http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3816298Oh my.
TwixVoy Donating Member (276 posts) Mon Aug-18-08 11:45 AM
Original message
Some people just ask for credit problems
Ok so yesterday I came over to help a cashier in electronics open an instant credit account for a customer.
He was trying to buy an $800+ TV. He was instantly approved for $500.
So he said put $500 on the new account, then he paid the rest with another credit card.
So anyway then he said "Hey I need an HDMI cable for this. Put it on my new account". So I immediately tell him "Sir you have to keep in mind you were only approved for $500, if you put it on your new account you will be in default for going over the limit". He said "It's only a going to be $20 over go ahead"
So I was like ok one more time "Sir that means you will be charged an over limit fee, and your interest rate will possibly go as high as 30%" All I got was "I'll pay it off in a month or two no big deal"
IDIOT! Here I am standing there telling him he is going to be screwed over if he puts the HDMI cable on his account and he does it anyway. No wonder the company says we make so much money off these damn cards.
Milo_Bloom (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hate to tell you something....
That was classic fraud. 95% says you had an identity theft going on right there.
TwixVoy Donating Member (276 posts) Mon Aug-18-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Highly unlikely
I checked his drivers license for our states security marks and it checked out. Our system also runs the drivers license number to make sure it matches before anyone gets approved. In order to be approved for the credit he also had to answer a series of questions and provide personal info. POSSIBLY he could have had all that info stolen and memorized, produced a fake license with the correct info, security marks, and DL number, but it's highly unlikely. It's not like you can just walk in and get a credit account with no verification.
The guy was just an idiot.
Milo_Bloom (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. That stuff is pulled from a credit report
And there is an algorythm associated with it, meaning they only have to memorize a few things...
Dl's are really easy. Could even be a stolen license with the picture altered (also fairly easy to do). There is nearly a 30 day lag time between when someone reports their license stolen and that information makes it into the credit agencies database.
It's a classic fraud item and classic fraud behavior.
TwixVoy Donating Member (276 posts) Mon Aug-18-08 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. DL numbers are NOT on credit reports
How is it the DL number matched his info? The computer checks to make sure the DL number matches what is on the states records. DL numbers are not on credit reports.
Even if his DL was stolen, how would he get his social and other info that is not on a DL?
Again, possibly it was ID theft but very unlikely considering all the info that had to check out.
Milo_Bloom (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. You can get one from the other very easily.
If you get someone's DL number, you can get their SS# (since most credit forms require both)... and visa versa and frightenly enough, much of this information is accessible. Pretty much any PI can get this information for you for a price.
That DL Match you talk about (which is technically done by the credit issuing bank) isn't doing what you think it does. It is just checking a very simple algorythm. If you crack the algorythm (which isn't THAT difficult for a professional) you can make up DL #'s that will pass that "check". If it is a "stolen" DL, there is a second check, but it takes 30 days before any license makes it into that file....
So... if you get a license, you have 30 days to go crazy. From the DL# a pro can get the SS#... then pull the credit report. Run it through the algorythm... memorize what you need and go on a spending spree.
You will find out if it was fraud in about 90 days.
Dreamer Tatum (734 posts) Mon Aug-18-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Nope.
Very, very little credit card fraud occurs on applications at point of sale. Fraudsters don't try to fit one purchase on multiple cards.
Instead, they apply remotely, or use stolen numbers to shop online.
That is why so many retailers love POS credit applications.
Milo_Bloom (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. That's simply not true.
My friend is the head of security for a region of K-Mart and one of the biggest rising problems is POS fraud, due to the easy of information gathering.
Dreamer Tatum (734 posts) Mon Aug-18-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. It IS true - I have direct and current experience with it
Neither of us will convince the other, so let's drop it.
Milo_Bloom (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Sure you do... I can explain why it is shifting though...
It involves far less risk, since it is "cash" and carry.
The internet fraud is carrying more and more risk because items have to be delivered and rings have gotten burned this way.
Gentle Giant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. And if wasn't him doing it on purpose on day one, I'm sure something else would have happened.
The companies find any excuse they can, no matter how petty, to jack up the rates on those cards. I saw it done to me when the bank said I was two days late on a payment. I had it done when a $20 cash advance behind several hundred dollars in other charges more then doubled the interest rate on the entire balance.
When things got bad for me after my mother died and my feet went out on me, causing me to be unable to work the same hours I used to, I even tried a consolidation through CCCA. Nothing like having $60 in fees assessed on one account when an eight dollar disbursement is said to be one day late.
**** 'em.
NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
5. We don't have ANY financial education programs in schools. It's really amazing to me. People graduate high school not understanding how to run a checking account.
I hope that's changing, but I doubt it. Think how much money the banks make off of ignorance!
Uh-huh. franksolich does income taxes.
franksolich is constantly amazed by that primitives spend more on credit card fees, credit card interest, and credit card penalties, than they do on groceries.
KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I'm with you on this!
I wish my high school had a kind of "practical living" class in which we would learn all about credit, interest rates, investing, bankruptcy, and the like. I would also have like to learn a little about "business" and what it takes to start and maintain a business. I think this would have been invaluable to future entrepreneurs.
NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Sadly, the sheeple are more worried about creationism and stopping sex education...they seem not to WANT their children prepared for the real world!
Hmmm. The Tarheel nurse's aide must have been looking in the mirror.
JHB (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Bring back Home Economics...for everyone
Not only for elementary finances, but for other basics that have fallen out of use...
How to sew on a button, patch, etc.;
Cooking basics (i.e., beyond boiling water or ordering take-out);
...and so on.
Combine it with ye olde boy's Shop Class for Basics of Household Plumbing, Simple Woodwork, and Don't Fry Yourself Basics of Household Electricity.
rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. There are some good curriculi for it out there...
but it doesn't hit the NCLB benchmarks, so it rarely gets used in schools.
Blame Vast Teddy, the original promoter of the No Child Left Behind Act.
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. now i will have to go find out. kids not in highschool yet. too much bullshit said about public school not true and never ending stopping of the hype.
are we sure there is not a course for this in highschool, or are we just all ignorantly jumping on a bandwagon to attack schools, bush and nclb. i hate that kind of argument.
i think the more accurate reason for this behavior is the i want attitude
rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. some schools still offer economics at the HS level.
I got my cert in Middle Childhood Education, so I only know what's out there between grades 4-9.
yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. As a mother of two teenage boys I can tell you they've never had such a class.
The other day I had to help one of my son's friends write a check. This worried me. I also reminded him to write the amount in his check register. He gave me a blank look.
They're both excellent students who have taken lots of honors and AP classes, but never been provided with a basic "here's how you live in the 21st century" class that explains how to balance check books, stay out of debt, manage budgets, not to mention "how not to electrocute yourself while changing a light bulb."
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. back in the old days our parents taught us and were also a good example
school cannot be all education all times for all kids. parent has to have an actual part in it.... BUT
two decades or more ago we did have a rquired course that covered all this stuff for exactly the reason you stated. i believe it was sophmore year
sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
8. well he ain't the rule but he is an idiot.
Most people having credit issues suddenly within the last two years got there due to global default: paying late on ANY bill kicks up all your credit card APR's, which makes it impossible to pay minimum payments, etc. etc. The credit card companies worked hard for this, and now that they have it they're trying to blame the consumer, as a rule.
I do have one thing to add: why oh why do you suppose the credit company ALLOWS overlimit? Let's chew on that for a while. That's another lobby effort that paid off for the big CC companies, including GE Credit who underwrites Lowes, Home Depot and many store credit lines. Now they're complaining that people are defaulting on significantly overlimit, when they're the ones that gave it to them.
If I were a drug dealer, I wouldn't give somebody a bunch of dope and say pay me back whenever and then try to blame the person who already didn't have any personal judgement when they got too high to pay it back. But the "kind" of drug dealer that credit card companies are love to blame the situation they created. They are 100 percent responsible. Without extending credit to high risk, no default can be entered.
I agree with the primitive, bold area above. When a credit card company allows overlimits, then I got no sympathy for the company when the primitive doesn't cough up the dough.
Credit is a two-way street, and he who gives credit is obligated to practice judgement.
And uh-oh, a new argument springs up from the primitives' armpits:
2KS2KHonda (221 posts) Mon Aug-18-08 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
14. I know you were trying to be helpful but honestly, it wasn't your place to be a financial advisor.
GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. I find it a refreshing change from all the pushy sales people who try to nickel and dime you through a smoke and mirrors game.
2KS2KHonda (221 posts) Mon Aug-18-08 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Well, it seems to me most people aren't all that thrilled with advice from strangers.
I guess not everyone feels that way.
TwixVoy Donating Member (276 posts) Mon Aug-18-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. We have a LEGAL obligation to do this
When we are offering credit and opening a new account we have to provide the customer documents and clearly state the terms of the credit to the customer.
If I sat there and did NOT explain and disclose the terms of the credit to the customer I would be setting us up for a lawsuit. We have been told by corporate that we are LEGALLY REQUIRED to disclose this information and to volunteer this information to the customer.
I was not telling him what to do - I was simply making him aware of the terms of the credit agreement, which we are legally required to do.
2KS2KHonda (221 posts) Mon Aug-18-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. I think corporate has not explained your obligations very clearly.
Once the credit was granted, your own obligation was finished...how he chose to access his line of credit is his business and I'm pretty sure you had no requirement to lecture him on how to use it. Just my opinion.
One suspects the Toyota primitive's had credit problems before.
Kerry4Kerry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
16. What amazes me about this story...
...is that you work in a store that has reasonably-priced HDMI cables available for sale, instead of the usual ridiculously overpriced Monster Cable et al mystical, pseudoscientific bullshit, the stuff that Best Buy and Circuit City always try to foist off on unknowing or gullible customers.
TwixVoy Donating Member (276 posts) Mon Aug-18-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
34. Even if that is correct
if we are going to be pushed by corporate to extend credit to everyone I do my best to make sure they understand how not to get screwed over. Maybe not part of my job, but my personal favor to them as the one being forced to push credit on them by my employer.
Javaman (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
20. Like I always say, "people are stupid".
Thus uttereth a primitive on Skins's island.
negativenihil Donating Member (409 posts) Mon Aug-18-08 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
26. HDMI cables in most every store are a rip off
It's all about monoprice.com. ~$5-$7 per cable depending on length. Yes, you read that right. Best Buy is screwing the stupid customer with it's $90 HDMI cables.
EOTE (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. That's where I get all my cables and interconnects.
Nothing frilly, just well built, dependable cables for very good prices. If you don't buy your cables there, chances are you've paid well too much. Use the money you save to buy better equipment, or just save it. But if you buy big buck, esoteric cables expecting some kind of performance increase, you've just thrown your money away.
Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
27. What's sad is that "limit" doesn't mean what it used to mean.
Once upon a time you would have been prohibited by store policy from processing a transaction that went over the limit. Store cards were pretty rigid about it. If the customer wanted to go over the limit they'd need to go through a manager.
And that's the way it should be. A limit's a limit.
Liberal_in_LA (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
30. I've been in line behind people at Sears or JCPeney who make a $20 pmt to clear enuff credit to buy some piece of crap for $20. They are at their limit, make the minimum payment, then immediately buy something for that amount. And the item being purchased in not a life or death item... it's a blouse or other worthless item. They probably have a closet stuffed full of clothing at home.
snooper2 (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-18-08 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
31. Story doesn't make sense..
so, he got a card for 500; and the sale was an EVEN ($800?) so he put $300 on a different card...
Why wouldn't he have then put the cable on that same "other" card as well?
carlyhippy (528 posts) Mon Aug-18-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. he probably didn't have 800.00 in credit left on the other card
that is why he opened another card. I have the feeling he just maxed out 2 cards on that day..and he only got 500.00 in credit, that means he didn't have too hot credit to begin with, but I guess that depends on what store this is at.
