When Will We Ban Military Grade Rifles

[dutch508]

Star Member stillspkg (44 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216191130

When Will We Ban Military Grade Rifles

I watched the entire video of the recent rampage of the man armed with a bicycle cable in an LA Mall. His behavior should have alarmed the security guards enough to stop him or at least detain him: carrying his bicycle up and down the escalator, threatening to drop it from the second floor onto the mall entrance below, and thrashing through the aisles. It was all visible on security cameras. He did not appear armed with any type of gun and no shots were heard, yet the LAPD, as is the case with many police units, showed up with military grade rifles. They saw a woman he had beaten and saw him, but without checking the woman’s wounds, or trying to get him to stop or talk him down, without checking around the aisles or fitting room, an officer blasted 3x with the high powered weapon designed for war.

I apologize that I don’t know much about guns and I can sympathize with what they are often up against, and yet, I can’t find any reasoning, any attempt to de-escalate or secure the area.

I have to believe carrying that type of weapon changes things in ways that makes us all unsafe.

 

Star Member lastlib (18,536 posts)

2. "Industrial-Strength Killing Machines."

We need to change the terminology of the debate toward our favor.

Ex Lurker (3,501 posts)

5. North Hollywood Bank Shootout, Feb 28, 1997

Two bank robbers with automatic weapons and body armor engaged police in a 40 minute firefight, ultimately losing their lives, but not before wounding 12 officers and 8 civilians. Bullets from the police service weapons bounced off the robber's armor. Police resorted to borrowing high powered weapons from a nearby sporting goods store. After this, LAPD patrol officers were authorized to carry long rifles.

LiberatedUSA (1,035 posts)

9. Gun safety legislation never includes the police.

Which makes a lot of statements hypocritical; such as “these weapons are only for war”. If they are only for war and war is not in a cop’s job description and a cop is not in a sanctioned war zone, then you are lying about these weapons “only being for war” if you want to ban them from everyone but let the same cops you protest for murdering people keep them.

But that is what happens. My favorite is calling them
“weapons of mass destruction” and being ok with the cops being the only ones with the rifles. Makes total sense. Some seem to not see a problem with both protesting police abuse and violence, while at the same time advocating for legislation that ensures the police are have a monopoly on modern firearms.

I guess we don’t trust the cops not to kill people, but we want them better armed than us. Wrap your head around that.

Star Member stillspkg (44 posts)

10. It's just wrong

While all of the above may be true as it is the reality we live in, I refuse to accept the use of military grade weapons in our streets.

I understand the need to defend against war, but even that has constraints: e.g. diplomacy, decades long talks to insure that nuclear weapons are never considered and checks on rogue or hostile nations to remove their capability of developing nuclear weapons.
We can and should regard the use of military grade guns in society the way nations regard the use of nuclear weapons in war.
Military grade weapons should be banned and stiff sentencing should be in place for those who purchase or own them. The police included.

 

Amishman (4,185 posts)

13. When gun culture fades in America

Which is a generational timeline at best.

When will they actually be gone? Never.

Let me explain how I see it.

The first problem is we'd have to go after all semi automatics. An assault rifle is just another semi automatic that looks different and holds more bullets. most of those that aren't an assault rifle today can be modified to be one.

Plus the gun manufacturers are quite willing to do everything they can to nullify any assault weapons ban.

Going after all semi automatics is too far of a reach, that is too big a slice of what is popular. Too many people impacted and too much backlash. To get something like that passed, you need to dramatically reduce the number of gun owners, which means cultural change.

The next part is even if we could get a ban passed, that won't make them go away. There's probably a hundred million semi automatics in this country, and we don't have registration at a national level to tell us who has them.

Worse, it's becoming easier and easier to build them at home, a trend that will only get worse as technology improves.

So what do we do? I don't know, I don't have any good answers anymore. My only thought is trying to suppress gun culture and reduce interest in guns. But even that rings hollow to me, as I find myself advocating that Democrats and especially people of color consider what they need to defend themselves given the direction this country is going.

Star Member Kaleva (29,168 posts)

14. Your post contains errors

For example:

" An assault rifle is just another semi automatic that looks different and holds more bullets. most of those that aren't an assault rifle today can be modified to be one."

An assault rifle is a weapon that is capable of either semi auto fire or automatic fire. Also, it has been illegal for some time in this country to sell semi-autos that can be easily converted to automatics.

Polybius (8,352 posts)

16. The OP did not say "assault weapons"

The OP said "Military Grade Rifles", which an AR-15 is not.

sir pball (3,877 posts)

18. Just limit the ammunition capacity, for any type of firearm.

That's really the feature that makes "assault weapons" ("assault rifle" is a fairly specific term of military art, "assault weapon" is a more nebulous popular/attempted legal definition...I prefer MSSA myself, it's more descriptive while embracing the ambiguity at the same time, but I digress) into "unchecked weapons of mass destruction" - but there's no shortage of other firearms types that can be just as devastating with the ability to rapid-swap large capacity ammo storage.

A well-worn-in pump action can actually cycle faster than a semi-auto in the right hands, and even an amateur can work it within the same ballpark as pray-n-spray, hence the recent rise of pump-action ARs. I have a lever-action rifle that I know from personal experience I can shoot just about as quickly as a semi. And if you're taking even a half-second between shots to keep some kind of aim, a bolt-action will keep pace once you've spent a day or two getting the reloading action ingrained into your muscle memory. About the only thing that won't shoot terrifyingly fast with a large magazine is a single-shot.

All of those styles are available with box magazines, which enable a more or less instant reload. That's the linchpin in the whole "wall of lead", regulate that to 5 and the skeeriest, most ebil, accessory-bedecked AR is no more dangerous than Gramps' old Remington 700 bolt-action deer rifle.

Polybius (8,352 posts)

17. 1934

That's when "Military Grade Rifles" were banned.

 

[CollectivismMustDie]

Idiots.

When the framers specified 'Arms' in the second amendment, it wasn't nerf guns they had in mind to keep the government (at the behest of jachholes like you gun hating leftists, for example) from interfering with the possession and ownership of - it was military arms.

Go **** yourself.

[ADsOutburst]

2. "Industrial-Strength Killing Machines."

We need to change the terminology of the debate toward our favor.

You've already succeeded in manipulating terminology to your advantage. The mere mention of an AR-15 provokes a visceral hatred and fear in the minds of many people. And yet, killings by rifles of any kind constitute a small fraction of homicides.

That is the definition of propaganda.

13. ... The first problem is we'd have to go after all semi automatics. An assault rifle is just another semi automatic that looks different and holds more bullets. most of those that aren't an assault rifle today can be modified to be one.

No, an assault rifle is a rifle with selective fire, the ability to toggle between single shot, burst, and full-auto. 

[Patriot Guard Rider]

 

 

It never ceases to amaze me that the DUmmies, a group of people who know so little about so much, think they know enough to dictate policy.

Me? I'm still looking for a rifle that has the shoulder thing that goes up.

[Zathras]

I have just 2 questions for the DUmbasses:

1: Does the 1st Amendment apply to radio, TV and/or the internet?

2: Does the 4th Amendment apply to electronic and/or video surveillance?

If the answer to either of these questions is yes then the 2nd Amendment applies to modern firearms.

[jukin]

This isn't about saving lives. As usual it is about control and power. The DUmmys are just useful idiots, literally and figuratively.

[SVPete]

The police officer in LA shot a thug who was assaulting and injuring people using a deadly weapon. A police officer's duty in such a situation, if possible, is to stop and apprehend the thug, dead or alive. Not drive off the thug, which would allow him/her to commit more violence elsewhere. A "fair fight" is between equals; a police officer and a thug are not equals (except to BLM/Antifoid types). A police officer should have superior force.