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Offline BEG

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I need help.....
« on: September 03, 2008, 10:45:54 AM »
LOL made you look.   :p

Actually I do need your help.  Last night my daughter was on one of her game message boards and the kids were debating about Obama and McCain (of course the kids all want Obama except for a few).  She showed me what some of these kids were saying and even she could see how simple their though process is at this age.  They just think everything should be FREE and Obama looks so COOL.  My daughter doesn't know much about politics and kept coming to me for advice on what to say in the debate.  I told her not to get involved unless she has her own views and knows how she feels on the issues otherwise she will come off looking foolish.  I don't want to "indoctrinate" her as I don't want her views to be my views.  I want her to have her own opinions but I want a good book or something that she can read to help form her views with out shoving one view down her throat.  She is in the car with me when I listen to talk radio and she is around when my husband or a friend and I talking politics so I think I am rubbing off on her.  I didn't even think about politics at the age of 14 (almost 15) let alone want to know more.  She is eager to learn and I don't want to be her main source of information because I want her to form her own opinions, if those opinions end up being liberal then so be it but I want them to be her own.

Anyone have any suggestions on how I can help her?  A book or web site?  I am afraid to send her to a political message board for obvious reasons.

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Offline Splashdown

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2008, 10:52:06 AM »
Do the "grades" thing.

If she gets a A, does she think she should lose points so others can do well?
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Offline Scoobie

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2008, 11:01:34 AM »

I'd love to know about what's out there to teach the young ones, too, BEG.

My daughter and I had a conversation last night about politics as well (we were watching the convention together). She's only 7, though, so I struggled with trying to get her to understand the fundamental difference between the two major parties. It's funny, because I did the very thing Splashdown mentioned, and started with the school example of "what if you get an 'A' and Sally gets an 'F'" thing. It's hard, though, trying to explain it to someone who knows nothing about it, especially if they are young. When I was done, and she was saying back to me what she learned from things I said, there was a definite good (Repub)/bad (Dem) tone that she picked up, which I then had to quickly correct.

The last thing I need is to get called in to the Teachers office and explain why my daughter thinks all Dems are the devil.  :uhsure:
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Offline BEG

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2008, 11:03:12 AM »
Quote from: Splashdown on September 03, 2008, 10:52:06 AM
Do the "grades" thing.

If she gets a A, does she think she should lose points so others can do well?

I have already done that.  I also have used the analogy of "Give a man to fish...he eats for a day.  Teach a man to fish....he eats for a lifetime."  I want something (not from me) that she can read to help her actually find her views by giving her difference examples of situations and having her figure out what she thinks the government should or shouldn't do.  Something that perhaps spells out the consequences and benefits of both.  
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Offline BEG

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2008, 11:08:02 AM »
Quote from: Scoobie on September 03, 2008, 11:01:34 AM

I'd love to know about what's out there to teach the young ones, too, BEG.

My daughter and I had a conversation last night about politics as well (we were watching the convention together). She's only 7, though, so I struggled with trying to get her to understand the fundamental difference between the two major parties. It's funny, because I did the very thing Splashdown mentioned, and started with the school example of "what if you get an 'A' and Sally gets an 'F'" thing. It's hard, though, trying to explain it to someone who knows nothing about it, especially if they are young. When I was done, and she was saying back to me what she learned from things I said, there was a definite good (Repub)/bad (Dem) tone that she picked up, which I then had to quickly correct.

The last thing I need is to get called in to the Teachers office and explain why my daughter thinks all Dems are the devil.  :uhsure:

See that shows you are a good person (unlike the people at DU who teach their kids that Republicans are EVIL).  I too point out to all my kids that the "other side" isn't evil, just that they think differently and have different ideas.  That we basically want the same things in life but that we just don't agree on how to get there.  I want when they are exposed to the other side in college to remember what I told them about Liberal views and contrast to what their liberal professors and college friends say about conservatives.  Hopefully they will know which side is right and which just doesn't make sense.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2008, 11:16:24 AM »
Call'em a buncha f'n morons and then continue on with a profanity-laced tirade like I do.  :-)
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Offline Rebel

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2008, 11:18:09 AM »
J/K.

You could use the tip analogy or the grasshopper analogy.
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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline BEG

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2008, 11:22:24 AM »
Quote from: Rebel on September 03, 2008, 11:18:09 AM
J/K.

You could use the tip analogy or the grasshopper analogy.

I have used the analogy things people.   :p  I want her to read something that (not coming from me) to help her to think through her views without shoving one view down her throat.  Something to help her think through the consequences of certain actions.
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2008, 11:31:04 AM »
If you want her to start thinking about conservatism as a political philosophy per se, while it's probably too early to start her off with God and Man at Yale, there are several books that, while challenging to a person her age, might be within reach, such as Bias, or if you want more historical texts, have her READ the Constitution, then DISCUSS it.  Have her READ the Federalist Papers, or Common Sense, etc...those are most definitely at a high school level.
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Offline BEG

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2008, 11:32:57 AM »
Quote from: NHSparky on September 03, 2008, 11:31:04 AM
If you want her to start thinking about conservatism as a political philosophy per se, while it's probably too early to start her off with God and Man at Yale, there are several books that, while challenging to a person her age, might be within reach, such as Bias, or if you want more historical texts, have her READ the Constitution, then DISCUSS it.  Have her READ the Federalist Papers, or Common Sense, etc...those are most definitely at a high school level.

I just so happen to have the book Bias.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2008, 11:33:51 AM »
Have her read the Cave, but keep the censor on.  :evillaugh:

She'll be converted. All women can be converted. Just ask Mia.  :-)
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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline Odin's Hand

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2008, 11:35:41 AM »
Kids nowadays will probably get bored with Plato's The Republic and Hobbes' Leviathan, so, I won't suggest them.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 11:45:53 AM by Odin's Hand »
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Offline BEG

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2008, 11:35:48 AM »
Quote from: Rebel on September 03, 2008, 11:33:51 AM
Have her read the Cave, but keep the censor on.  :evillaugh:

She'll be converted. All women can be converted. Just ask Mia.  :-)

MIA just wants one more "wild ride" before she "grows up" and Obama is that ride.   :-)
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Offline Toastedturningtidelegs

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2008, 11:36:54 AM »
Quote from: Rebel on September 03, 2008, 11:16:24 AM
Call'em a buncha f'n morons and then continue on with a profanity-laced tirade like I do.  :-)
Well it works for me! :-)
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Offline Miss Mia

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2008, 11:51:46 AM »
Quote from: Rebel on September 03, 2008, 11:33:51 AM
Have her read the Cave, but keep the censor on.  :evillaugh:

She'll be converted. All women can be converted. Just ask Mia.  :-)

Quote from: BEG on September 03, 2008, 11:35:48 AM
MIA just wants one more "wild ride" before she "grows up" and Obama is that ride.   :-)

LOL  :rofl:

I have been reading my Fair Tax books, Rebel.  :)



BEG, honestly, I don't have any suggestions on a book that wouldn't bore her to death (or be too "adult").  I learned about politics by listening to my parents growing up.  Then as I moved into college learned more and have been able with talking with others and such form my opinions.  I might recommend, instead of just going political, discuss the founding of the great country.  David McCullough's 1776 is a great book, but she might find it a little boring. 
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Offline Chris

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2008, 11:57:28 AM »
Ayn Rand has some short books that are good ("Anthem", "The Fountainhead").  Aldous Huxley is okay, but I wasn't all that impressed with "Brave New World". 

I had an extensive book list that had some that were suitable for 14- and 15-year-olds, but I lost it when I had to do an OS reload.
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Offline Miss Mia

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2008, 12:19:56 PM »
Quote from: Chris on September 03, 2008, 11:57:28 AM
Ayn Rand has some short books that are good ("Anthem", "The Fountainhead").  Aldous Huxley is okay, but I wasn't all that impressed with "Brave New World". 

I had an extensive book list that had some that were suitable for 14- and 15-year-olds, but I lost it when I had to do an OS reload.

I always like Huxley.  I also like his book Island.
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Offline Chris

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2008, 12:21:58 PM »
Quote from: Miss Mia on September 03, 2008, 12:19:56 PM
Quote from: Chris on September 03, 2008, 11:57:28 AM
Ayn Rand has some short books that are good ("Anthem", "The Fountainhead").  Aldous Huxley is okay, but I wasn't all that impressed with "Brave New World". 

I had an extensive book list that had some that were suitable for 14- and 15-year-olds, but I lost it when I had to do an OS reload.

I always like Huxley.  I also like his book Island.

I enjoyed most of "Brave New World" but I thought the ending wasn't done very well. 
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2008, 12:22:12 PM »
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Offline Rebel

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2008, 12:36:32 PM »
Let her read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand.
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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline Tantal

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2008, 12:49:12 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on September 03, 2008, 11:16:24 AM
Call'em a buncha f'n morons and then continue on with a profanity-laced tirade like I do.  :-)
I like this one too. My daughter is fully convinced that Osama is the stupidest person on the planet, with HRC trailing in a close second-place. You can't shield them from the truth forever. :-)
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Offline RobJohnson

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2008, 01:15:59 PM »
Send her to Aunt Shadie's for a long weekend of education.  :-)
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Offline Tantal

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2008, 01:36:22 PM »
Quote from: RobJohnson on September 03, 2008, 01:15:59 PM
Send her to Aunt Shadie's for a long weekend of education.  :-)
Can I go too? :naughty:
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Offline DixieBelle

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2008, 06:28:11 PM »
Delilah posted some great home schooling/book resources on here. I'll have to dig up the thread. I bet she could even give you the names of some books that would be exactly what you're looking for.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: I need help.....
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2008, 06:29:30 PM »
Yeah, Delilah always has good advice. I hope she doesn't advise me to jump off a cliff soon; I'll probably do it.  :-)
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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site
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