Pantys in a wad because Obama looked so dumb: Please do not ask me to be...

[asdf2231]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3816489

Paint It Black (1000+ posts)      Mon Aug-18-08 12:27 PM
Original message
Please do not ask me to be tolerant or accept Fundamentalists
 Advertisements [?]I've seen a few posts here and there on DU taking exception to people saying bad things about evangelical fundies, saying that we should be tolerant of all religions. Sorry, but I cannot do that. I grew up in a fundamentalist household, and I am very familiar with the damage it can cause people. I have seen people harassed and brought to tears for the sin of 'backsliding'. Fundamentalism is quite different from most religions. It is based on tight control and fear. It demands strict adherence to the Bible, with the threat of Hell constantly held over you like the Sword of Damocles.

Fundamentalism is what demands that creationism be taught in science classes, that mankind coexisted with dinosaurs. There are many fundamentalists who still believe that the Earth is the literal center of the universe. Fundamentalism is what makes it okay for people to discriminate against homosexuals, and look the other way when violence is perpetrated against them. Fundamentalism is what helps keep racism alive in some areas. I still remember being taught that interracial dating was a sin, because the Bible says "be not unequally yoked" - the inference that blacks, Hispanics, Asians, etc are somehow inferior.

Most Christian denominations seem content to live their own lives without interference with society. Not so with fundamentalism. Fundamentalism seeks to enforce its own brand of morality upon everyone else. How often do you hear fundies proclaim that the US was established as a "Judeo-Christian" nation, and that we should base our laws on Judeo-Christian values?

Furthermore, to be a fundamentalist, you have to completely abandon all reason and logic. If you believe that the Earth is only 6000 years old, sorry, but you're an idiot. If you believe that man and dinosaurs lived together, you're an idiot. I've actually heard some pastors teach that dinosaurs never even existed, that God simply planted the fossils into the ground to confuse people. WTF? One the one hand, they want us to believe that God loves everyone and wants us all to be saved, but then God goes and deliberately tries to **** with people like this?

Ah man those ****ed up Christians expecting you to adhere to the word of God and all that tripe... 

YOY  (1000+ posts)      Mon Aug-18-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Tell that to some folks around here...
 Edited on Mon Aug-18-08 03:07 PM by YOY
I get the idea some DUers think all Catholics are second to fundies in the RW arena. Granted the single issue Abortion voters try to justify their vote by attempting to follow suite on the rest of the "Conservative Philosophy" but just end up being the most hypocritical Catholics in the church.

Meh...I've lost my faith. I just get disgusted by folks who think losing their faith and hating their former faith are not mutually inclusive.

Donald Ian Rankin (1000+ posts)       Mon Aug-18-08 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. Do you want them to be tolerant and accept you?
 If not, fair enough.

Paint It Black (1000+ posts)      Mon Aug-18-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. Doesn't matter what I want
 With fundamentalists, their way is the ONLY way. Everyone else is doomed to hell. They would no more accept a moderate Christian than they would a Mormon, Wiccan, Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, or atheist. 

backscatter712  (1000+ posts)      Mon Aug-18-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. They're not going to be tolerant. Why should I?
 They've abandoned all reason and logic and concluded the big guy in the sky wants them to shove their religion down our throats.

They won't respect our views, so why should I respect them?

Raksha (1000+ posts)      Mon Aug-18-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
41. WTF is that supposed to mean?
 Edited on Mon Aug-18-08 02:49 PM by Raksha
Re Do you want them to be tolerant and accept you?
Fundamentalists are the original "my way or the highway" people. Even their definition of religious freedom isn't the same as ours. To them, religious freedom means their "God-given right" (literally!) to impose their beliefs on everyone else.

WHEN they are tolerant of me and and accept me (by MY standards, not theirs!) then maybe I'll think about returning the compliment. But since that's never going to happen, I'm not even going to pretend to accept them.

 

RainDog  (1000+ posts)      Mon Aug-18-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
42. the point is that THEY DO NOT accept others' povs
 and not only do they not accept others' have a right to another pov, they try to make YOUR LIFE suffer because of their pov -

for instance - birth control and humanitarian aid for Africa. Our govt. doesn't do the right thing b/c of fundies here who want to press their beliefs on foreign policy.

for instance - trying to teach myth as science.. and basically creating a large subsection of the U.S. population that is totally brainwashed and ignorant about biological science.

for instance- trying to make it legal to deny women access to birth control, not just abortion, because they don't like it if females don't want to get preggers.

And my problem is not limited to American protestant fundies - I have this same issue with Islamic fundies, or Hindu fundies...

And since they want to treat females as second class citizens in this nation, then, no, I DO NOT have to accept them. I do not have to accept that they want to take away my rights in this nation. They do this repeatedly on a variety of issues. Frankly, fundies are my political enemies when they are involved in politics. It is when they try to insert their religious idiocy into public life that we all have a problem - a constitutional problem, in fact. 

closeupready (1000+ posts)       Mon Aug-18-08 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. You're absolutely right. Individuals have NO responsbility to 'tolerate' hatemongers, period.
 The state may be restricted from interfering, but individuals are certainly not, and I don't want to hear that crap, anywhere, anytime, anyhow.

Do you realize they actually DEFEND hate? That if you hate what we think God hates, then your hate is 'good'. If you go so far as to say that 'hate is good', you are disgusting and promoting evil.

The Backlash Cometh  (1000+ posts)     Mon Aug-18-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
27. Very difficult to respect a religion that requires their way, or the highway.
 That kind of intolerance leads to war, especially when they plan on using that influence to reward those who think like them, and punish those who don't. When people like that control your livelihood, then they are a threat to the public welfare and Constitutional rights should not be higher for them, than anybody that they're targeting.

theboss  (1000+ posts)      Mon Aug-18-08 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
30. A religion based on control and fear? I never heard of such a thing.
 I just spent a weekend dealing with my fiancee's wedding shower. You ever get 50 women who all went to Catholic School in a room together?

If we could have channeled the guilt, fear, and anger...we could have powered Philadelphia for a weekend.

PurgedVoter (519 posts)       Mon Aug-18-08 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
47. I always considered myself a fundamentalist
 And I pretty much agree with you. But then, Jimmy Carter is a fundamentalist, and he is my hero. I always thought of a Fundamentalist as someone who actually reads the Bible and tries to figure out what it is saying. That is what Fundamentalists think makes the difference in their faith. But then anyone who reads what Jesus said, and comes up with a conservative view, is a loony. Anyone who believes in Biblical inerrancy has not read the Bible with comprehension.

I guess I need to grow up and realize that Fundamentalists are not people who examine the fundamentals of their faith. Fundamentalists are what they are, across the world, across history and across cultures and faiths. An occasional fundamentalist really does look at the history and wisdom of their ancestors. The rest just use it for window dressing as they enjoy abusing others and claiming authority.

The 'Fundamentalism' stance has been used by snake oil salesmen since the beginning of time to manipulate and loot others. Generally it is used like 'patriotism' is. A lie to justify the exact opposite of what the meaning of the concept is. In small tribes, fundamentalism is part of the rot on real traditional values. In Islam, fundamentalism is a rot on their faith. Fundamentalism is pretty much the opposite of Christianity.

'Fundamentalism' is what Jesus spoke out against in his day. And fundamentalism is what killed him. Very interesting when you compare it to knowledge of the faith, Jesus came out as pretty well researched. The outcome was preordained, Fundamentalists hate people who are compassionate or liberal.

Real fundamentalism, I always believed, would put compassion and others first, first. Not second, third or off the table. So do 'Fundamentalists' or Conservatives have a clue about their faith? No, they killed Jesus.

 

[Airwolf]

Wait till some Muslim terrorist from AQ or the Taliban shows up and demands they convert to Islam. I bet the first words of protest from them will sound an aw full lot like someone choking on their own blood as they see their life pass on.

[JohnnyReb]

Wait till some Muslim terrorist from AQ or the Taliban shows up and demands they convert to Islam. I bet the first words of protest from them will sound an aw full lot like someone choking on their own blood as they see their life pass on.

When the "Big Guy" in the sky is muslim, they'll be the first and the quickest to prostrate themselves 5 times a day. Besides, Islam allows one to steal, rape, murder unbelievers, etc., it's the perfect religion for DUmmies.

[jtyangel]

backscatter712  (1000+ posts)      Mon Aug-18-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. They're not going to be tolerant. Why should I?
 They've abandoned all reason and logic and concluded the big guy in the sky wants them to shove their religion down our throats.

They won't respect our views, so why should I respect them?

What it 'means' is that if you are going to sit here and preach tolerance of everything else other the sun then you should be consistent in your tolerance and love and tolerate even in the face of what you consider hatred. What even some of the brighter on DU are saying is that if you can't tolerate 'them' then you have no business calling them out on not tolerating someone else ie you are a hypocrite.

This seems very simple and is the reason the doctrine of "tolerance" doesn't work in the real world because human beings are totally incapable of being tolerant and turning the other cheek when confronted with something abhorrent to them. We also aren't real good with consistency like how Palestinian aggression in the name of their religious claims is 'tolerated' while saying an opinion of religious belief here firmly, but not accompanied with aggessive actions the guise of fundamentalism is not. DUers simply can never live up to the lofty ideals they like to express.

[franksolich]

This seems very simple and is the reason the doctrine of "tolerance" doesn't work in the real world because human beings are totally incapable of being tolerant and turning the other cheek when confronted with something abhorrent to them.

We also aren't real good with consistency like how Palestinian aggression in the name of their religious claims is 'tolerated' while saying an opinion of religious belief here firmly, but not accompanied with aggressive actions the guise of fundamentalism is not.

Damn, you're good, madam.

[LC EFA]

Quote
backscatter712  (1000+ posts)      Mon Aug-18-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. They're not going to be tolerant. Why should I?
 They've abandoned all reason and logic and concluded the big guy in the sky wants them to shove their religion down our throats.

They won't respect our views, so why should I respect them?

DUmmies, sodomites, and militant atheists. Take special care to note the highlighted line. This, is the double edged sword that you refuse to recognize.

[asdf2231]

YOY  (1000+ posts)      Mon Aug-18-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Tell that to some folks around here...
 Edited on Mon Aug-18-08 03:07 PM by YOY
I get the idea some DUers think all Catholics are second to fundies in the RW arena. Granted the single issue Abortion voters try to justify their vote by attempting to follow suite on the rest of the "Conservative Philosophy" but just end up being the most hypocritical Catholics in the church.

Meh...I've lost my faith. I just get disgusted by folks who think losing their faith and hating their former faith are not mutually inclusive.

Uhm, ok enlightened and smarter than everyone else liberals.  How does one "follow suite"?

Concurrant bookings? 

[jukin]

The DUchebag's tolerance is their tolerance and everyone els'e tolerance is the DUchebags.

[MrsSmith]

Yet more proof that most DUmmies and a lot of libs are completely unable to tolerate anyone whose opinion differs, regardless of the treatment they receive from those who disagree.  Seriously, you read the rant and get the idea that someone, somewhere said something that hurt Paint's feelings, so now he/she/it is correct to display and preach intolerance...regardless of how much that may hurt the others.  Forgiveness, "turn the other cheek," true tolerance is an anathema to them.  If those considered "fundies" were truly at all as intolerant as the DUmmies and libs, they wouldn't even be here.  Consider the way the Democrats treated blacks...if Christians were any where as intolerant as these "diversity worshippers" think, they'd be silenced, websites shut down, lynchings would be threatened...   

[Duke Nukum]

closeupready (1000+ posts)       Mon Aug-18-08 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. You're absolutely right. Individuals have NO responsbility to 'tolerate' hatemongers, period.
 The state may be restricted from interfering, but individuals are certainly not, and I don't want to hear that crap, anywhere, anytime, anyhow.

Do you realize they actually DEFEND hate? That if you hate what we think God hates, then your hate is 'good'. If you go so far as to say that 'hate is good', you are disgusting and promoting evil.

So, then, individuals have no "responsbility" [sic] to 'tolerate' the "hatemongers" [sic] on the left either.

The Backlash Cometh  (1000+ posts)     Mon Aug-18-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
27. Very difficult to respect a religion that requires their way, or the highway.
 That kind of intolerance leads to war, especially when they plan on using that influence to reward those who think like them, and punish those who don't. When people like that control your livelihood, then they are a threat to the public welfare and Constitutional rights should not be higher for them, than anybody that they're targeting.

No one is more "my way or the highway" then the elitist pseudo-intellectual left.

It seems like every argument made in this DUmmie thread could apply to both the hated "fundies" and the Marxists.  Political Correctness is all about intolerance.

[MrsSmith]

The Backlash Cometh  (1000+ posts)     Mon Aug-18-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
27. Very difficult to respect a religion that requires their way, or the highway.
 That kind of intolerance leads to war, especially when they plan on using that influence to reward those who think like them, and punish those who don't. When people like that control your livelihood, then they are a threat to the public welfare and Constitutional rights should not be higher for them, than anybody that they're targeting.

Fat Lesbians on Crack
by Mike S. Adams

So this lesbian goes walking into a counselor’s office to get help with her same-sexed relationship. Actually, it sounds like the start of a really bad joke but it isn’t. The counselor’s name is Marcia Walden. In addition to being a counselor she is a devout Christian who believes it is immoral to engage in same-sex relationships. So she faced a tough decision when Jane, her prospective client, sought help resolving problems in her lesbian relationship.

Rather than misleading her, Marcia decided to tell Jane about her religious conflict, indicating that it would be unfair for her (Jane) if she were to serve as her counselor. But she remained helpful and offered to refer Jane to another counselor named Ken Cook.

Jane met with Mr. Cook just ten minutes later and even acknowledged that her counseling experience was “exemplary.” Mr. Cook told Marcia she had done the “right thing” by making the referral. For awhile everyone seemed happy, if not gay.

>>>

On August 30, 2007, Christie Zerbe, a Center for Disease Control employee, sent an email demanding Ms. Walden’s removal solely because she referred Jane to another counselor. Without the benefit of any effort to accommodate her religious beliefs and practices, Walden’s employment was terminated.

Now, which "religion" requires "my way or the highway?"    hypocrites!!

[rich_t]

These homosexuals do not want mere acceptance.  They demand approval.

I for one, am damn tired of having their diviant behavior forced down our throats.

[USA4ME]

They complain about things they can't control.  Pfffft!  Let 'em.  It's all they can do.

.

[ReaganForRushmore]

Let's see............the DUmmies blister anyone who professes to have a religious foundation and a belief in God, yet want Ghia or healing white light when circumstances turn against them.

[Happy Fun Ball]

Paint It Black (1000+ posts)      Mon Aug-18-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. Doesn't matter what I want
 With fundamentalists, their way is the ONLY way. Everyone else is doomed to hell. They would no more accept a moderate Christian than they would a Mormon, Wiccan, Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, or atheist. 

RainDog  (1000+ posts)      Mon Aug-18-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
42. the point is that THEY DO NOT accept others' povs
 and not only do they not accept others' have a right to another pov, they try to make YOUR LIFE suffer because of their pov -

Dozens of tombstoned Hillary supporters are unavailable for comment.