You're Being Lied to About the Ukraine

[Eupher]

Tied to my earlier post referencing Wayne Allyn Root's suspicions, here we have more evidence that propaganda at the hands of the Ukrainians paints a picture that many of us - me included - sucked up as being true.

Nope.

Ukraine is corrupt, or more precisely, the GOVERNMENT of Ukraine is corrupt. The people are its people. We're not talking about the people. We're talking about Zelenskiy and his henchmen, who are only marginally less corrupt than Vladimir Putin.

In short, we're being played for suckers. Pedro Gonzalez explains it far better than I can.

https://conservativecave.com/cave/index.php?topic=128479.0

https://thecharliekirkshow.com/podcasts/the-charlie-kirk-show/you-re-being-lied-to-about-ukraine-russia-the-trut

[Drafe Hoblin]

Reagan's  " Trust, but verify. "  mindset is getting me through. 

But it's like trusting the 'grapevine' of seemingly-logical occurrences documented by seemingly-privy news sources.

[Zathras]

The problem with Russia vs. Ukraine is by siding with Ukraine it's the lesser of two evils. The lesser of two evils is still evil.

[Rebel]

I'm resigned to the fact that ALL politicians and governments are corrupt, Euph. Putin is worth over a billion dollars. He's corrupt AF as well. I side with the Ukraine because they're the ones dying. Corruption in government doesn't warrant invasion by another. Especially by another corrupt nation. **** Russia. Corruption aside, they're the ones that invaded. Corruption wasn't the reason. They want land. What this IS showing us is if those ****ers ever got to Fulda, they'd be annihilated. All they have is nukes and they weren't that damn accurate 2 decades ago hence why they built so many. They're being decimated in Ukraine. T-72's are being taken out by RPG-7s. Even their T-90's are being taken out. Follow this guy. He's an Estonian soldier, NATO member, bordering Russia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYbDmBjxPXM

[Eupher]

I'm resigned to the fact that ALL politicians and governments are corrupt, Euph.

No argument from me about that. That old adage about those seeking power are the first ones to abuse that power comes to mind. Professional politicians are the worst and while there might be a few that aren't tainted, most of them are because they want to be all things to all people and that is impossible. So they start cutting corners when they start cutting deals.

Putin is worth over a billion dollars. He's corrupt AF as well. I side with the Ukraine because they're the ones dying.

The Ukrainians seem to be a doing a pretty good job of making the Russians die - if we can believe the pablum that the media shoves down our throat. This is the central point of this thread -- we cannot (and usually don't, though it's not easy) accept what we're being told because it's deliberately fake. The only people who know it's fake are those faking the stories (like Snake Island) and those who are dying.

Corruption in government doesn't warrant invasion by another. Especially by another corrupt nation. **** Russia. Corruption aside, they're the ones that invaded. Corruption wasn't the reason. They want land.

Putin wants to reinstall the Soviet Union, be the de facto head of the new Soviet Union (for life) and keep NATO the hell out of his own defined "buffer zone" which includes Ukraine. That "buffer zone" was the entire reason for the formation of the Soviet Union to begin with. Russia has distrusted the West for hundreds of years and that hasn't changed either, though NATO has a hard time wiping its ass much less be a military threat to Russia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYbDmBjxPXM

I'll take a look at this.

[SVPete]

The problem with Russia vs. Ukraine is by siding with Ukraine it's the lesser of two evils. The lesser of two evils is still evil.

And the greater is still the worse evil. Putin is trying to rebuild the Soviet empire, which would be by far the greater evil. If Putin gets a chunk or all of Ukraine with "only" a moderately bloodied nose (he isn't dying, just his cannon fodder), Moldova, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania should be worried who is next. And while NATO countries probably need not worry about being invaded by Russian tanks, they'd damn well better end their abject dependence of Russian natural gas and oil.

Syngman Rhee, Park Chung-hee, and Chiang Kai-shek were not wonderful dudes, but Kim I and Mao were far worse (with Kim II and III following in Kim I's jackboots).

[ABC-2]

From Post by: Rebel
« on: March 08, 2022, 11:50:37 PM

" I side with the Ukraine because they're the ones dying. Corruption in government doesn't warrant invasion by another. Especially by another corrupt nation. **** Russia. Corruption aside, they're the ones that invaded."

I agree with you 100% on the above Rebel.  I can not bear to see the absolute brutality of what is happening to the innocent Ukrainian population in this crazy unwarranted war.

I believe the quickest way toward  putting an end to this horror, would be by cutting off the head of the "snake"  Putin ...

And as much as I would like to see it, I am also aware that the actual consequences of doing such a thing are far, far "above my perview!"

[DefiantSix]

I pretty much assume I'm being lied to, until I see evidence to the contrary. Basically, I hold the mindset that if you have to tell me anything I should be able to discern from your actions, the performance of your product or anything else I have the ability to observe with my own senses, that is prima facia evidence that you're trying to sell me a snow job.

Thing is though, even when you know you're being fed a line of bullshit, the liar will give clues as to what it is they're trying to hide behind all the sailboat fuel. Usually the first thing they'll reveal is why the truth they're obfuscating is so sensitive a subject to them. That is frequently the key to deciphering the whole steaming pile, and what they're hiding unravels pretty quickly after that.

Yeah, I suppose it's fair to say that I have major trust issues...

[Eupher]

I pretty much assume I'm being lied to, until I see evidence to the contrary. Basically, I hold the mindset that if you have to tell me anything I should be able to discern from your actions, the performance of your product or anything else I have the ability to observe with my own senses, that is prima facia evidence that you're trying to sell me a snow job.

110% correct, on the money, and h5

Thing is though, even when you know you're being fed a line of bullshit, the liar will give clues as to what it is they're trying to hide behind all the sailboat fuel. Usually the first thing they'll reveal is why the truth they're obfuscating is so sensitive a subject to them. That is frequently the key to deciphering the whole steaming pile, and what they're hiding unravels pretty quickly after that.

Yeah, I suppose it's fair to say that I have major trust issues...

You ain't the only one. Let me re-introduce "stellar" characters such as Slick Willie, John McCain, Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham, Lisa Murkowski, not to mention the usual criminals -- Nancy Pelousy, Chuck Schumer, et. al. I'm not even going to sully this thread by mentioning by name the so-called proglodytes who have sullied this nation by their simply breathing air.

[Drafe Hoblin]

Aaaaaaannnd nothing happened...

Here's a good example of trusting the logic of a news-report from Ukraine. 

But over the past two weeks, an overwhelming Russian cyber attack has yet to appear.

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/russia-cyber-attack-ukraine/

“When you look back at the initial troop buildup, it looked like a very coordinated, methodical effort, and in that case you would normally have your cyber component planning well in advance with the intention of executing attacks,” said David Kennedy, a former Marine Corps cyber warfare analyst and CEO of cybersecurity firm TrustedSec. “Instead what we saw was very limited, mostly malware and distributed denial of service (DDOS) attacks on Ukrainian websites, which would indicate a lack of planning.”

It seems illogical for the report to be deceptive.

[Ptarmigan]

Much wants more and loses all
https://gefira.org/en/2022/03/11/much-wants-more-and-loses-all/

The collective post-West has been running amok for the last two weeks. The powers that be make believe that they did not expect that events would unfold the way they are unfolding now (though they did their best to make things happen as they are happening) and they make a show imposing sanctions on the aggressor and assuring the populace that the aggressor sooner or later will cave in. There is yet a third aspect to the phenomenon: the same powers that be want the people to forget that merely twenty years back they themselves assaulted Yugoslavia/Serbia, used missiles with depleted uranium, bombed cities and shot at civilians. Of course, that earlier event was a humanitarian action while the current one is a brutal act of aggression, but we digress.

Now there is a big misconception on the part of the post-West about Russia. If the Western media claim the Russian people are against the war or that the Russian people are about to rebel and overthrow President Putin, then they are either delusional or lying through their teeth. Reality is something that refuses to obey our wishes. The Russian people have rallied around their president and and their authorities; the Russian people – unlike citizens of the post-Western countries – are patriotic and ready to sacrifice themselves in defence of their fatherland. Western sanctions? The post-West may withdraw businesses and impose sanctions on Russian oligarchs, which is music to the ears of the Russian people. They resented Western dominance anyway and they will be more than happy to see the oligarchs mopped up from their society. Russians view the hostilities as a repeat of the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945. Contrary to what has been done to the Western collective mentality, the Russian authorities under Vladimir Putin took great efforts to raise Russia’s citizens in patriotic values. Russians are going to win because they do not care about money so much as the West does. That’s one big misconception that Western people have about their opponents from the East.

It is the West that cannot imagine a life without money and the resultant luxuries. Sanctions or no sanctions, Western companies will sooner or later (I bet: sooner) resume business with Russia because – as everybody in the West knows – “money makes the world go round”. No less a person than Comrade Lenin famously said: capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will make a noose to hang them. And so they will, make no bones about it.

Interesting read.

[freedumb2003b]

Tied to my earlier post referencing Wayne Allyn Root's suspicions, here we have more evidence that propaganda at the hands of the Ukrainians paints a picture that many of us - me included - sucked up as being true.

Nope.

Ukraine is corrupt, or more precisely, the GOVERNMENT of Ukraine is corrupt. The people are its people. We're not talking about the people. We're talking about Zelenskiy and his henchmen, who are only marginally less corrupt than Vladimir Putin.

In short, we're being played for suckers. Pedro Gonzalez explains it far better than I can.

https://conservativecave.com/cave/index.php?topic=128479.0

https://thecharliekirkshow.com/podcasts/the-charlie-kirk-show/you-re-being-lied-to-about-ukraine-russia-the-trut

I have been saying that since this whole shebang began.   

Transparency.org rates UKR a 122/180 (higher is bad) and Corruption Perception of 32/100 (lower is bad).  https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021/index/ukr

RUS is 136 and 29 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021/index/rus

Two corrupt hellholes going at it.

[Zathras]

I'm resigned to the fact that ALL politicians and governments are corrupt, Euph. Putin is worth over a billion dollars. He's corrupt AF as well. I side with the Ukraine because they're the ones dying. Corruption in government doesn't warrant invasion by another. Especially by another corrupt nation. **** Russia. Corruption aside, they're the ones that invaded. Corruption wasn't the reason. They want land. What this IS showing us is if those ****ers ever got to Fulda, they'd be annihilated. All they have is nukes and they weren't that damn accurate 2 decades ago hence why they built so many. They're being decimated in Ukraine. T-72's are being taken out by RPG-7s. Even their T-90's are being taken out. Follow this guy. He's an Estonian soldier, NATO member, bordering Russia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYbDmBjxPXM

Russian vehicles are also being lost to things other than weapons. You know it's going bad when Ukranian farmers are using their tractors to steal Russian military vehicles...

https://youtu.be/DLQhxgqxOEg