Author Topic: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle  (Read 3510 times)

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Offline enslaved1

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Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« on: August 12, 2021, 08:31:32 AM »
Governor Abbot issued an order that there are to be no mask mandates in Texas.  Dallas county judge notorious for bucking against Abbot ruled that a couple of counties who issued their own mandates were in their legal right to do so, and said those mandates can continue.  Lawsuits are flying, and the district I work for is in Dallas county, and has decided to follow the judge's decision, so we are masking up again while waiting for the smoke to clear.  We started the year (early) with no mask requirements, but students and staff who were so inclined were allowed and encouraged.  Now we are two weeks in and getting told we want "clarification" from the system, per our superintendent's official comment this morning.   

My two bits are that Abbot went too far saying nobody can mandate masks, and that the decision needs to be ideally in the hands of individuals first, then  businesses, and at the highest levels, city or county government.  I would still rather no one mandate individuals, employees, students or customers wear a stupid mask, because of questionable effectiveness and the political weaponization of wearing and not wearing the darn things.  As long as someone benefits from the chaos, confusion, and division, it's going to continue. 

Stay tuned....
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Offline DLR Pyro

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Re: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2021, 09:54:35 AM »
Where is the order from Abbot prohibiting people from wearing a mask of submission if they chose to?
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Offline enslaved1

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Re: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2021, 10:33:09 AM »
Where is the order from Abbot prohibiting people from wearing a mask of submission if they chose to?

https://gov.texas.gov/uploads/files/press/EO-GA-38_continued_response_to_the_COVID-19_disaster_IMAGE_07-29-2021.pdf

Quote
4. To further ensure that no governmental entity can mandate masks, the following
requirements shall continue to apply:
a. No governmental entity, including a county, city, school district, and
public health authority, and no governmental official may require any
person to wear a face covering or to mandate that another person wear
a face covering; provided, however, that:
i. state supported living centers, government-owned hospitals, and
government-operated hospitals may continue to use appropriate
policies regarding the wearing of face coverings; and
ii. the Texas Department of Criminal Justice, the Texas Juvenile
Justice Department, and any county and municipal jails acting
consistent with guidance by the Texas Commission on Jail
Standards may continue to use appropriate policies regarding the
wearing of face coverings.
b. This paragraph number 4 shall supersede any face-covering
requirement imposed by any local governmental entity or official,
except as explicitly provided in subparagraph number 4.a. To the
extent necessary to ensure that local governmental entities or officials
do not impose any such face-covering requirements, I hereby suspend
the following:
i. Sections 418.1015(b) and 418.108 of the Texas Government
Code;
ii. Chapter 81, Subchapter E of the Texas Health and Safety
Code;
iii. Chapters 121, 122, and 341 of the Texas Health and Safety
Code;
iv. Chapter 54 of the Texas Local Government Code; and
v. Any other statute invoked by any local governmental entity or
official in support of a face-covering requirement.
Pursuant to the legislature’s command in Section 4 18.173 of the Texas
Government Code and the State’s emergency management plan, the
imposition of any such face-covering requirement by a local
governmental entity or official constitutes a “failure to comply with”
this executive order that is subject to a fine up to $1,000.
c. Even though face coverings cannot be mandated by any governmental
entity, that does not prevent individuals from wearing one if they
choose

Abbot never said people can't choose to wear masks, or even that businesses can't require employees or customers to wear masks, just that no Texas government, state, county or city can mandate masks.  While I don't want government imposed mandates, it still seems like cities, counties, and schools should have the option, if they really feel a mandate is necessary, and the people under those divisions can yell and scream at their elected officials, use their votes, and/or leave the jurisdiction for greener plains as they see fit while the areas deal with the reactions to their choices.   

Both sides, IMNSHO, are still politicizing and weaponizing an issue that should not be treated this way.  Let people and local organizations make their decisions, using their situation and common sense (or lack thereof) and deal with the consequences, good and bad.  Cause of we learned anything this last year and a half, it's that between kung-flu itself and the divisionary tactics used all over the place, there are going to be bad consequences no matter what actions are taken, and decisions need to be made not to eliminate those, but to mitigate them as low as possible.  Until someone finds Cadet Kirk and gets him to hack this Kobayashi Maru, we are facing what is essentially a no-win situation, at least in the eyes of folks who see the world from a zero sum viewpoint. 
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Offline Texacon

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Re: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2021, 12:01:27 PM »
I’ll stand with Abbott. Only a private business should be allowed to mandate masks. At that point I can choose to use them, or not. My government, at any level should not be allowed to mandate and not allowed to stop those who want to play the game of ‘mask up for play.’ 

The masks people are wearing do nothing and I’ve never been one to do something just because. Give me a reason and back it up, or get off my ass about me not complying.

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Offline freedumb2003b

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Re: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2021, 02:34:17 PM »
Governor Abbot issued an order that there are to be no mask mandates in Texas.  Dallas county judge notorious for bucking against Abbot ruled that a couple of counties who issued their own mandates were in their legal right to do so, and said those mandates can continue.  Lawsuits are flying, and the district I work for is in Dallas county, and has decided to follow the judge's decision, so we are masking up again while waiting for the smoke to clear.  We started the year (early) with no mask requirements, but students and staff who were so inclined were allowed and encouraged.  Now we are two weeks in and getting told we want "clarification" from the system, per our superintendent's official comment this morning.   

My two bits are that Abbot went too far saying nobody can mandate masks, and that the decision needs to be ideally in the hands of individuals first, then  businesses, and at the highest levels, city or county government.  I would still rather no one mandate individuals, employees, students or customers wear a stupid mask, because of questionable effectiveness and the political weaponization of wearing and not wearing the darn things.  As long as someone benefits from the chaos, confusion, and division, it's going to continue. 

Stay tuned....

I am SUPER pissed that Abbot did not RUN to the court to get this illegal order overturned.  The TX Governor has powers to do this as it INCREASES freedom, which is allowed.

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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2021, 04:58:10 PM »
People need to start suing mandaters for respiratory illnesses arising from the wearing of masks.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2021, 05:23:17 PM »
I’ll stand with Abbott. Only a private business should be allowed to mandate masks. At that point I can choose to use them, or not. My government, at any level should not be allowed to mandate and not allowed to stop those who want to play the game of ‘mask up for play.’ 

The masks people are wearing do nothing and I’ve never been one to do something just because. Give me a reason and back it up, or get off my ass about me not complying.

KC

100% agree. The problem is, government can't wipe its ass without getting political. GTFO of my life, gubmint. If a private entity or business wants to require people to wear a face diaper, they do so at their financial peril. I absolutely REFUSE to frequent a business that requires this BS and I will go out of my way to preach that gospel.
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Offline enslaved1

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Re: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2021, 09:00:11 AM »
Public schools are stuck in an ugly spot between business and government, have been for years.  This is just the latest example.  In many respects, we should function like a business, allowed to compete for customers and employees via various offerings and incentives to both.  But our funding is so tied to the local, state and federal governments that we get beholden to them in many ways.  Sadly we picked up the union influence problem in both a business and government way. 

With all that said, I still think Abbot should not have said there can be no mask mandates by local governments, especially schools, for the reason that we are in a DMZ between business and government.  I'm in a fortunate position that there are several districts near me and in different counties who have not mandated masks and if I don't want my kid or myself masked, we can definitely enroll her, and my wife and I can very likely get hired into those districts.  Over the summer, our district announced we were open to all cities in the area, meaning now, at the other end of the spectrum, if someone really wants their kid in a mask, or wants to teach through a mask, they can come here if their district is not mandating them.  That's how it should work.  Schools make the decisions, and face the consequences, good or bad, not be told from above, that you can't take that option.

On top of all that, the media storm, lawsuits, rebelling against the order are all fueling the moonbat minority of California transplants out here, which could lead to more blue sympathy in Texas.  We are still dealing with runaway democrat state representatives keeping us from progressing with government business, and this added chaos blows the wind towards the left, I believe. 

I hold that Abbot made a poor decision, and standing by it is hurting many things.  Will it swing my vote next governors race?  Not likely.  May it swing others?  Very possibly.   
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Offline Texacon

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Re: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2021, 10:20:40 AM »
100% agree. The problem is, government can't wipe its ass without getting political. GTFO of my life, gubmint. If a private entity or business wants to require people to wear a face diaper, they do so at their financial peril. I absolutely REFUSE to frequent a business that requires this BS and I will go out of my way to preach that gospel.


Yes sir. Money talks. As I’ve stated here before, I’ve been asked to leave seven businesses over their mask policy. I simply left and went to the next business that offered the same wares. Pain in the ass?  Yup. Still worth it?  Yup!

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Offline Eupher

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Re: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2021, 05:53:32 PM »
Public schools are stuck in an ugly spot between business and government, have been for years.  This is just the latest example.  In many respects, we should function like a business, allowed to compete for customers and employees via various offerings and incentives to both.  But our funding is so tied to the local, state and federal governments that we get beholden to them in many ways.  Sadly we picked up the union influence problem in both a business and government way. 

With all that said, I still think Abbot should not have said there can be no mask mandates by local governments, especially schools, for the reason that we are in a DMZ between business and government.  I'm in a fortunate position that there are several districts near me and in different counties who have not mandated masks and if I don't want my kid or myself masked, we can definitely enroll her, and my wife and I can very likely get hired into those districts.  Over the summer, our district announced we were open to all cities in the area, meaning now, at the other end of the spectrum, if someone really wants their kid in a mask, or wants to teach through a mask, they can come here if their district is not mandating them.  That's how it should work.  Schools make the decisions, and face the consequences, good or bad, not be told from above, that you can't take that option.

On top of all that, the media storm, lawsuits, rebelling against the order are all fueling the moonbat minority of California transplants out here, which could lead to more blue sympathy in Texas.  We are still dealing with runaway democrat state representatives keeping us from progressing with government business, and this added chaos blows the wind towards the left, I believe. 

I hold that Abbot made a poor decision, and standing by it is hurting many things.  Will it swing my vote next governors race?  Not likely.  May it swing others?  Very possibly.

I appreciate your point and thank you for taking the time to explain. I don't live in Texas and don't really have a dog in the fight. My kids are long since grown and are approaching middle age and my grandkids and great-grandkids (two of them) live in Ohio.

I might be missing something here, but I'd say that Abbott is sick and tired of leftist urban governments failing to "follow the science" and thereby adopting the leftist mantra as stupid as it is. That being, of course, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help -- as long as you do what we tell you to do. We know better than you do even when it comes to your kids."

In a certain way, Abbott is just as heavy-handed as these local governments. It's his way or the highway.

To your point about schools and governments being inextricably linked, what's that telling you about the overall school system?

Parents need options other than public schools. Shouldn't have to pay taxes to support failing school systems, either. Charter schools, anyone?
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Offline enslaved1

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Re: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2021, 08:31:20 AM »
Update: TX Supreme court temporarily strikes down county mask mandates. 

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/08/15/texas-coronavirus-supreme-court-school-mask-mandate/

Quote
The Texas Supreme Court on Sunday temporarily blocked mask mandates in Dallas and Bexar counties, marking a pivotal moment in the showdown between state and local government as coronavirus cases and hospitalizations surge in Texas.

The ruling comes after several school districts and a handful of counties across the state defied Gov. Greg Abbott’s executive order that restricted local entities from instituting mask mandates. On Friday, the 4th Court of Appeals in San Antonio upheld a lower court ruling that permitted Bexar County to require mask-wearing in public schools. Shortly after, the 5th Court of Appeals in Dallas upheld a more far-reaching order from Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins that required masks in public schools, universities and businesses.

Sunday night emails and robocalls started coming from our district that due to this decision, masks are not required, but still strongly encouraged.  Back and forth, back and forth.  Very irritating.
I appreciate your point and thank you for taking the time to explain. I don't live in Texas and don't really have a dog in the fight. My kids are long since grown and are approaching middle age and my grandkids and great-grandkids (two of them) live in Ohio.

I might be missing something here, but I'd say that Abbott is sick and tired of leftist urban governments failing to "follow the science" and thereby adopting the leftist mantra as stupid as it is. That being, of course, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help -- as long as you do what we tell you to do. We know better than you do even when it comes to your kids."

In a certain way, Abbott is just as heavy-handed as these local governments. It's his way or the highway.

To your point about schools and governments being inextricably linked, what's that telling you about the overall school system?

Parents need options other than public schools. Shouldn't have to pay taxes to support failing school systems, either. Charter schools, anyone?

I agree that Abbott is lashing out at the moonbats we have down here and trying to appeal to the live free or die folks.  This is the same governor that had a salon owner arrested during our lock down, and made sure to tell everyone that liquor stores were included as essential businesses during same lock down.  Gubernatorial election is next year, and is likely affecting his choices. 

The link between schools and government tells me parents need options, and if they don't like the government option, the money should follow the student.  I'm all for charter schools, home schools, church schools, and vouchers to help parents utilize them.  Either the public schools see their revenue going and get their heads out of their butts (along with state and federal departments of education) or the schools suffer the consequences.  It also tells me we need more non-liberals getting teaching degrees and certificates, taking jobs in the schools, speaking at school board meetings and running for school board positions, getting into places where they can effect change.   
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Offline freedumb2003b

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Re: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2021, 09:33:36 AM »
... if they don't like the government option, the money should follow the student.  I'm all for charter schools, home schools, church schools, and vouchers to help parents utilize them.  Either the public schools see their revenue going and get their heads out of their butts (along with state and federal departments of education) or the schools suffer the consequences.  It also tells me we need more non-liberals getting teaching degrees and certificates, taking jobs in the schools, speaking at school board meetings and running for school board positions, getting into places where they can effect change.

CRT will speed that process into existence.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2021, 10:01:41 AM »
Update: TX Supreme court temporarily strikes down county mask mandates. 

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/08/15/texas-coronavirus-supreme-court-school-mask-mandate/

Sunday night emails and robocalls started coming from our district that due to this decision, masks are not required, but still strongly encouraged.  Back and forth, back and forth.  Very irritating.
I agree that Abbott is lashing out at the moonbats we have down here and trying to appeal to the live free or die folks.  This is the same governor that had a salon owner arrested during our lock down, and made sure to tell everyone that liquor stores were included as essential businesses during same lock down.  Gubernatorial election is next year, and is likely affecting his choices.

All politicians screw the pooch as little as possible, then try to spin history. Abbott is no different than the rest of them.

That said, I'm pleased that the TX Supreme Court has essentially told local government to stand down.

Here's how stupid it's gotten to be in Arkansas, where Asa Hutchinson is the lame duck governor. He went with state-facility mandates for masks, including on Camp Robinson, a National Guard/Reserve facility near my home. I frequently go there to walk dogs and use the small PX. Sign on the door says (paraphrased):

"Regardless of vaccination status, it is RECOMMENDED that those personnel entering this facility wear a mask..."

I don't wear a mask when I go there, as I did this morning. A "recommendation" isn't a mandate. So why take the time to communicate all this mask crap if you're so gutless as to take a pointless position, Asa?

I guess it could be worse. This could be Commiefornia. 

Quote
The link between schools and government tells me parents need options, and if they don't like the government option, the money should follow the student.  I'm all for charter schools, home schools, church schools, and vouchers to help parents utilize them.  Either the public schools see their revenue going and get their heads out of their butts (along with state and federal departments of education) or the schools suffer the consequences.  It also tells me we need more non-liberals getting teaching degrees and certificates, taking jobs in the schools, speaking at school board meetings and running for school board positions, getting into places where they can effect change.

100% concur, but Mrs E - being a leftist and retired music teacher - thinks that vouchers are the devil incarnate. See the other side of what I have to deal with? lol Point is, we do NOT discuss politics at home. She and I are completely polarized.
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Offline enslaved1

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Re: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2021, 12:34:05 PM »
Update.  Our school board just voted to re-instate a mask mandate until October 26 or new direction is given from somewhere higher.  All students, employees and visitors have to wear masks, regardless of shot status.  If I must be told to wear a mask, I would rather be told by my employer than the state, definitely not by the feds, but the whole mess is just devolving further into confusion and political theater across the spectrum. 

The board also voted for a onetime stipend of $500 to employees who get the jab, plus another $250 if you get a booster jab. 
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Offline Texacon

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Re: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2021, 02:49:25 PM »
Update.  Our school board just voted to re-instate a mask mandate until October 26 or new direction is given from somewhere higher.  All students, employees and visitors have to wear masks, regardless of shot status.  If I must be told to wear a mask, I would rather be told by my employer than the state, definitely not by the feds, but the whole mess is just devolving further into confusion and political theater across the spectrum. 

The board also voted for a onetime stipend of $500 to employees who get the jab, plus another $250 if you get a booster jab.


And it won't be good enough.  Just read today where Israel is giving booster shots and once you receive the 3rd shot you get that super special Green Passport that will allow you to resume normal life.  2 jabs is now no longer the standard.  Those with only 2 jabs are now lower class citizens no better than the low life ne'er jabbed.

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Offline DLR Pyro

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Re: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2021, 03:54:56 PM »
I'm not a fan of giving monetary gifts to people to get vaccinated.  If they feel so strongly about not taking the shot but fold and get it because they will get a payday then it speaks volumes of their character.
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Re: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2021, 03:19:24 AM »
I grow ever more weary of private businesses, which frankly, more visibly "govern" the lives of their customers and employees than any branch of government aside from the police do, being able to do things to We the People that the government itself is forbidden to do.

First Amendment: YouTwitFace can violate on a whim.

Second Amendment: don't get me started about "you can't even lock it in your car on company property no matter whose 'permission slip' you have managed to obtain."

Mask Mandates: the governor of a state can order that they can't be forced on the People... except by other People, I guess.

Proposed Constitutional Amendment:

"Any act which, if committed by a government or agent thereof, is illegal, is likewise illegal when committed by a private citizen or organization."

Change my mind....
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2021, 03:51:18 AM »
I grow ever more weary of private businesses, which frankly, more visibly "govern" the lives of their customers and employees than any branch of government aside from the police do, being able to do things to We the People that the government itself is forbidden to do.

First Amendment: YouTwitFace can violate on a whim.

Second Amendment: don't get me started about "you can't even lock it in your car on company property no matter whose 'permission slip' you have managed to obtain."

Mask Mandates: the governor of a state can order that they can't be forced on the People... except by other People, I guess.

Proposed Constitutional Amendment:

"Any act which, if committed by a government or agent thereof, is illegal, is likewise illegal when committed by a private citizen or organization."

Change my mind....

Not me. It's infuriating when the government enlists the resources, will, and power of private business to usurp the Constitution. Mask and vaccine mandates are especially egregious. They cloak it all in that "condition of employment" garbage.

About 18 months ago, my employer (I work solely part time in my more-than-semi-retirement) mandated getting the bullshit flu shot (not Covid -- just the flu-flavor-of-the-month). I told my boss, "Nuh uh. No medical reason necessarily, I'm simply not going to have an employer tell me what I have to stick in my arm. When do you want my resignation?"

He backed off and got the HR Manager off my back as well. I still work there, part-time.

They did offer (key word there), and I accepted, getting the Pfizer jabs. No mandate.
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Offline ExGeeEye

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Re: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2021, 06:26:30 PM »
Maybe I was unclear.

My intent was that, under my amendment, if the government cannot do a thing under the Constitution, it cannot enlist "the resources, will, and power of private business to usurp the Constitution", because doing so would cause the private business to commit a felony.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2021, 06:34:32 PM »
Maybe I was unclear.

My intent was that, under my amendment, if the government cannot do a thing under the Constitution, it cannot enlist "the resources, will, and power of private business to usurp the Constitution", because doing so would cause the private business to commit a felony.

Not arguing with your intent at all -- but I do think that you'll run into issues with the rest of the Amendments (1st, 4th, 5th) insofar as what COTUS expressly mandates what the feds can do, leaving the rest to the States (9th and 10th amendments in particular).

Having private businesses act as proxies for the federal government does an end-around COTUS which is NOT what the framers intended.

Just needs some tweaking of the language, I think. The lawyers are good at that.  :-)
Adams E2 Euphonium, built in 2017
Boosey & Co. Imperial Euphonium, built in 1941
Edwards B454 bass trombone, built 2012
Bach Stradivarius 42OG tenor trombone, built 1992
Kanstul 33-T BBb tuba, built 2011
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2021, 07:36:49 PM »
Having private businesses act as proxies for the federal government does an end-around COTUS which is NOT what the framers intended.

I private entity acting at the unction of the state is a state actor:

https://blogs.lawyers.com/attorney/civil-rights/private-parties-as-state-actors-for-purposes-of-section-1983-24284/
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Mask war in TX, and I'm in the middle
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2021, 07:51:21 PM »
I private entity acting at the unction of the state is a state actor:

https://blogs.lawyers.com/attorney/civil-rights/private-parties-as-state-actors-for-purposes-of-section-1983-24284/

The legalese gobbledygook notwithstanding, my point stands. The FRAMERS intended no such bullshit.
Adams E2 Euphonium, built in 2017
Boosey & Co. Imperial Euphonium, built in 1941
Edwards B454 bass trombone, built 2012
Bach Stradivarius 42OG tenor trombone, built 1992
Kanstul 33-T BBb tuba, built 2011
Fender Precision Bass Guitar, built ?
Mouthpiece data provided on request.