Author Topic: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?  (Read 9329 times)

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Offline USA4ME

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Quote from:
pnwest

Thought experiment: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?

I can't imagine how and where it would be fought. I can't see phalanxes of red coats and blue coats squaring off in the middle of like Seattle, or Atlanta and shooting at each other. How would it even work? I'm a liberal in a fairly conservative outpost in Washington State, and what...roving bands of trump humpers are going to come to my door and slaughter my family?

Would the Dems and Repubs create armies?

I don't want a civil war, I'd be very happy if we all just agreed to split - and let the repubs HAVE the original name - they've ruined it anyway, let us split, we'll call ourselves something new and be done with the whole lot of 'em.

How do YOU picture 21st century civil war in the United States?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029281352

I'll let some of you go over and bring back some of the answers. But a bunch of you here are gonna get a real laugh out of what the primitives say.

My answer: Don't worry about it, liberals. You won't be alive long enough for it to matter.

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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2017, 04:41:22 PM »
It would look a lot like they Yugoslavian Civil War, pre-IFOR/SFOR.  Except one side starts out with a lot of guns and veterans, and the other side starts out with a lot of people wholly dependent on government handouts to survive...that part is a little like the Freikorps vs. Commie Revolutionaries in 1919-1920 Germany, but it's not inconsistent with the main theme. 

Also it's not going to happen, the Conservatives are too committed to Constitutional government to start it, and the Left is too ineffectual and dependent to start it.
Plenty of the more educated and better-paid ones love to poop out of the pie-holes on the internet, but that's far from the number they'd need to fight and even the rest of the Left knows those people are just internet commandoes.  The vast majority of the people they'd need to actually do the killing and dying don't have a thing to gain by starting it, since their Step Number One would be to break the machine that gives them their goodies.
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Offline thundley4

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2017, 04:43:07 PM »
Quote
And where do ICE and Border Patrol cadres stand on murdering their fellow American citizens? I do not know right now.

When 1/2 of "Americans", your half, thinks it's okay for illegals and drug dealers to kill them, I don't think those federal agents will have much compunction about killing those that side with their enemies,

Offline USA4ME

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2017, 05:18:40 PM »
Quote from:
Lee-Lee

46. Interesting thought experiment.

One thing I have been more and more worried about is how Balkanized our nation is becoming. Our nation was not always as broken down by politics as to where people live nearly as much as it is now.

The rural/urban divide would be the line along which the battle lines are drawn most likely. That divide already exists now in mentality with especially much of the rural population feeding into the "us vs them" rhetoric.

The rural side is armed and knows how to use the arms. I'm not talkijbg about militia types, I'm talking about the farmer who is used to shooting running coyotes at night and the deer hunter whose scooted bolt action rifle can hit a deer at 500 yards.

The urban side largely is not.

The suburban areas would be caught in the middle and would become the bulk of the fighting area.

Urban areas are hugely, hugely dependent upon food coming in. If the trucks stop for just one week the store shelves will be bare- grocery stores don't have big back rooms full of stock, they take what comes in right off the truck and on to the shelves. The trucks stop and the shelves empty in a matter of hours.

Most people in the urban areas don't have more than a few days food on the shelves.

If the rural people stop the flow of food things get desperate fast. Riots follow. People try and leave the urban areas seeking food or safety and some leave seeking to fight or take what they want. The suburbs become a battleground of urban people trying to escape or seize food to survive, the suburban dwellers torn between protecting themselves and family and helping whatever side they are on and the rural types seeking to keep the urban people contained and stuck in the cities.

That's pretty close, except the people in the burbs would likely protect themselves from the intruding urbanites, and the rural areas would have their back.

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Offline Ralph Wiggum

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2017, 05:27:14 PM »
DUmp monkeys and their so called thought experiments are as usual, utterly worthless.
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Offline USA4ME

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2017, 05:33:09 PM »
DUmp monkeys and their so called thought experiments are as usual, utterly worthless.

What I find interesting is that none of them say they would win. None of them.

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Offline I_B_Perky

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2017, 05:38:49 PM »
This amused me:

Quote
The Velveteen Ocelot (52,341 posts)
6. Well, first of all, the Civil War uniforms were blue (US) and gray (CSA),

not blue and red (that was the Revolutionary War).
More importantly, the Civil War involved alliances of entire states into two separate (temporary) countries in contiguous geographic areas. We are no longer divided in that way. The "blue" states are generally in a group on the west coast, a few in the upper Midwest, and some more on the northeast coast, and within those states (and within many of the "red" states as well) there's also a significant urban-rural divide.

So, instead of an entire seceded country vs. the original country fighting along battle lines, mostly on or near borders as in the 19th Century Civil War, you'd have county-to-county fighting within the states. Where would the armies come from? There's no such thing as a county army. Would the fighting be conducted by small citizen militias? In my area it would be liberal, heavily populated Hennepin and Ramsey Counties (MN) vs. nearby right-wing Anoka and Stearns Counties. The same or similar situations would probably exist in many other parts of the country; you'd have liberal Madison (Dane County), WI vs. the wingers in Paul Ryan's district; the Seattle area vs. central and eastern WA, and so forth. It would be a free-for-all that would involve everybody in a very bad way.

 :lmao:
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Offline I_B_Perky

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2017, 05:41:30 PM »
That's pretty close, except the people in the burbs would likely protect themselves from the intruding urbanites, and the rural areas would have their back.

.

Dummie left out electricity generation.  Those power plants are typically not located in urban areas.  History shows us what happens when a large city such as NYC loses all electrical power. 
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Offline VelvetElvis

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2017, 05:52:43 PM »
Dummie left out electricity generation.  Those power plants are typically not located in urban areas.  History shows us what happens when a large city such as NYC loses all electrical power.
Not too many wood burning stoves or fireplaces in the big cities either.
Me and mine will be just fine with the woodburner and the private wind generator.
Not to mention lots of evil guns and ammo.
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2017, 06:01:10 PM »
Dummie left out electricity generation.  Those power plants are typically not located in urban areas.  History shows us what happens when a large city such as NYC loses all electrical power.

NYC would devolve into Sarejevo in three days.  Wanna know why?

Clean water.  NYC gets its' water from the Catskills, and the various reservoirs in the system and down the east side of the Hudson River in Columbia, Dutchess, and Putnam Counties.  There are some NYC DEP reservoirs in Westchester County, but they're not large enough to handle the needs of such a large city/metro area.  There is an emergency intake for the water system on the Hudson River (near Beacon), but you do not want to drink that stuff.  You'd get all sorts of waterborne diseases showing up in NYC in . . . three days or so.

ETA:  Most large cities get their water from rural (read:  conservative) areas, so they would be in the same boat.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 06:05:17 PM by BlueStateSaint »
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Offline thundley4

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2017, 06:30:52 PM »
Most big liberal shitholes like Chicago have very few places to buy or otherwise get guns and ammo. However, lots of smaller towns that lean red have them. Also, they tend to be more plentiful in red states.  :rofl:

Offline I_B_Perky

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2017, 06:53:45 PM »
NYC would devolve into Sarejevo in three days.  Wanna know why?

Clean water.  NYC gets its' water from the Catskills, and the various reservoirs in the system and down the east side of the Hudson River in Columbia, Dutchess, and Putnam Counties.  There are some NYC DEP reservoirs in Westchester County, but they're not large enough to handle the needs of such a large city/metro area.  There is an emergency intake for the water system on the Hudson River (near Beacon), but you do not want to drink that stuff.  You'd get all sorts of waterborne diseases showing up in NYC in . . . three days or so.

ETA:  Most large cities get their water from rural (read:  conservative) areas, so they would be in the same boat.

I never thought about the water.  That would lead to some serious sanitation issues as well.  Can you imagine 8+ million people taking a dump in the street?   Envirocommies would have a conniption fit when the run off went straight into the river! :rotf: :rotf:

H5 for bringing up a very good point!!
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2017, 07:44:32 PM »
NYC would devolve into Sarejevo in three days.  Wanna know why?

Clean water.  NYC gets its' water from the Catskills, and the various reservoirs in the system and down the east side of the Hudson River in Columbia, Dutchess, and Putnam Counties.  There are some NYC DEP reservoirs in Westchester County, but they're not large enough to handle the needs of such a large city/metro area.  There is an emergency intake for the water system on the Hudson River (near Beacon), but you do not want to drink that stuff.  You'd get all sorts of waterborne diseases showing up in NYC in . . . three days or so.

ETA:  Most large cities get their water from rural (read:  conservative) areas, so they would be in the same boat.

Shut down the interstates and the city has no food.

That would lead to panicked riots.
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Offline freedumb2003b

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2017, 08:30:13 PM »
Quote
I can't imagine how and where it would be fought. I can't see phalanxes of red coats and blue coats squaring off in the middle of like Seattle

Well, seeing as how it was GRAY and BLUE in the Civil War, your "thought experiment" is off to a bad start.  Thought experiments require a brain so you not only are not qualified to post it but you posted to a place that is the worst possible for such things.

Maybe a picture will help -- light blue is pro-America.  Colored areas are you leftists.  What do YOU think?

« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 08:36:16 PM by freedumb2003b »
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Offline zeitgeist

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2017, 08:00:38 AM »
Well, seeing as how it was GRAY and BLUE in the Civil War, your "thought experiment" is off to a bad start.  Thought experiments require a brain so you not only are not qualified to post it but you posted to a place that is the worst possible for such things.

Maybe a picture will help -- light blue is pro-America.  Colored areas are you leftists.  What do YOU think?



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Offline Old n Grumpy

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2017, 09:22:29 AM »
We won't need to fire a shot. We will post on the dump you need to sign up for antifa training, Free food, lodging, entertainment, medical care and pot will be supplied along with spending money. We will send busses to take you to the training camps where you will be sorted out.
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Antifa / violent ones will be sent to somalia.
Rich ones will be sent to Ethopia where you can share your wealth
Fat ones will be sent to Uganda to meet Edi Amines relatives..
The mellow ones will pick tomatoes and do menial tasks for all us working class folks that are rebuilding our country.
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Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2017, 11:15:47 AM »
NYC would devolve into Sarejevo in three days.  Wanna know why?

Clean water.  NYC gets its' water from the Catskills, and the various reservoirs in the system and down the east side of the Hudson River in Columbia, Dutchess, and Putnam Counties.  There are some NYC DEP reservoirs in Westchester County, but they're not large enough to handle the needs of such a large city/metro area.  There is an emergency intake for the water system on the Hudson River (near Beacon), but you do not want to drink that stuff.  You'd get all sorts of waterborne diseases showing up in NYC in . . . three days or so.

ETA:  Most large cities get their water from rural (read:  conservative) areas, so they would be in the same boat.

Very true. People cannot live without water.

San Francisco and Los Angeles get their water from the Sierra Nevada region of California.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 11:18:06 AM by Ptarmigan »
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2017, 11:58:43 AM »
Very true. People cannot live without water.

San Francisco and Los Angeles get their water from the Sierra Nevada region of California.

Well, they shouldn't have the word "drought" anywhere near their minds this year, then.
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Offline SVPete

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2017, 12:01:35 PM »
Very true. People cannot live without water.

San Francisco and Los Angeles get their water from the Sierra Nevada region of California.

While SF does get some water from Hetch Hetchy in the Sierras, it also gets much of its water from Crystal Springs Reservoir and a couple of other lakes on the Peninsula. Oakland, Berserkeley, and other East Bay cities get their water from lakes in the East Bay, and Silicon Valley also gets its water from reservoirs in the South Bay. But the Land of LA gets its water from the Sierras, the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta, and the Colorado River, i.e. from and/or through "red" areas.
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Offline Skul

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2017, 04:43:32 PM »
Quote
pnwest

big snip

 ,....let us split, we'll call ourselves something new  and be done with the whole lot of 'em.

snip



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Offline Adam Wood

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2017, 05:12:16 AM »
I'm not saying that this is how it would happen, but the DUmmies have yet to consider the fact that they are cloistered in a relatively few cities.  One need only look to medieval times to find out what happens to people cloistered in cities: it's alarmingly easy to cut them off from all outside contact and simply lay siege to them.

If conservatives actually organized in something vaguely resembling a militia, probably less than 10,000 could literally cut off Chicago entirely.  Just close down Cook County at the borders, no roads in or out, and a few folks with some boats blockading Lake Michigan.  One could literally surround the land area around Chicago and surrounding counties, with men 10' apart, with about 58,000 troops.  The city would fall within days, but even if it took a month, it would be easy duty.  There are only so many stolen guns that can be bought out of the trunk of a Buick on the south side, after all, so it's not like they would be shooting back.


Again, I don't think that would ever happen, but just a very basic understanding of history should tell them that they are in a tenuous position indeed.

Offline Drafe Hoblin

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2017, 06:07:19 AM »
It will have a nickname, probably using the word 'war' as a soft modifier.  Like The 100-Hours War or War Of The Posies, etc.

Because we'd kick the antifa/pro-Soros crowd's asses 7-ways-from-Sunday in every format imaginable.  And they started it.   

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2017, 07:19:09 AM »
It will have a nickname, probably using the word 'war' as a soft modifier.  Like The 100-Hours War or War Of The Posies, etc.

Because we'd kick the antifa/pro-Soros crowd's asses 7-ways-from-Sunday in every format imaginable.  And they started it.   

War of the ***** Hats!

I like that one!  :cheersmate:
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Offline Mr Mannn

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2017, 07:27:07 AM »
Civil war in the 21st century will consist of digging mass graves in the empty plains states for all the leftists, Hippies and inner-city thugs who showed up to fight. We will then pave them over and build and amusement parks.

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: What would Civil War in the US even look like in the 21st century?
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2017, 07:47:45 AM »
It wouldn't be quick or pretty.  Imagine Russian Civil War post-1917, with the cities confiscating food from the surrounding countryside.  Our Blue cities would use their police forces and SWAT teams and fragmentary Guard units as a cadre to form and equip militias of their own to break out and seize their needs, and gain control of critical infrastructure like reservoirs and ammo factories, issuing worthless vouchers for what they take, no doubt.  The cities have some advantages in the conflict, such as interior lines and the offensive and initiative (Since the Red forces would have no interest in breaking into the cities and taking them, that means the Blues could choose the time and place to focus their forces).  The Red forces have some strategic disadvantages like how to redistribute food without using distribution nodes that would fall into Blue territory, after all a tomato farmer may have truckloads of tomatoes, but what does he do for bread, meat, and fuel?  How would Red forces deal with refugees fleeing the cities?  Without the prewar integrated economic might of the country, their ability to feed and house millions of refugees would be nonexistent, and attempting to handle them would simply cripple the Red forces logistically, leaving them vulnerable to defeat piecemeal.  A large percentage of refugees would be Blue loyalists, with many agents and organizers mixed in, with Loyalists just fleeing from necessity, with no desire to change their views.  This would quickly lead to large-scale atrocities on both sides, of course whatever remained of the media would focus on atrocities against the Blue population because that's where the media is and that is their power base.   Alternatively it could be a low-grade lethal truce with some necessary trade back and forth in commodities, mixed with thousands dead from snipers and occasional mass atrocities, more like Yugoslavia than the Russian Civil War.

Either way, it's so bad it won't happen.  Going down that path for either side means buying into a sudden and protracted self-inflicted hardship without a clear path to any gain, which is not something Americans have shown a lot of stomach for in recent times, so the whole thing will remain just internet blather. 
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