Author Topic: Minnesota Moses explains restroom policies  (Read 623 times)

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Offline franksolich

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Minnesota Moses explains restroom policies
« on: April 17, 2018, 10:20:21 AM »
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210504666

Oh my.

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MineralMan (106,294 posts)     Tue Apr 17, 2018, 10:09 AM

The Starbuck's restroom policy sucks. Here's why it exists, though.

In most cities, public toilet facilities are few and far between. Often there is not one near where a person might have need of one. This is the source of a number of problems, since human animals need places to carry out their excretory functions.

Those humans include people who do not have the means to make a purchase in a private business. In most cities, such people are forced to do what they must do, wherever they must do them. That means a wall in an alley or any other place.

Businesses, in order to serve their customers, often have public restrooms available for those customers. That presents a problem for them, since there is a cost to providing those facilities, and their maintenance in a reasonable state of cleanliness. So, many businesses, rightly or wrongly, reserve the facilities for actual customers. Restaurants, bars, and other places where food or drink is served are required to have restrooms.

The real fault in all of this is the failure of cities to provide and maintain public restrooms that are conveniently located in places where people are. Most cities have few such facilities, typically in parks and public buildings. The cost of maintaining them is high, and they sometimes become a nuisance, when used for other reason.

Cities should make it easy for people to find places where they can relieve themselves. They do not. That leads to people attempting to use whatever facilities exist. Those are usually located in businesses.

This is a social justice issue. We fail badly at this particular, and essential service. Very badly.

People have to go. They need places to go. Businesses should not be required to fill that public need. Our cities should. That they do not is a public service failure.

That said, businesses that have public restrooms should not discriminate in their use. Their policies should be universal. Often, that is not the case. That is a social justice failure on their parts.

Well, Minnesota Moses appears to understand something many people don't; maintainence of sanitary facilities cost money, and somebody somewhere sometime has got to pay for them.

Last I checked, there is no constitutional right to use a restroom.  If one's provided, fine, great, wonderful, but if one's not provided, tough shit.

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Ferrets are Cool (1,893 posts)      Tue Apr 17, 2018, 10:18 AM

1. Mobile Alabama, a city of 200K people, where I reside....

has NO public restroom facilities. (as far as I can determine)
I would hazard a guess that "most" US cities are just like Mobile in this respect. Honestly, it is disgraceful.

It may be different now, as this was many years ago when I was in Harvard Square in Cambridge, Massachusetts.  I disremember why, but I needed to empty the bladders (usually I take care of such things before leaving home) and I wasn't keen on being a customer at one of the food joints in the neighborhood (I think because their prices were too high), which would allow me to use their facilities.

Okay, so Harvard Square's a pretty major public area, long-established, famous, well-trod, and all that, probably hundreds of thousands (I really don't know) of the public passing through every day. 

The city of Cambridge is known for its, uh, liberal tendencies, which includes providement of goods and services for people who have not the means to pay for them.

As I said, it may be different now, but at the time--the late 1980s--there was exactly one public restroom in all of Harvard Square.

One.  And it was the size of a closet, with a commode and nothing else in it.  One walked up two flights of stairs to get to it.

Now, people in Massachusetts tend to arrogantly suppose those of us who live in flyover country are uncouth savages and barbarians, but I can guarantee that any visitor to any part of Nebraska, urban or rural, will have no problem finding a public restroom quickly, and one that's convenient and clean.

I dunno where people in Massachusetts get such strange--and wrong--ideas.

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Rorey (828 posts)    Tue Apr 17, 2018, 10:37 AM

10. It stinks.

Literally.

We went to NYC last year and I was appalled. I mean, I can see that a business wouldn't want to fund a restroom for non-customers, but a lot don't even provide one for customers. We stopped in for lunch at a nice little place and I couldn't even wash my hands before eating. Fortunately I always have some hand wipes in my purse.

We were shopping in Hard Rock and my daughter-in-law thought she'd use the restroom there. There were actually security guards by the restroom doors.

The stench is enough to keep me from wanting to visit NYC often. I do want to go back and take in a Colbert show one of these days, but we'll see. I did learn that if you look for places that somewhat cater to children (like the M&M store) there are restrooms. There are long lines, and they were messy, but it was better than nothing.

***typical for a congested corruption-ridden blue city in a blue state.

Offline SVPete

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Re: Minnesota Moses explains restroom policies
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2018, 11:12:00 AM »
...
Well, Minnesota Moses appears to understand something many people don't; maintainence of sanitary facilities cost money, and somebody somewhere sometime has got to pay for them.

Last I checked, there is no constitutional right to use a restroom.  If one's provided, fine, great, wonderful, but if one's not provided, tough shit.
...

I've ragged on MM more than a few times about his downsplaining posts, but this is one case where he probably is shining a penlight on some DU folks' ignorance.
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Offline FlaGator

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Re: Minnesota Moses explains restroom policies
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2018, 01:41:31 PM »
Quote
The real fault in all of this is the failure of cities to provide and maintain public restrooms that are conveniently located in places where people are.

From what I've read about San Francisco lately, this doesn't seem to be much of a problem. The sidewalks serve as public toilets apparently.
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Offline FiddyBeowulf

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Re: Minnesota Moses explains restroom policies
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2018, 02:03:15 PM »
Quote
Rorey (828 posts)    Tue Apr 17, 2018, 10:37 AM

10. It stinks.

Literally.

We went to NYC last year and I was appalled. I mean, I can see that a business wouldn't want to fund a restroom for non-customers, but a lot don't even provide one for customers. We stopped in for lunch at a nice little place and I couldn't even wash my hands before eating. 
Considering the hygiene of most DUmmies I can understand why they would not want you to mess up their bathroom.
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Offline Old n Grumpy

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Re: Minnesota Moses explains restroom policies
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2018, 02:59:44 PM »
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That said, businesses that have public restrooms should not discriminate in their use. Their policies should be universal. Often, that is not the case. That is a social justice failure on their parts.

The Toilets in Businesses that are open to the public are not "public" toilets. they are paid for and maintained by the business. they limit access so they they can keep them in decent shape for those who work there and can't leave to go relieve themselves. Usually when toilets are open to the public they are disgusting and unsanitary.

As Fl Gator said in a lot of liberal cities you can do you business where ever, just like 3rd world countries. that may be convienient for some but not for the majority of us.

Ihave worked in manhattan and can tell you the bums piss nd vomit all over the place and most toilets in business are totally disgusting.

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Offline SVPete

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Re: Minnesota Moses explains restroom policies
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2018, 03:16:09 PM »
Quote
The real fault in all of this is 1 the failure of cities to provide and maintain public restrooms that are conveniently located in places where people are. Most cities have few such facilities, typically in parks and public buildings. The 2 cost of maintaining them is high, and they sometimes become a nuisance, 3 when used for other reason.

1 When and where did that become an obligation of cities?

2 Blame your sacred homeless and parent- and PS-coddled hooligans for that.

3 "Sex workers", MM. They're called, "Sex workers"!
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Offline DLR Pyro

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Re: Minnesota Moses explains restroom policies
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2018, 03:16:37 PM »
From what I've read about San Francisco lately, this doesn't seem to be much of a problem. The sidewalks serve as public toilets apparently.
They provide maps so you can find the nearest dumping grounds...


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Re: Minnesota Moses explains restroom policies
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2018, 03:31:10 PM »
They provide maps so you can find the nearest dumping grounds...


https://www.thrillist.com/news/nation/human-wasteland-map-plots-all-of-san-franciscos-poop

You have got to be $hitting me!  That is a real map?
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Offline freedumb2003b

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Re: Minnesota Moses explains restroom policies
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2018, 04:33:46 PM »
Quote from: franksolich
...
Last I checked, there is no constitutional right to use a restroom.  If one's provided, fine, great, wonderful, but if one's not provided, tough shit.
...

There is an elegant symmetry to that statement.
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Offline freedumb2003b

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Re: Minnesota Moses explains restroom policies
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2018, 04:34:35 PM »
They provide maps so you can find the nearest dumping grounds...


https://www.thrillist.com/news/nation/human-wasteland-map-plots-all-of-san-franciscos-poop

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Offline USA4ME

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Re: Minnesota Moses explains restroom policies
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2018, 07:43:18 PM »
Starbucks closing for a day for racial bias training has only opened the door for them to be abused by any accusation of discrimination. Normal people see through what these minority groups are claiming. Starbucks may end up losing business from customers in ways they didn't imagine.

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Offline SVPete

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Re: Minnesota Moses explains restroom policies
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2018, 07:57:18 PM »
I patronize Starchucks some, but they've earned a LOT of blue-on-blue, IMO. They need to learn the hard way why knuckling under to thugs and bullies is always a bad idea.
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Offline tuolumnejim

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Re: Minnesota Moses explains restroom policies
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2018, 08:05:11 PM »
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Offline Old n Grumpy

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Re: Minnesota Moses explains restroom policies
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2018, 08:55:48 PM »
San Francisco is the new chocolate city! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

It must be nice to live there and have to tolerate that. :thatsright:
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Offline sneakypete1

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Re: Minnesota Moses explains restroom policies
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2018, 05:55:45 PM »
Cities DO have an obligation to provide and maintain public restrooms. This is one of the "for the public good" jobs that they take on when they set out to tax citizens for the right to live there,and they start selling business licenses to individuals to operate food and drink stores.

Saying a city isn't obligated to provide public restrooms/porta johns is like saying cities aren't obligated to provide water or electricity. It is a SERVICE,and providing services to the public is why cities claim they exist.