Author Topic: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke  (Read 7613 times)

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Offline franksolich

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nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« on: June 28, 2017, 08:55:53 PM »
https://jackpineradicals.com/groups/jpr-the-voice-of-poverty-and-disability/forum/topic/my-journey-into-bankruptcy/

Oh my.

The "backstory" on this is that, a few years ago, when crazy Andrea was running amok on her own web-site, oldelmtree.com, Ohio Barbarian kindly kept franksolich aware of what was going on behind the scenes.

His illumination was delightful, and so now franksolich wishes to return that long-ago favor.

It's a long read, but worth it.

Quote
Ohio Barbarian  (2805 posts)    June 28, 2017 at 10:19 am

My Journey into Bankruptcy

I can’t say I’m really in poverty, I’m right at the national median income of $41,000 per year. My wife isn’t working–she can’t stand for long due to a couple of years working as a cashier in a grocery store with no floor mats and has lots of microfractures in the bones of her feet–she’s been unemployed a few years and is in her fifties, which many of you know is the kiss of death in the job search arena.

I can say I’m just a paycheck away from losing everything and being in poverty, though. Anyway, three years ago we were in a rental home with two of her grown kids, and had been living cash and carry for years. We had two aging cars that were literally leaving bits and pieces of themselves on northeast Ohio roads. We discovered through the handy dandy Cuyahoga County Auditor’s site that our absentee landlord hadn’t paid any taxes on the property we were living in for five years, and the county was threatening foreclosure. Further searching discovered that he wasn’t paying property taxes on any of his rental homes and his weekly rental hotel had been shut down due to health, safety, and criminal issues.

Not to mention that he hadn’t paid any of his water bills, including ours. He was so bad he actually made the neighborhood paper. Soooo…it was Ruh-Roh Astro time. Danger Will Robinson! Shields up Captain! We had to do something.

Since I had never exercised my VA home loan benefit, I decided to finance a house while the interest rates and real estate prices were down compared to where they were before 2008. But I had NO credit score. Contrary to what right wing talk radio and certain Fox News hosts will tell you, you can’t even get a VA loan without at least a 630 credit score. A car loan seemed the right way to go.

Then one car died. The other’s transmission was acting up bad, and it had other issues. So we limped the old Pontiac in, and traded it in for a 3 year old car. I hope you understand that I felt kinda desperate then, and I wishfully believed some of the dealer’s lies and agreed to a $382 a month payment for six years. That’s six, as in 6. One of the lies was that I could trade it in in a year for a new car and pay way less per month.

Well, it worked. I got the house, and a beautiful one it is too if I do say so myself. Thanks to the recent European immigrant descendant racism that is prevalent in these parts, for a $110,000 loan we got a two story 1951 colonial with brand new appliances in a beautiful working class neighborhood in Euclid. I know I am more fortunate than about half of my fellow Americans in this regard, maybe more than half. Still, isn’t this what we were promised all of our lives? And I was 56, and had never owned real property. I found a place I wanted to live in until the mortician comes and with a little help from Freya I got it. Initially, for less a month in mortgage, property tax and insurance payments than what I had paid in rent.

Then property taxes went up. Then groceries went up. Then utilities went WAY  the **** up. As for my county government job, I got a measly 2% raise, which actually put me at the median income figure I stated above. The County had to pay for sports palace and RNC improvements, you see. We simply could not afford to pay the mortgage, the property taxes, the home and car insurance, the gas, the electric, the water, our food and clothing, even when we virtually eliminated already very limited entertainment expenses. To prove my point, Cable TV had been ditched many years earlier. Overseas or interstate vacations? Forgeddaboutit! And I won’t even go into the hell my incompetent, rapacious mortgage bank has put us through with escrow. That’s becoming a whole book.

I took the car to trade it in as I’d been promised. Nyet! Non! NO WAY!  My loan was $6000 underwater by that time. I searched high and low. Nope, trade-in impossible. Electric, water and gas shut off notices. Something had to give.

My wife found a consumer law attorney, who looked at my car loan contract and said the dealership had broken Ohio law. It seems that they rolled finance charges into the principle, and that shit is still illegal here. However, there is no government agency you can call to do anything about it. All you can do is hire an attorney and sue their ass. So the consumer law attorney, who I’m happy to say had Bernie stickers on his car and Bernie freakin’ posters in his office in his office took my case on contingency.

Progressives, they’re just not motivated as much by that ol’ profit motive, are they? Anyway, the dealer refused to settle, the Bernie attorney won a procedural ruling that mediation doesn’t apply and that the contract might in fact be illegal, but well-heeled defendant corporations can drag cases like this out for years. I’ll probable win, eventually, but I doubt it will be an exactly lifestyle changing event when I do.

We needed to keep the car. I didn’t have any cash on hand to buy even a probably decent clunker. And then I found out about this Chapter 13 Bankruptcy cram down thingie. So, instead of paying $382 a month, I get to pay $194 a month for five years or until the lawsuit comes through.  :dance:  Yee-hah! :sarcasm: But at least we can afford to pay for groceries and utilities now and maybe eat out twice a month.

It was a household business decision, in a way, since I don’t give a shit about credit ratings, which should be illegal in the first *******ed place! I got the house. Credit mission accomplished. Now I’m fighting to keep the house. And, so far at least, winning. Again, I know I’m fortunate. It could easily have been far worse.

My point is that someone with the type of job I have, someone at the median income in America, someone who certainly does not live an extravagant lifestyle and with no credit card debt, should never be one paycheck or one unforeseen repair expense away from the start of foreclosure proceedings. When the Bankruptcy Court Magistrate asked me why I was filing Chapter 13, she got most of this story entered into the official record, even though it was clear she really didn’t want to hear it.

Maybe it helped that other bankruptcy filers were in the courtroom, nodding along to what I said with an occasional “Right on, brother!” or “You tell ’em” or “He’s got that right!” or “I understand that!” being uttered from their ranks. They were mostly middle-aged, and evenly divided between black and white, so if this isn’t example of a class issue I don’t know what is.

My bourgeois, or maybe just American, upbringing tells me to say I’m sorry about spilling all of this personal shit, that I should be ashamed of what I just had to do. But I am no longer ashamed. We need to tell our stories. We need to discover just how much the vast majority of We The People have in common, and just how much we have all been exploited by a rapacious financial, economic, and political system. It is a great way we can get together to force real, positive change for ourselves and our descendants.

I know some of you have it far worse than I. I know at least a few of you are somewhat better off. I also know most of us are just a major thing or two bad happening away from financial catastrophe, and that ain’t right. Which is why I’m a progressive.

Thanks for your time and have a nice day.
 
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Offline fatboy

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2017, 10:04:27 PM »
Why is it that the smartest people on the planet make the worse deals involving car loans and places to live?
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Offline Carl

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2017, 04:47:53 AM »
Quote
The other’s transmission was acting up bad, and it had other issues. So we limped the old Pontiac in, and traded it in for a 3 year old car. I hope you understand that I felt kinda desperate then, and I wishfully believed some of the dealer’s lies and agreed to a $382 a month payment for six years. That’s six, as in 6.

 :thatsright:

That means they "bought" a 3 year old car for 25,000 dollars.
What kind of a retard would do that?

Offline Skul

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2017, 07:05:16 AM »
Why is it that the smartest people on the planet make the worse deals involving car loans and places to live?

Well, remember, they're referred to as DUmmies for a reason. 
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John Adams warned in a letter, “Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”

Offline Old n Grumpy

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2017, 07:27:56 AM »
If he had a stay at home wife, why did they need 2 cars? A 50 yr old should be able to find some sort of job sitting down, maybe as a door stop. any extra $$ would be a help.  People make bad financial choices and then wonder why they are broke.
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Offline Skul

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2017, 07:42:33 AM »

Oh my.

The "backstory" on this is that, a few years ago, when crazy Andrea was running amok on her own web-site, oldelmtree.com, Ohio Barbarian kindly kept franksolich aware of what was going on behind the scenes.

His illumination was delightful, and so now franksolich wishes to return that long-ago favor.

It's a long read, but worth it.

OK, what the bloody he2L is a Mok and why would she run it?
A photo would be nice.
Then-Chief Justice John Marshall observed, “Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos.”

John Adams warned in a letter, “Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”

Offline Texacon

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2017, 01:07:01 PM »
If he had a stay at home wife, why did they need 2 cars? A 50 yr old should be able to find some sort of job sitting down, maybe as a door stop. any extra $$ would be a help.  People make bad financial choices and then wonder why they are broke.


And bitch about their credit score and how they should be illegal.  Hello, dumb ass, you're not paying your bills now ... seems to me like the credit score was a pretty good indication that you are a poor risk to any lender.

And making $41k/year buying a $110k house?!  Who in the hell got you that loan?  Rule of thumb is 2.5 x your annual income on home sales price and you are maxed out.  Most people don't even want to be close to that.  You should have been looking in the $60k range.  You wouldn't be in this shape if you had any wits about you at all. 

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Offline I_B_Perky

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2017, 04:41:58 PM »
Guy could always get himself a second job.  Mow yards in the summer. Some decent money in that and kids don't seem to want to do it anymore.  Assuming he already has a mower and a weed eater all his overhead would be is some gas and oil. Even 5 or 6 yards would yield around $100 a week. More if they are large yards.

People just amaze me sometimes.   :mental:
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Offline Texacon

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2017, 04:57:10 PM »
Oh Lord.  I clicked on the link and the OP has a 'Donor' under his name.  Wow. 

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Offline freedumb2003b

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2017, 05:00:40 PM »
Why is it that the smartest people on the planet make the worse deals involving car loans and places to live?

And vocation?  Living a life with that level of quiet desperation comes from a sum of many many many many bad decisions from adolescence through now.  Not hard luck, just bad decisions.

I will save sympathy for those who fall into unexpected holes, not those who dig them, jump in, and then keep digging.

On edit:  I just read the OP and saw this yahoo is a DONOR to jpr!!!  He hasn't got 2 pennies to rub together, is cryin' the blues about how broke he is?????  That is like poc's who cry about no food while sporting $250 cornrow haircuts and $400 sneakers!!!

My lack of sympathy just became active anger and disgust.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 05:05:56 PM by freedumb2003b »
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2017, 05:01:31 PM »
Feel a bit bad for him, being as how he helped Frank out a bit.  Still, seems to be some less-than-optimal decision-making that entered into the whole thing.
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Offline Skul

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2017, 06:10:28 PM »
Quote
    9thMonkey (3189 posts) (Reply to original post)    June 28, 2017 at 11:01 am
Profile photo of 99thMonkey Donor
2. Thanks for your story. You are right not to feel ashamed about it.

The very act of telling it, frees you.  Thanks for sharing.

Every thing for them is free.   :rotf:
Then-Chief Justice John Marshall observed, “Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos.”

John Adams warned in a letter, “Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”

Offline USA4ME

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2017, 10:32:56 PM »
Too many lies in his story to take the time to point them all out.

No such thing as "no credit score". Even if you have no credit, you still get scored. Not good, but you get scored.

I never did VA loans since banks were better equipped to handle them, but I imagine if you don't exercise the use of your VA loan after a certain amount of time, additional documentation is required. Someone newly discharged may not have established credit and credit score would not be a factor. Someone who has been out for a while? That's different. This is just a guess and I could be mistaken. But something's not right about what he said. And conservative radio and FoxNews isn't making claims about a VA loan that isn't accurate, so he's lying about that.

Consumer lawyer that's a bern-out? That's a little too convenient.

A bankruptcy court where a magistrate lets people in the gallery shout out? Yeah. Right.  :whatever:

Like I said, too many lies to cover properly.

.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 10:36:51 PM by USA4ME »
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Offline thundley4

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2017, 09:47:42 AM »

No such thing as "no credit score". Even if you have no credit, you still get scored. Not good, but you get scored.


Up until I got married a long time ago, I had always paid cash for things including used cars. No credit cards, no loans taken out, not even a checking account up to that point.

We went to open a joint checking account, and I didn't exist in the system as far as credit scores went.


Offline SVPete

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2017, 10:39:39 AM »
Up until I got married a long time ago, I had always paid cash for things including used cars. No credit cards, no loans taken out, not even a checking account up to that point.

We went to open a joint checking account, and I didn't exist in the system as far as credit scores went.

I suspect, "NO credit score," was a euphemistic way of saying, "A credit score so awful I would only wish it on my worst enemy."
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Offline thundley4

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2017, 10:41:47 AM »
I suspect, "NO credit score," was a euphemistic way of saying, "A credit score so awful I would only wish it on my worst enemy."

As I said, no score is possible, but highly unlikely at the DUmmies age.

Offline USA4ME

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2017, 10:58:59 AM »
Up until I got married a long time ago, I had always paid cash for things including used cars. No credit cards, no loans taken out, not even a checking account up to that point.

We went to open a joint checking account, and I didn't exist in the system as far as credit scores went.

I just wrote out a nice, long explanation only to have my iPad freeze up. Oh well.

I'll just say that in 30+ years of being in the finance industry and my company probably acquiring credit on 50,000+ potential and actual customers, I never had a customer who didn't score, so your case is highly, highly unusual. And credit scoring only started being prominently used around the mid to late 90's. FICO was available, but it wasn't really used. Lenders went off mortgage payment history primarily with a second level view of consumer payment history (installment being more important than revolving credit) when determining credit worthiness. When Lenders started going strictly by credit scoring, I know many of us complained because it reduced people to a number rather than viewing their whole credit history, which we felt was unfair. I still do to some degree, but it's hard to fight city hall.

I think the lowest score you can have is 300 and top is 850. But regardless, just by trying to inquire of someone's credit, a score was assigned.

.
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Offline USA4ME

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2017, 11:06:57 AM »
I suspect, "NO credit score," was a euphemistic way of saying, "A credit score so awful I would only wish it on my worst enemy."

I suspect it was a convenient way of leading into highlighting "what right wing talk radio and certain Fox News hosts will tell you", which was his main point; calling conservatives liars and "the system" as being evil.

You know, it's never their fault. If liberals/progressives only ran things the world would be wonderful.

 :whatever:

.
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Offline SVPete

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2017, 12:07:02 PM »
I suspect it was a convenient way of leading into highlighting "what right wing talk radio and certain Fox News hosts will tell you", which was his main point; calling conservatives liars and "the system" as being evil.

You know, it's never their fault. If liberals/progressives only ran things the world would be wonderful.

 :whatever:

I don't watch Fox. and I must listen to the wrong "right wing radio hosts", as I've never hear the hosts claim people can get mortgages with a horrible credit score. I think I've heard ads for signature loans, credit scores not checked, up to $10K (usually/always not by the host), but that's a far cry from a mortgage. So he may have woven his story so as to work in this smear.
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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2017, 09:53:20 PM »
I have wondered what had happened to OET. I was thinking it would grow with the schism.
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Offline franksolich

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2017, 10:16:17 PM »
I have wondered what had happened to OET. I was thinking it would grow with the schism.

Nope.

It seems crazy Andrea harbored the same dreams, the same fantasies, as the worthless freeloading bum "stewert" or of Fat Che, the long-banished ben burch primitive--she expected she could imitate Skins and make some money running a message-board.

In fact, she thought it'd provide her a rather affluent income.

She forgot only Skins could do what Skins did; nobody else has his genius.

Well, maybe Jim Robinson of freerepublic.

Towards the end, crazy Andrea claimed her bank account had been hacked, and she was out of money.

As explained to me by, ahem, a reliable, ahem, source, and supported with links, her bank account had been depleted, yes--by the state of Ohio, garnisheed for unpaid taxes.
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Offline Adam Wood

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2017, 09:38:52 PM »
I just wrote out a nice, long explanation only to have my iPad freeze up. Oh well.

I'll just say that in 30+ years of being in the finance industry and my company probably acquiring credit on 50,000+ potential and actual customers, I never had a customer who didn't score, so your case is highly, highly unusual. And credit scoring only started being prominently used around the mid to late 90's. FICO was available, but it wasn't really used. Lenders went off mortgage payment history primarily with a second level view of consumer payment history (installment being more important than revolving credit) when determining credit worthiness. When Lenders started going strictly by credit scoring, I know many of us complained because it reduced people to a number rather than viewing their whole credit history, which we felt was unfair. I still do to some degree, but it's hard to fight city hall.

I think the lowest score you can have is 300 and top is 850. But regardless, just by trying to inquire of someone's credit, a score was assigned.

.
It's almost impossible to not have a credit score these days.  Even if you don't have a mortgage, pay cash for cars, that sort of thing, almost everyone at some point has to pay for electric or water or a telephone, which, even if paid in cash, still result in a credit score.  Essentially, you almost have to live under a bridge to not have any sort of paper trail at all.

Almost.

I will note that a friend of mine was once considered "not scoreable," which is different from not actually having a score, though it's a subtle difference.  Short version: he existed on paper, but when he got married, he just moved into the house his wife already had and he was never included on any paperwork: mortgage was in her name, electric was in her name, water was in her name, etc., etc.  He had paid cash for a car and, at least on paper, carried zero debt of any sort, not even an electric bill, for about four years.  He was paid in cash by his boss, but still got tax statements and paid taxes religiously.  The boss simply believed in cash (and handwriting: all of his W2s and pay stubs and whatnot from work were meticulously hand-written with actual carbon paper by the boss' wife).  After a few years of marriage and looking to have a couple of kids, they went to get an approval letter and even though her credit was stellar, he effectively didn't exist on paper.  They acknowledged that he previously had reasonably good credit, but because he actually had no activity for the previous four or five years, Experion (I think) said that they couldn't deliver a score for him to the lender. 

This was ultimately rectified by him getting one of those pre-paid "credit" cards and using it for a few months, paying it off immediately, which essentially "resurrected" his previous credit score.


Now, I doubt very seriously that this is what happened with the DUmmie in question, unless he was actively trying to duck either debt collectors or legal proceedings, and even then it's dubious.  After all, DUmmies lie, all the time.

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2017, 10:08:20 PM »
Nope.

It seems crazy Andrea harbored the same dreams, the same fantasies, as the worthless freeloading bum "stewert" or of Fat Che, the long-banished ben burch primitive--she expected she could imitate Skins and make some money running a message-board.

In fact, she thought it'd provide her a rather affluent income.

She forgot only Skins could do what Skins did; nobody else has his genius.

Well, maybe Jim Robinson of freerepublic.

Towards the end, crazy Andrea claimed her bank account had been hacked, and she was out of money.

As explained to me by, ahem, a reliable, ahem, source, and supported with links, her bank account had been depleted, yes--by the state of Ohio, garnisheed for unpaid taxes.

Go figure.
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Offline USA4ME

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Re: nemesis of crazy Andrea at oldelmtree goes broke
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2017, 10:18:23 PM »
It's almost impossible to not have a credit score these days.  Even if you don't have a mortgage, pay cash for cars, that sort of thing, almost everyone at some point has to pay for electric or water or a telephone, which, even if paid in cash, still result in a credit score.  Essentially, you almost have to live under a bridge to not have any sort of paper trail at all.

Almost.

I will note that a friend of mine was once considered "not scoreable," which is different from not actually having a score, though it's a subtle difference.  Short version: he existed on paper, but when he got married, he just moved into the house his wife already had and he was never included on any paperwork: mortgage was in her name, electric was in her name, water was in her name, etc., etc.  He had paid cash for a car and, at least on paper, carried zero debt of any sort, not even an electric bill, for about four years.  He was paid in cash by his boss, but still got tax statements and paid taxes religiously.  The boss simply believed in cash (and handwriting: all of his W2s and pay stubs and whatnot from work were meticulously hand-written with actual carbon paper by the boss' wife).  After a few years of marriage and looking to have a couple of kids, they went to get an approval letter and even though her credit was stellar, he effectively didn't exist on paper.  They acknowledged that he previously had reasonably good credit, but because he actually had no activity for the previous four or five years, Experion (I think) said that they couldn't deliver a score for him to the lender. 

This was ultimately rectified by him getting one of those pre-paid "credit" cards and using it for a few months, paying it off immediately, which essentially "resurrected" his previous credit score.


Now, I doubt very seriously that this is what happened with the DUmmie in question, unless he was actively trying to duck either debt collectors or legal proceedings, and even then it's dubious.  After all, DUmmies lie, all the time.

Very familiar. When I was living in the NC mountains, there were quite a few older customers who didn't trust the banks, so they paid everything in cash. And my office would do exactly what you talk about; we would build their credit by obtaining their payment history with their electric, water, propane gas, buy here pay here car lots, rent payments, etc..., anything we could obtain a written verification from a creditor they paid, and then present that to the credit bureau. We called it by what it was: Building Credit.

Lenders won't even mess with that anymore from what I gather (I sold my finance business almost 10 years ago). They could sorta understand older people who didn't trust banks. But today, they expect consumers to have credit.

On a side issue, if anyone reading this isn't watching the Daytona race, turn it on. They're having wrecks about every 2 or 3 laps. Crazy!!

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Because third world peasant labor is a good thing.