Medicare Is Cracking Down on Opioids. Doctors Fear Pain Patients Will Suffer.

[Texacon]

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210420890

Tue Mar 27, 2018, 03:15 PM
Star Member RKP5637 (50,629 posts)


Medicare Is Cracking Down on Opioids. Doctors Fear Pain Patients Will Suffer.

So, what are those with severely chronic pain supposed to do. My hunch is the black market will flourish. IMO these decisions are outrageous!

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/health/opioids-medicare-limits.html

Critics say the rule would inject the government into the doctor-patient relationship and could throw patients who lost access to the drugs into withdrawal or even provoke them to buy dangerous street drugs. Although the number of opioid prescriptions has been declining since 2011, they noted, the rate of overdoses attributed to the painkillers and, increasingly, illegal fentanyl and heroin, has escalated.

The rule means Medicare would deny coverage for more than seven days of prescriptions equivalent to 90 milligrams or more of morphine daily, except for patients with cancer or in hospice.

Trump Offers Tough Talk but Few Details in Unveiling Plan to Combat Opioids.

“The decision to taper opioids should be based on whether the benefits for pain and function outweigh the harm for that patient,” said Dr. Joanna L. Starrels, an opioid researcher and associate professor at Albert Einstein College of Medicine. “That takes a lot of clinical judgment. It’s individualized and nuanced. We can’t codify it with an arbitrary threshold.”

I wonder if any of the DUmmies can see the correlation of this topic to the gun topic?  Naw.

RKP5637 (50,629 posts)

5. As often happens in the US, they go after the majority than focusing on where the problem is and

taking corrective action. It's a cop-out decision. I've had friends similar to your mother and they only survived with pain medication. I think they would have considered suicide to escape the pain if something like this had happened.

Same here, "I hate this knee-jerk reaction that makes life more difficult (and costly) for people who need pain medication ...)"

We often have very little control over our lives and destiny in the US. This, is yet another example.

See, I told you.

blake2012 (595 posts)

3. There are other ways to manage through pain than narcotics

Last edited Tue Mar 27, 2018, 04:13 PM - Edit history (1)

This is an epidemic that needs to be battled fiercely. I am all for making doctors more overtly prescribe smaller quantities more frequently for those with chronic pain rather than continue with over medication and addiction of our country.

Uh oh, someone wants to take their dope!  Kill the intruder!!!

MicaelS (6,820 posts)

37. Sure you're on the right website? n/t

See, I told you.

Eliot Rosewater (13,637 posts)

46. It absolutely makes my head EXPLODE that we would under medicate people with

pain from cancer, post op, etc.

No physician would want to limit pain killers in certain situations, I would hope.

Aristus (41,716 posts)

51. No. Absolutely not. Cancer patients, post-operative patients,

any patient for whom opioid treatment is appropriate will receive the appropriate prescription.

My cross to bear is the twenty year-old kid, in no acute distress, no past medical history of trauma, blood pressure, pulse and respiration all within normal limits, complaining of 10-out-of-10 pain and demanding Percocet.

His reasons:

1. It's the only thing that works!.
2. "I have a high pain-tolerance".
3. I just need a little until I can get in with a pain specialist.
4. I lost my previous prescription.
5. "They're not addictive".
6. The guy down the street precribes them.
7. I'm allergic to everything else.

Hey, don't be giving them facts and stuff, that's not cool!

More at the link, I gotta scoot, I just think it's funny they can't/don't see the direct correlation to the firearm debate.

KC

[franksolich]

I have no idea what the primitives mean by this, and they've said it lots of times:

.....the rule would inject the government into the doctor-patient relationship.....

It seems to me the government's involved in a lot of relationships, and not just medical.

I dunno if it's a law--surely it is, though--but maybe the government prohibits physicians from giving cyanide to patients.

Wouldn't that be governmental interference, if a patient might want cyanide?

It seems to me the primitives have always been selective, about where they want the government to be involved in something, and excluded from something else.  But because they're primitives, they're retarded anyway, and not worth listening to.

[thundley4]

I've been prescribed various narcotics for pain and I found that by taking them as prescribed they never gave me any "buzz" and rarely got rid of the pain completely.

Not even when I was given a prescription for morphine tablets did I get any buzz.

[diesel driver]

I've been prescribed various narcotics for pain and I found that by taking them as prescribed they never gave me any "buzz" and rarely got rid of the pain completely.

Not even when I was given a prescription for morphine tablets did I get any buzz.

I'm of the opinion if you need a certain drug, and the drug is what you need and meets your needs, you have few if any side effects from it and you will not be craving it when you no longer need it. 

It's losers like the DUmmies that abuse these drugs and make the rest of us suffer...

[SVPete]

Guess whose Administration started the opioid crack-down. Crisis-mongering and meat-ax responses have consequences.

[franksolich]

I'm of the opinion if you need a certain drug, and the drug is what you need and meets your needs, you have few if any side effects from it and you will not be craving it when you no longer need it. 

It's losers like the DUmmies that abuse these drugs and make the rest of us suffer...

That's true.

While the primitives are running around in righteous indignation that "the government" or "the doctors" are limiting access to pain-killing drugs, they ignore the real culprit here, the real reason such access is restricted--those freeloaders, usually primitives, who take the drugs and re-sell them.

Of course, the primitives have always had a problem identifying the real source of problems.

[Texacon]

I just had an artificial disc put in my neck on March the 1st. They gave me Tylenol 3 for pain. A whole bottle full of the stuff. I took maybe 6 of them. I still have a whole bottle full. Those and another pain killer, and some muscle relaxers, which I actually use or I run marathons in my sleep and wake up exhausted and with cramps in my legs, but those will go away soon.

After all that, I’m willing to dump all medications into the proper receptacle (because you should not flush them) if the DUmmies will do the same. They want to disarm me, I want to disarm them. With clearer heads we’ll have millions more voting Conservative and we’ll straighten this country out.

By the way, I was sent home on the 2nd, and was back at work the 5th, and have returned to full work status as of yesterday. I don’t need SSDI or any other bullshit.

KC

[franksolich]

They want to disarm me, I want to disarm them. With clearer heads we’ll have millions more voting Conservative and we’ll straighten this country out.

You know, sir, every body, and every body's reactions to chemicals put into it, is different.

Two weeks ago, the M.D.s gave me what I call "the gabby pills," and rather, uh, vigorously insisted that I needed them, and should take them.

Gabapentin, 300 mg capsules three times a day; I guess it's a pretty harmless pain-killer and one can take up to 9000 mg a day (ten times what I was prescribed) without ill-effects.

But because I'm hostile about putting artificial chemicals into this body, for two days I took only one 300 mg capsule every 12 hours, so as to see what would happen.

I was totally knocked out, floored, in deep sleep for 18-20 hours each day that I took them.  It's true they ameliorated pain, but they did a whole lot else.

I told the physicians I was willing to keep trying it, but only 100 mg twice a day, so I wouldn't evolve into Rip van Winkle or the big guy in Bellevue laying on the couch in front of the television.

We're still arguing about this (he says such a minimal dose won't do any good, and well, maybe it won't, but it wouldn't hurt to try), and for the duration I quit taking the drug altogether.  The problem it's meant to address is pretty bad, but it's less irksome than sleeping all day long.

[DUmpsterDiver]

Hey DUmmys, put the pill scratchier and crack pipe down and have a few shots of American Moonshine and Vas Das Blinkin' lights.

It may help cure your retardness...

[diesel driver]

Frank, after my bout with a fib back in November 2016, the doctor put me on a beta blocker and an ACE inhibitor.

At my 6 month follow up, my heart function was back within normal levels, and the doctor took me off the beta blocker.

Last month, he took me off the ACE inhibitor, because I was having almost ALL the reported side effects this drug can exibit:  profuse sweating, trouble breathing, tiredness, weight gain, etc.  He said there was no use taking it anymore, it wasn't doing me any good.  I feel like a new man!

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

When they rebuilt my leg they gave me diazepam, oxycodone, and Tramadol; enough of each for 3 to 4 doses a day for 30 with a refill.

I still have better than half of all 3 of the original order...and I'm just a timid woodland creature.

[Skul]

**
Two weeks ago, the M.D.s gave me what I call "the gabby pills," and rather, uh, vigorously insisted that I needed them, and should take them.

Gabapentin, 300 mg capsules three times a day; I guess it's a pretty harmless pain-killer and one can take up to 9000 mg a day (ten times what I was prescribed) without ill-effects.
*snip *

.
Grab-yer-pants-and is far from harmless. Major side-effects include severe allergic reaction, interaction with other drugs, drowsiness enhanced depression and suicidal thoughts.   
It is however quite effective at reducing spasticity, convulsions and internal nerve pain. If you can get by without it, good.   

[USA4ME]

Aristus

My cross to bear is the twenty year-old kid, in no acute distress, no past medical history of trauma, blood pressure, pulse and respiration all within normal limits, complaining of 10-out-of-10 pain and demanding Percocet.

His reasons:

2. "I have a high pain-tolerance".

That should be "I have a low pain-tolerance" instead. If one had a high tolerance for pain, they wouldn't need as much medication. However, if one has a low tolerance for pain.....

I do wish the primitives would pay attention to what they say.

.

[Texacon]

You know, sir, every body, and every body's reactions to chemicals put into it, is different.

Two weeks ago, the M.D.s gave me what I call "the gabby pills," and rather, uh, vigorously insisted that I needed them, and should take them.

Gabapentin, 300 mg capsules three times a day; I guess it's a pretty harmless pain-killer and one can take up to 9000 mg a day (ten times what I was prescribed) without ill-effects.

But because I'm hostile about putting artificial chemicals into this body, for two days I took only one 300 mg capsule every 12 hours, so as to see what would happen.

I was totally knocked out, floored, in deep sleep for 18-20 hours each day that I took them.  It's true they ameliorated pain, but they did a whole lot else.

I told the physicians I was willing to keep trying it, but only 100 mg twice a day, so I wouldn't evolve into Rip van Winkle or the big guy in Bellevue laying on the couch in front of the television.

We're still arguing about this (he says such a minimal dose won't do any good, and well, maybe it won't, but it wouldn't hurt to try), and for the duration I quit taking the drug altogether.  The problem it's meant to address is pretty bad, but it's less irksome than sleeping all day long.

frank, I completely understand what you’re saying. I admire your approach to this whole situation. I didn’t have any problems with the Tylenol 3, but I’ve had problems with some other meds, so I didn’t take them.

Hang strong, coach.

KC

[landofconfusion80]

I've been prescribed various narcotics for pain and I found that by taking them as prescribed they never gave me any "buzz" and rarely got rid of the pain completely.

Not even when I was given a prescription for morphine tablets did I get any buzz.

I was given morphine when I had kidney stones. That was the most glorious piss of my life, never had a need to take more than I needed though

[diesel driver]

Mrs. diesel takes gabapentin 100's for her diabetic neuropathy, it helps her pain, but it makes her have some weird ass dreams...

[67 Rover]

.
Grab-yer-pants-and is far from harmless. Major side-effects include severe allergic reaction, interaction with other drugs, drowsiness enhanced depression and suicidal thoughts.   
It is however quite effective at reducing spasticity, convulsions and internal nerve pain. If you can get by without it, good. 

That stuff is pure evil as far as I am concerned.  My Neurosurgeon put me on that to help with chronic herniated disk pain and the side effects for me were slurring speech, cloudy thoughts, stuttering, and most frustrating of all was my thinking was greatly compromised and logic just disappeared. 

As an Electro/Optic engineer I use math all day long and on that junk I had to check my work multiple times and each time I would come up with a different answer. 

I was warned to come off slowly but decided that it was so frustrating that I stopped cold. Never again.

[BadCat]

I just had an artificial disc put in my neck on March the 1st. They gave me Tylenol 3 for pain. A whole bottle full of the stuff. I took maybe 6 of them. I still have a whole bottle full. Those and another pain killer, and some muscle relaxers, which I actually use or I run marathons in my sleep and wake up exhausted and with cramps in my legs, but those will go away soon.

After all that, I’m willing to dump all medications into the proper receptacle (because you should not flush them) if the DUmmies will do the same. They want to disarm me, I want to disarm them. With clearer heads we’ll have millions more voting Conservative and we’ll straighten this country out.

By the way, I was sent home on the 2nd, and was back at work the 5th, and have returned to full work status as of yesterday. I don’t need SSDI or any other bullshit.

KC

Tex - I read somewhere that a place that even junkies won't take pills from...is used cat litter.  That's how I dispose of my leftover scripts.

[Carl]

Eliot Rosewater (13,637 posts)

46. It absolutely makes my head EXPLODE that we would under medicate people with

pain from cancer, post op, etc.

No physician would want to limit pain killers in certain situations, I would hope.

Or if you had government healthcare asshole it would be an aspirin.

[Texacon]

Tex - I read somewhere that a place that even junkies won't take pills from...is used cat litter.  That's how I dispose of my leftover scripts.

Fascinating!  I'll have to find some used cat litter.

KC

[franksolich]

Tex - I read somewhere that a place that even junkies won't take pills from...is used cat litter.  That's how I dispose of my leftover scripts.

I dunno BadCat, sir.

The minute you posted that, up popped in this mind the image of the long-ago Taverner primitive,

[FiddyBeowulf]

Critics say the rule would inject the government into the doctor-patient relationship

When someone else is paying the bills, they make the rules.

[SVPete]

When someone else is paying the bills, they make the rules.

With Medicare government is already up to its eyeballs in "the doctor-patient relationship" and has been since it started.

[BadCat]

I dunno BadCat, sir.

The minute you posted that, up popped in this mind the image of the long-ago Taverner primitive,

Well friend, if some asshole wants to dig through used cat litter and take pills he/she/it finds in there, they get what they deserve.

[USA4ME]

For decades it's been "We should be able to take any drugs we want and their should be free assistance for those who are addicts." Now we have some on that thread who recognize an opioid problem and are wanting solutions.

Look primitives, you either want this stuff out there for people to get goofed up (to which they'll become addicted, that's never been a secret that would be the case) or you don't. But don't call for eased drug laws then turn around and complain people are goofed up on drugs.

Buncha idiots!

.