http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6639762Oh my.
This bonfire's burning hot, hot with Hate.
redstate_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-15-08 12:41 PM
Original message
PUT THE SHOE ON THE OTHER FOOT
What if Barack Obama had lost the primary. What if Hillary had a great campaign, raised a ton of money, had a real grassroots organization, studied and perfected the Caucus process, played by the rules, got the most delegates, got the most VOTES without even counting the caucus states, won the most states, and didn't run a negative campaign.
Now, what if the loser, Barack Obama, burnt through almost all of his money before February 5th, lost most of the caucuses due to non-preparation, voted for the IWR and refused to apologize until after it became a political necessity, didn't have any ground game at all, only started demanding that MI and FL be seated until after it became clear he couldn't get "within 100 delegates" without them, won fewer states, and ran a negative campaign saying the following remarks:
1. "I know I am ready on day one, I know McCain is ready on day one, but Hillary, she just has Bill Clinton to thank for where she is".
2. "Hillary hasn't crossed the CIC threshhold. McCain and I have."
3. "Hillary is not a murderer, as far as I know"
4. "I have the votes of hard working Americans, black Americans. It is clear that she does not have the key constituent group to win in November"
5. "Yeah, Hillary won in the state of California, but so did Boxer and Feinstein"
6. "This whole thing is a fairytale"
7. "I'm staying in because ... Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June"
8. "I have the base, Blacks, people making over $50k, and the youth vote. Hillary's coalition isn't enough."
and continually eluded to how he was truly the American in the race and that she was just there.
What if he had run on a theme of "experience", without having any executive experience, and she had run on a theme of Change, a clearly winning position in this election against McCain?
And after all of this, what if when she had won the nomination, he refused to concede and vowed to have his supporters voices heard one way or another. And since then, what if he kept harping on about his supporters' voices being heard and a need for a catharsis? What if Michelle Obama, when asked whether or not Hillary is prepared, she said, "Well, no one can really be prepared on the first day". What if the Obamas kept telling everyone "She Can't Win!!". What if Obama blamed his lost on racism in the media and by the voters and demanded that the DNC do something about it.
What if, during all of this, people felt they had to tip toe around Obama and give in to his and his supporters' every demand and whim? What if a group formed called PUMA? The main gripe of this group is that they feel like Blacks weren't treated fairly during the process and they want to protect Democratic voters, the assumption being that "real Democratic voters" are Blacks and the rest of Obama's supporters, not Hillary's. What if they claimed that Hillary only became the nominee because of "unfair" Caucuses both agreed to and the fact she is a woman. What if these people spread vicious rumors about Hillary being a murderer, not really an American, a cocaine addict, about her lying about being heterosexual, about her birth, about Bill Clinton working for the Saudis and undermining Americans, etc. WHat if this group vowed to shut down the Convention and remove the DNC leadership because they are mad a Black didn't get the nomination this time and it is THEIR TIME AND IT IS OWED TO THEM.
What if all of Obama's and his supporter's concerns were included in the platform and Michelle, Barack, and Malia and Sasha got prime speaking slots at the Convention. Obama got Axelrod to produce his only video, bypassing the DNC and Hillary Campaign? And what if through all of this, Obama was demanding that Hillary pay off his campaign debt...debt he amassed when it was clear he would not win.
What if through all of this, a bout 20% of Obama's supporters said they would not vote for Hillary because either she is white, not a man, or not a real Democrat. And Obama said nothing or did nothing to shut these people down.
What if the shoe were on the other foot? How would you respond? This is the most important election in a generation. Would you still respect Barack and Michelle Obama?
PUMABOFB! PARTY UNITY MY ASS BUT ONLY FOR BLACKS!
Crisco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-15-08 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. 3. "Hillary is not a murderer, as far as I know"
I think that pretty much says it all, a stunning example of why so many of the Clinton primary voters think a certain portion of DUers have lost their ****ing minds and any shred of intellectual honesty they may have ever had, if they had any to begin with.
redstate_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-15-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. What it says is this:
Hillary knows Barack Obama is not a Muslim.
Everyone knows Hillary is not a murderer.
These are vicious rumors spread about the both of them.
Now, if Obama, knowing that the accusation is NOT TRUE, said, she is not, AS FAR AS I KNOW, then that would be a problem for me.
redstate_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-15-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. You are intentionally being obtuse.
Both are vicious rumors. Instead of saying what she should have said, that no he is not, she said AS FAR AS I KNOW.
Your reaction seems to indicate that one rumor is more vicious than the other. Mischaracterizing someone as having a different religion than what he has, stating he is a) a liar and b) a possible Jihadist (clearly that is the only reason this particular Muslim rumor is being spread, it isn't because people are worried he isn't a Christian) is no different than claiming someone is a) lying about not being a murderer b) is, in fact, a murderer.
cryingshame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-15-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. Obama would have NEVER continued on after the Math made his loss certain.
Ew. Wanna bet?sparosnare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-15-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think we should quit beating a dead horse.
By continuing to pose "what if's" and lookiing backward instead of forward, we are giving the nutty Hillary supporters who won't vote for Obama way too much attention.
I am confident Obama's campaign is in control and we will have closure at the convention. After it's all over, the Democratic Party will be Obama's.
You know, the final comment up there is the second time I've seen it today on Skins's island, and it sends chills up the bones. Since when does the Democrat party belong to any one person?
This reeks so much of.....Hitlerism.
franksolich suspects the Democrat party belongs to.....the Democrats.
redstate_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-15-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I am simply not understanding the purpose of having to tip toe around these Deadenders. No one took anything away from them. Obama won fair and square. I am simply posing a hypothetical to them to get them to see how crazy all of this is.
sparosnare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-15-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. They won't see how crazy all of this is - so there's no point. By being gracious and essentially taking away their bluster, they lose.
Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-15-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. Perfect
The division will disapear when she steps off the stage.
Oh yeah.David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-15-08 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. But the real news is that Barack won the nomination. He is our candidate and she is not.
And he is being magnanimous and gracious and I think we should follow his lead.
I got $100 to my fellow alum Skins if the Obamaite primitives follow Barry "Goldwater" Obama's lead and be magnanimous and gracious. But that's so unlikely I already gave it to a Lutheran-run day-care center for mentally-retarded Native American children in North Dakota.
annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-15-08 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
11. If the sky fell, we'd all have larks. . . .
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride....
If me Aunt had balls, she'd be me Uncle. . .
This exercise gains us nothing. Anyone raising hell, supposedly in Hillary's name, at this point must be considered to be a disruptor.
LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-15-08 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
12. It still wouldn't make the caucus system fair
I didn't like it before this election cycle and I like it even less now. It's undemocratic and favors certain demographics (depending on when they are held).
Uh-huh. And the morning after the election, we'll see how reflective caucuses (as compared with primaries) are, of general public sentiment.
It's going to be a great lot of fun.
