Author Topic: I just think Trump should face a real jury, judge, and penalty over this.  (Read 187 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dutch508

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11000
  • Reputation: +1312/-1012
  • Remember
Quote
garybeck (9,597 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215020699

I just think Trump should face a real jury, judge, and penalty over this.

Perhaps I will be flamed for this.

I understand the reasons for impeachment and agree with the reasons and motivations. But I believe the Senate is not the best place for the evidence to be laid out, a verdict to be reached, and a punishment to be decided.

Everyone says "no one is above the law, not even the President."

Inciting a riot, leading a coup attempt, calling a Secretary of State and telling them to change the election results, these things are illegal and punishable in a regular court. I believe he should be tried by a jury of his peers, with an impartial judge, and face real jail time if convicted.

We are getting none of those in the Senate.

While I agree with the democrats on virtually everything, they are politicians. Their job is to be political. by definition, impeachment is a political act.

Even if convicted in the senate, we will forever hear that it was a political move and the dems just wanted to damage trump for political reasons.

and the political football will go back and forth, next time the republicans are in control of congress with a democratic president, they will take their turn. and we already know, they will search and find some meaningless thing (like lying about having consensual sex) to do it with.

If this was going to take place in a real court, the consequences would be higher. Trump could be placed in jail.

Nothing would stop Congress from having a vote on the 14th amendment and banning him from seeking office in the future. That would be perfect AFTER convicted in a real court. In fact his conviction would be part of the reason he should not be allowed to run/serve again.

I'm also concerned that if Trump is not convicted in the Senate, they will use that as a legal argument of double jeopardy and say he can't face another trial (with a real judge and jury and jail time) for the same charges. I don't know if that legal argument really holds water but it won't stop them from trying.

Another disadvantage of having this happen in the Senate is, that even though they are in the minority, the Republicans will get time on the microphone to rant about how this whole trial is a waste of time and a farce. that would not happen in a real court and a real trial.

So, with my main goals being:
-impartial jury
-real judge
-appropriate punishment
-no air time for republicans to mock the process
-keeping politics out of the story and focusing on the facts

I question the move to impeach Trump in Congress when it will forever be regarded as a political move.

Yes, no one is above the law. Trump must be held to account, and the others who enabled the attack too. I just believe we would be better served if this is done in a regular court of law with an impartial judge, jury of peers, and real consequences if convicted.

ON EDIT:
I would add that Congress SHOULD be conducting investigations and hearings. that is their job. and they can hold hearings. and all the evidence from their investigations and hearings should be used in a real court trial.

OK, I'll start... can you name the statute of criminal code violated by Trump?

Inciting a riot

18 U.S. Code § 2102.Definitions
(a)As used in this chapter, the term “riot” means a public disturbance involving
(1) an act or acts of violence by one or more persons part of an assemblage of three or more persons, which act or acts shall constitute a clear and present danger of, or shall result in, damage or injury to the property of any other person or to the person of any other individual or
(2) a threat or threats of the commission of an act or acts of violence by one or more persons part of an assemblage of three or more persons having, individually or collectively, the ability of immediate execution of such threat or threats, where the performance of the threatened act or acts of violence would constitute a clear and present danger of, or would result in, damage or injury to the property of any other person or to the person of any other individual.

(b)As used in this chapter, the term “to incite a riot”, or “to organize, promote, encourage, participate in, or carry on a riot”, includes, but is not limited to, urging or instigating other persons to riot, but shall not be deemed to mean the mere oral or written (1) advocacy of ideas or (2) expression of belief, not involving advocacy of any act or acts of violence or assertion of the rightness of, or the right to commit, any such act or acts.

leading a coup attempt

18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.


election interference

18 U.S. Code § 595 - Interference by administrative employees of Federal, State, or Territorial Governments
Whoever, being a person employed in any administrative position by the United States, or by any department or agency thereof, or by the District of Columbia or any agency or instrumentality thereof, or by any State, Territory, or Possession of the United States, or any political subdivision, municipality, or agency thereof, or agency of such political subdivision or municipality (including any corporation owned or controlled by any State, Territory, or Possession of the United States or by any such political subdivision, municipality, or agency), in connection with any activity which is financed in whole or in part by loans or grants made by the United States, or any department or agency thereof, uses his official authority for the purpose of interfering with, or affecting, the nomination or the election of any candidate for the office of President, Vice President, Presidential elector, Member of the Senate, Member of the House of Representatives, Delegate from the District of Columbia, or Resident Commissioner, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

This section shall not prohibit or make unlawful any act by any officer or employee of any educational or research institution, establishment, agency, or system which is supported in whole or in part by any state or political subdivision thereof, or by the District of Columbia or by any Territory or Possession of the United States; or by any recognized religious, philanthropic or cultural organization.

So- when and exactly where and how did Trump violated these statutes?

I'll wait...

Quote
Star Member lisa58 (5,095 posts)

11. The point of the senate convicting and removal from office

Is so he can be tried criminally- he can be tried criminally today because he is not the sitting President. Removal from office is not based on criminal law

 :whatever:

Quote
Victory at Yorktown (29 posts)

3. I totally agree - the Republican Senators are already making this a farce. Take it to real court.

Quote
wiggs (6,546 posts)

6. Good analysis. I vote to do both, however. Start trial in the senate, let the indictments start

rolling in from feds, states concurrently. Indictments will help the trial, putting pressure on gop senators

 :censored:

Quote
Star Member Zoonart (7,383 posts)

8. Certainly if he is not convicted

In the Senate, the Impeachment managers will have laid the predicate for indictment from the DOJ.

Quote
Star Member PuppyBismark (553 posts)

14. Who cares what the impeachment trial results are?

The law is the law. He broke a number of laws and MUST stand trial for all of them. The new DOJ needs to do their job or a special prosecutor does their job. Then there should be trials and judgements rendered.

That is the American legal system and he and his party need to learn it!!

Really? What laws were broken?

Quote
wiggs (6,546 posts)

10. impeachment is based on the one incitement article and I hope there are

indictments related to that upcoming. But since Trump has been a criminal his entire life I EXPECT many other kinds of indictments and civil suits to happen at some point soon, especially with respect to more recent white collar crime.

Quote
Star Member Demsrule86 (51,336 posts)

16. The problem is that Trump is going to say he was found 'innocent' and claim exoneration.

I wish we were not even having a Senate trial and lead towards censure...the crap he did will still come out during the trials of those indicted. I don't believe we will change minds and the GOP will undoubtedly call witnesses that claim the election was stolen...we don't need to give that lie more publicity.

Quote
Star Member stillcool (30,855 posts)

12. Destroying a Democracy is political

and requires criminal actions to achieve. I don't care about the end results, but I do want every scrap of evidence presented for all to see, and become part of the record. Any crimes committed outside the scope of the articles of impeachment can be brought to a criminal court....but won't that be too political?

 :whatever:

Quote
Midnight Writer (9,939 posts)

15. So where do you seat a criminal jury that doesn't have at least one MAGA on it?

The Senate won't convict, but I doubt the courts will do any better.

All Trump needs is a jury trial.

All we can do is the right thing. Charge him, present the evidence in an open trial, and push for justice.

I have no problem with lost causes, as long as they are the right causes.

Quote
Star Member Turin_C3PO (5,338 posts)

20. Try him in DC.

Only 4% voted Trump. Or Manhattan where 12% voted for him.

 :thatsright: Yeah... that's not how the Justice system works, champ.

Quote
Star Member ecstatic (28,220 posts)

21. Either we have a constitution or we don't

It's really that simple.

Try him in the Senate AND the regular courts.

Trust me, DC/NY/etc juries will lock his fat ass up.

I would love if the Atlanta DA tried him in Georgia too. I doubt they'll have the balls/ovaries due to what I've seen with regard to politics in Georgia. But if there were a trial and they called me for jury duty, I would be like, "trump who?? Oh, the nice orange fella. Yeah, I vaguely remember him. I have plenty of free time!" And before anyone judges me for being an impartial juror, trump shitted all over norms, rules and decency. He built this reaction. Karma's a bitch!

 :bird:
The torch of moral clarity since 12/18/07

2016 DOTY: 06 Omaha Steve - Is dying for ****'s face! How could you not vote for him, you heartless bastards!?!

Offline DLR Pyro

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7115
  • Reputation: +1050/-22
Quote
Everyone says "no one is above the law, not even the President."

unless the president has "bigger issues" to worry about...

Biden is an illegitimate President.  Change my mind.

Basking in the glow of my white privilege


Police lives matter.

Online 67 Rover

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4123
  • Reputation: +442/-40
It really is past time.
NRA Benefactor member
G.O.A. Life member
G.O.A.L. Life member
Certified Law Enforcement Sig Armorer

Offline DUmpDiver

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 558
  • Reputation: +59/-4
DUpipo are all for Bien's DOJ trying Trump criminally (for something he didn't do) but when Trump supporters wanted to "lock her up" for the crimes Hillary actually committed it was banana republic to do so.

 As is often stated, If Democrats didn't have double standards they'd have no standards at all.

Offline YupItsMe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1011
  • Reputation: +107/-6
Quote from: garybeck (9,597 posts)

and the political football will go back and forth, next time the republicans are in control of congress with a democratic president, they will take their turn. and we already know, they will search and find some meaningless thing (like lying about having consensual sex) to do it with.
   I'm pretty sure if that were to happen it would not be consensual and it would be with an eleven year old girl.  :censored:

Online Wineslob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13833
  • Reputation: +617/-191
  • Sucking the life out of Liberty
unless the president has "bigger issues" to worry about...





"I think I crapped my pants"
“The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.”

        -- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 55 BC (106-43 BC)

The unobtainable is unknown at Zombo.com



"Practice random violence and senseless acts of brutality"

If you want a gender neutral bathroom, go pee in the forest.

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21471
  • Reputation: +2002/-256
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
So, if Biden refuses to seek criminal prosecution does that mean he's complicit?   :popcorn:
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Online Wineslob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13833
  • Reputation: +617/-191
  • Sucking the life out of Liberty
Quote
OK, I'll start... can you name the statute of criminal code violated by Trump?


"Orange man still bad" is all these idiots need.

I seriously wonder just how demented you have to be to STILL believe "Russia! Ukraine! Sedition! No Voter Fraud!" with the literal mountain of hard evidence to the contrary.
“The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.”

        -- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 55 BC (106-43 BC)

The unobtainable is unknown at Zombo.com



"Practice random violence and senseless acts of brutality"

If you want a gender neutral bathroom, go pee in the forest.