said or written.

Despite having 5 years.

MontanaFarmer (560 posts)

64. The evidence is that he took Russian money to broadcast a talk show, at a time when Russian disinformation was very actively being used to try to elect their preferred candidate. He's no better than Ed Schultz, who was once a voice in our party more powerful than Thom. Is this circumstantial? Not really, as we see Thom, a Bernie acolyte, working for Russia, at the precise time Bernie primary voters were being encouraged to not vote for Hillary, by a coordinated effort that included Russia. Now we're going to follow this person's advice on how to treat the Democratic party? No thanks, I'm out.

 

Bernardo de La Paz (41,299 posts)

71. Ah, the Bernie spectre is resuscitated again as a reason to fear Hartmann. . . . nt

Star Member gab13by13 (8,788 posts)

26. OK now I get it,

Thom supports Russia because he backed Bernie Sanders.

It took me a while. People here are still fighting the 2016 primary.

Hey you Thom bashers, I was a Bernie supporter also, I dare you to call me pro-Russia.


Here's another reason someone can call me pro-Russian, I plan on voting for the populist candidate John Fetterman in Pa. over the moderate Conor Lamb. Why not do a thread on that one?

I finally figured out these anti-Hartmann threads, that even spell his name wrong. These threads are meant to get progressive and moderate Democrats fighting, and that is what will divide Democrats.

 

Escurumbele (2,249 posts)

68. Those who claim the "party is corrupt" must explain why they think so, they need to provide proof

Too many people throw one-liners without supporting them, enough of that. If you can't explain yourself about what you claim then stay quiet, otherwise it is just trolling.

betsuni (18,946 posts)

79. I've been asking for years for evidence the party is corrupt and it never comes.

Enough is enough. It's shameful and only helps Republicans.

 
 
 
 

[jukin]

Hey you Thom bashers, I was a Bernie supporter also, I dare you to call me pro-Russia.

Zero. Self. Awareness.

Bernie supporter anti-Russia, it is to laugh... at the DUmmy in all of its glorious stupidity.

[CollectivismMustDie]

Zero. Self. Awareness.

Bernie supporter anti-Russia, it is to laugh... at the DUmmy in all of its glorious stupidity.

Right?

Someone needs to remind the DUmmy where bernie honeymooned.

[BamaMoose]

The pretzel logic is amazing.  I really like how they try to explain that Hartman being on RT doesn't mean he was actually working for them.

MontanaFarmer (573 posts)

174. Does working for someone not indicate "taking money?"

What am I missing here? Does Lawrence O'Donnell take money from MSNBC? Tucker from newscorp? Lemon from CNN? You're correct, I can't produce Thom's pay stubs from when he was broadcasting on RT but seems a fair assumption he was paid for his time, no? And what is RT again? A Russian propaganda outlet. Failing to see the smear.

Bernardo de La Paz (41,340 posts)

176. You are missing that he wasn't "working for them"

He used their studio. That's not "working for them".

They used his content, unedited on their network. That's not "working for them".

Since you can't produce evidence, drop the TAKING MONEY smear.

I don't know, maybe he did take payment for his content. I doubt it, but it is possible. You, however, have provided no evidence and still maintain the assertion as if it were the truth. Maintaining it is the smear. You have presented no evidence.

 

Bernardo de La Paz (41,340 posts)

116. You said MONEY. You haven't provided any evidence of your smear that he TOOK MONEY
 
People with cases don't have to resort to such smears.

MontanaFarmer (573 posts)

126. It's not a smear. He worked for RT. That's a fact. I'm not trying
 
a case. Goodness.

Bernardo de La Paz (41,340 posts)

128. You said "took MONEY", and provide no evidence. That is one of the smears. . . . nt

So, he was broadcasting on RT for free? And I like when it's pointed out that, when Russia invaded the Crimea, several RT personalities quit while Hartman remained and parroted Russian propaganda about how Putin was "liberating" Ukraine.  But, somehow, that wasn't carrying water for Putin.  Their ability to create their own reality is truly astounding.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Thom Hartmann the seditionist insurrectionist?

https://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2021/01/how-much-better-would-america-be-if-6-republican-presidents-hadnt-stolen-white-house

[dandi]

Are we seeing the beginnings of a new DU purge?

This is the fun part, where their looming losses in November combine with Russo-paranoia and they change from the Democrat Party to the Donner Party.

 

[CollectivismMustDie]

This is the fun part, where their looming losses in November combine with Russo-paranoia and they change from the Democrat Party to the Donner Party.

 

Perhaps they'd be the DUnner party.

 

[fatboy]

This is the fun part, where their looming losses in November combine with Russo-paranoia and they change from the Democrat Party to the Donner Party.

 

With or without Thom, I'm recommending come November that we carve up the Dope Party like a Thanksgiving turkey.