Donald Trump is innocent until proven guilty.

[dutch508]

kentuck (103,865 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216194043

Donald Trump is innocent until proven guilty.

He deserves all the rights of every other citizen in this country.

If he is charged with a crime, he deserves to have a trial by a jury of his "peers".

He deserves no special treatment from any former positions of power.

If there is evidence that he incited the insurrection against our Capitol and that he colluded with others to interfere with the peaceful transfer of power and the counting of the Electoral College votes, then he should be charged.

If there are other charges, they should be included.

Our Justice system cannot survive any other way.

 

Star Member CaliforniaPeggy (140,117 posts)

1. I agree--in a proper court of law. In the court of public opinion, not so much. n/t

Star Member gab13by13 (6,391 posts)

2. We already passed on charging him with campaign finance violations,

in the Stormy Daniels case, the one wher Michael Cohen went to jail. Too late, the statute of limitations has expired so I guess he got special treatment there.

Doodley (8,215 posts)

3. No, he doesn't deserve to be regarded as innocent until proven guilty.

Does Joe Biden deserve to be labeled an illegitimate president? Election officials? Do they deserve to be called frauds? Barack Obama? Did he deserve to be called illegitimate because of his alleged false birth certificate? Hillary Clinton, "worse than Watergate?"

No. But let's not dare say Donald Trump deserves to be called guilty after he has called every opponent guilty of treachery. I am sick of these double standards. I am sick of being so freaking nice. Trump could be our dictator in three years. Democracy in America could be over. What part do we not understand? Three years may be all we have. Three years. We could lose everything.

 

anti stupid (42 posts)

10. agree

There are times when individuals become so dangerous and their guilt so obvious, that time becomes extremely important in pursuing prosecution. Unfortunately, with a media propaganda machine, and an entire political party, not to mention judges, at his beckon call, our society is papalized. I have little hope that this waste of organic matter will be disposed of any time soon.

 

Star Member uppityperson (115,161 posts)

4. Only legally and in a court of law.

Here's guilty of all sorts of crap in the greater world.

And I agree with you, needs to go to trial.

 

Doodley (8,215 posts)

6. There will never be enough votes for him to be found guilty. We need to have been shouting "Guilty"

from the rooftops from Day 1, but our timidity has given him yet another free pass to plot his path to become America's dictator.

kentuck (103,865 posts)

15. "Peers" does not mean part of his cult or a loyal follower.

Star Member WarGamer (3,353 posts)

24. Sure it does.

A Jury consultant will be sure to seat 6 Trump voters on the Jury.

You think they'd get away with having 12 Biden voters on the Jury?

Star Member Mr. Ected (7,662 posts)

7. Woe be to the man who stands accused by the Great and Odious Trump

For he is guilty even if he is innocent.

Such is the case for all the incendiary fanatics that populate the MAGA population. We are Democrats, therefore we are evil, we are a threat to democracy, we should cease to have any power whatsoever in governing this country.

I stand with you, sir, but truly it requires resolve and grace that I know our philosophical counterparts do not embrace and would not pursue or honor.

 

Star Member Mr.Bill (14,914 posts)

9. When you commit a felony standing in front of a microphone

on national TV, it damn well should expedite being found guilty, though.

 

Doodley (8,215 posts)

12. You are correct, but expedite isn't a word that the Jan 6 committee are thinking about. We have

to wait until summer just to see an interim report.

FFS, as each day passes, Trump's lies still fester in the sewer that is the minds of his followers. Poll shows 70 percent of Republicans think Biden is illegitimate. Where is the messaging pushback from our side? Nowhere.

We almost lost America on Jan 6. We may not be so lucky next time if we have done nothing to attack Trump as aggressively as America has been attacked.

Star Member Mr.Bill (14,914 posts)

13. The 1/6 committee is not who will indict and charge Trump.

That's the Justice Department's job. People get charged with federal crimes all the time without Comgress being involved at all.

Star Member Generic Brad (13,516 posts)

11. Jury of his peers?

Where are we going to find a pool of 12 spoiled, white supremacist, narcissistic chunks of shit?

Star Member PTWB (3,451 posts)

14. Trump is as guilty as sin.

Just because our legal system affords (theoretically, anyway, YMMV) citizens the presumption of innocence does not have a damn thing to do with actual guilt or innocence.

We saw Trump incite the riot on live television. There is no question that he is guilty.

I'll use an extreme analogy to make my point: let's say a mobster is filmed committing a cold blooded murder but successfully threatens the jury and is acquitted--does that mean he wasn't guilty or didn't commit the murder? No, of course not. It means he wasn't convicted.

Sometimes guilty people aren't even charged.

You may be shocked to learn that there are countless cases of serial killers getting away with their crimes for their whole lives, only to be discovered when they've already died or are on death's door. Does that mean that for the decades they lived among us that they were innocent? Were their victims any less dead prior to their convictions?

This is just a strange OP.

Trump is guilty. We all know he's guilty. The entire world saw what he did. If he gets charged perhaps he will be convicted, perhaps he will be acquitted, but he's still guilty as ****.

 

Star Member PTWB (3,451 posts)

18. You can change the title of your OP.

"Donald Trump has not been charged or convicted of any crime related to the January 6th insurrection."

That would be factually correct. It is factually incorrect to say that he is innocent of inciting the riot. We know he incited the riot because we saw it on live TV with our own eyes and heard it with our own ears.

 

Star Member TreasonousBastard (39,540 posts)

23. Maybe. We have had very few impeachments to guide us through this. We can thank Ford for...

clearing Nixon of all civil wrongs. Since then, we have had only Clinton's impeachment and that boiled down to a cumstain on a blue dress. Not much in the ways of American jurisprudence. Now we have the orange stain on democracy.

Trump was a crook from the word go. Unlike Nixon, he had absolutely no idea what this country was about. He knew nothing and cared less about civics, history or religion, but went on happily from mess to mess not having the foggiest idea what he was doing or where it might fit into the grand scheme of things.

So, how do we even charge a guy like that? We have to be careful in this uncharted land that we don't **** the future any more than it has been.

 

Orrex (60,559 posts)

26. In the court of law? Sure. In actual fact? He's obviously and unrepentantly guilty.

He can have his day in court (or many days in court, as it happens), but regardless he is guilty now, has been guilty for decades, and will be guilty for the rest of his terribly overlong life.

 

[Zathras]

Ahh, DUmbasses proving once again that a kangaroo court is their favorite court just like the good little fascists they are.

[DLR Pyro]

Oh, they're still harping on about this?

[jukin]

Presenting the site of sanity and reality, not to mention fairness, love, and tolerance.

[BamaMoose]

Kentuck deleted his post.  Must have realized that that it was his most lucid and reasonable post of the year and didn't want to tarnish his record.

[landofconfusion80]

Kentuck deleted his post.  Must have realized that that it was his most lucid and reasonable post of the year and didn't want to tarnish his record.

Lol, good thing we're here to record it for him!

[USA4ME]

What was even the point of that thread? Must be that the things said, things that decent and civilized people already know to be the case, is something the left has to remind themselves and their comrades is still the law.

.

[FlaGator]

With as much hate that has been pointed Trump's way don't you think someone, somewhere would have charged him for something?  He has been investigated and researched more than any living human being and they have found nothing. Heck, I couldn't have survived such scrutiny.

[ADsOutburst]

*Plays the tape of Trump's speech on 1/6.*

The prosecution:

[SVPete]

*Plays the tape of Trump's speech on 1/6.*

The prosecution:

  QFT and for being prophetic.

[SVPete]

Kentuck deleted his post.  Must have realized that that it was his most lucid and reasonable post of the year and didn't want to tarnish his record.

He was threatened with a granite pizza for posting heresy.

[ADsOutburst]

He was threatened with a granite pizza for posting heresy.

Leave it to DU to find "innocent until proven guilty" to be provocative and controversial.

[jukin]

With as much hate that has been pointed Trump's way don't you think someone, somewhere would have charged him for something?  He has been investigated and researched more than any living human being and they have found nothing. Heck, I couldn't have survived such scrutiny.

Who would have thought that bombastic playboy New York developer billionaire would be the cleanest, most ethical and moral person in all of government?

[ExGeeEye]

Who would have thought that bombastic playboy New York developer billionaire would be the cleanest, most ethical and moral person in all of government?

It's not a high bar to begin with.  I'm not certain that bar isn't actually underground.