hypertensive ol' Bob and Vietnam

[franksolich]

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029129677

Oh my.

I could be wrong, as I read it rather fast, but I don't believe there's a single profanity in it.

TheMastersNemesis (7,556 posts)    Sun May 28, 2017, 08:43 PM

Personally Vietnam WAS THE BEST THING That Ever Happened To Me. Let Me Digress.
 
How could I ever imagined in May 1969 when I was released from the military that I would ever say that "Vietnam was the best thing that ever happened to me". My military service sent me on a life that I could have never imagined in all my 23 years. And I was lucky being assigned to the 1st Air Cavalry Division Company B 1-5 would start a chain of events that sent me on a course life that was bittersweet and sweet at the same time.

For one I had Captain Nawrosky as my company commander. And I had First Sergeant Denison as my commanders. Captain Nawrosky was a sure fire 5 star general who always thought of his men and who would go into combat on point. And Sergeant Dennison came back to the company after being severely wounded with a go home wound in July 1967. Both men would change my life and my attitude forever.

They were the true leaders who always tried to limit casualties. Led by leading from the front and not from behind. These were mine and leaders you would follow to hell and back and then repeat the venture. Captain Nawrosky was wounded in the Khe Sahn relief effort. Sadly he died at Walter Reed several months later while being operated on to restore his voice box.

Sergeant Denison appointed me to be a mail clerk and train for company clerk. My much reviled high school typing class being called a sissy actually now saved my live. After two weeks of combat operations and nearly being killed by friendly artillery fire and one cold air assault I had already seen what the future could bring.

The ware for me was still an ordeal in certain ways, but not like being in the field. I was shelled a couple of times. I even stupidly ran out during an artillery attack to reduce our "dingo" mascot". A round hit near where I punch on that creature and drug him into a bunker. The same day I was to go into a tent with 30 KIA"s to ID our own. It was a grisly site in March 1967. The true cost of war became so brutally clear. As shaken and angry as I was, what I was going through was nothing compared to my fellow soldiers out in the field.

The final chapter of this story is that I ended up in Denver, Colorado. Would have NEVER ended up here were it not for being sent to Vietnam. And as I turn 73 I am so grateful to have ended up here. As much as I loved my home in Illinois, I could not have had the great life I have had here.

Without going into any more detail, I retired going on 29 years from Department of Labor. And that is another story. Despite losing my foot to staff over 3 years ago, I am doing well in so many ways because going to war changed my life and my direction in so many positive ways.

It all could have ended very differently for me. I feel sad that so many other vets have had such a hard time. But I understand. You cannot be under fire and under threat and not be affected by it.

All I know is that in my time in the military I have met the best and worst. The one thing I am most grateful for is my association with Captain Nawrosky (deceased) and Sergeant Denison whose great personal ethics and courage shaped my attitude and my life. I am sorry that I did not find a way to stay in touch with Sergeant Denison. I owe my life and my good fortune to him.

ADDENDUM - Another one of my company commanders, who ran an injured troop on his back for nearly a mile on booby trapped trails to get to a MEDIVAC actually ended up in Denver and worked for a major corporation. I ran into him in 1974. He retired as a general in the National Guard.

Now I have to look at Trump. What a waste. 

[SVPete]

Obviously TMN forgot what a leader looks like long ago This is not the face of leadership:



And this is not the face of leadership:

[98ZJUSMC]

Give it up, retard.

Seriously.

Just give the bullsh*t up.

Those of us that know, don't want to hear it.
 

[Delmar]

Despite losing my foot to staff over 3 years ago, I am doing well in so many ways because going to war changed my life and my direction in so many positive ways.

STAPH!  It's called staph, you simpleton.  Still with the staff.

[I_B_Perky]

TheMastersNemesis (7,556 posts)    Sun May 28, 2017, 08:43 PM

Personally Vietnam WAS THE BEST THING That Ever Happened To Me. Let Me Digress.
 
How could I ever imagined in May 1969 when I was released from the military that I would ever say that "Vietnam was the best thing that ever happened to me". My military service sent me on a life that I could have never imagined in all my 23 years. And I was lucky being assigned to the 1st Air Cavalry Division Company B 1-5 would start a chain of events that sent me on a course life that was bittersweet and sweet at the same time.

For one I had Captain Nawrosky as my company commander. And I had First Sergeant Denison as my commanders. Captain Nawrosky was a sure fire 5 star general who always thought of his men and who would go into combat on point. And Sergeant Dennison came back to the company after being severely wounded with a go home wound in July 1967. Both men would change my life and my attitude forever.

They were the true leaders who always tried to limit casualties. Led by leading from the front and not from behind.

Funny you mentioned "leading from behind" and leaders in general.

obumbles: Led from behind and yet you supported him.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-obama-doctrine-leading-from-behind/2011/04/28/AFBCy18E_story.html

Kerry denigrated people like you and yet you supported him.

Care to come over and explain to me those little factoids?

I do not speak for the military but something tells me that they would not follow obumbles or kerry into combat... or anywhere else for that matter.  I know I damned sure would not.

President Trump?  I do not know.  One thing I do know is the President Trump would try to take care of the soldiers under his command.  He comes across to me as that kind of guy. Now he demands loyalty, no question about that, but what leader doesn't?  President Trump at least understands that loyalty is a two way street.

I've worked for good bosses that are like that. You take care of them, they will take care of you.  That is the way it is supposed to be.

[I_B_Perky]

STAPH!  It's called staph, you simpleton.  Still with the staff.

Heh!  I missed that.  That worthless blob of organic matter wants to lecture people like us and cannot even spell the disease that caused him to lose an appendage.   

H5 for that!   

[Delmar]

Heh!  I missed that.  That worthless blob of organic matter wants to lecture people like us and cannot even spell the disease that caused him to lose an appendage.   

H5 for that!   

He lurks here, right?  It has been pointed out to him multiple times.  You're right, you'd think he'd know since it took his own foot.  At the very least, you'd think one of the other primitives could gently educate him.

[USA4ME]

TheMastersNemesis

After two weeks of combat operations and nearly being killed by friendly artillery fire...

See, even his fellow soldiers wanted him dead.

That's some really odd and disturbing comments from Bob. I can understand someone who has been in combat, or even in a potentially dangerous situation, saying that the experience changed their life. I have yet to meet someone who put it in terms of "I'm glad there was a war going on and that I was in it." Usually when someone has a dangerous experience they believe enhanced their world view, they're glad they made it in order to educate others so they don't have to go through what you did and risk their lives. You certainly don't talk it up like you believe others would benefit if they did the same thing. This from Bob is like "War was great and I'm so lucky to have been a part of it!! You should be in a war, too because, hey, look how it all worked out for me!" That's not normal, that's nuts. 

.

[DUmpsterDiver]

>Without going into any more detail, I retired going on 29 years from Department of Labor. And that is another story. Despite losing my foot to staff over 3 years ago

The only good reason I can come up with for the "Staff" hamstringing your foot is because you were a coward and running away.

But helping the democrat menace destroy America is unforgivable.   ESAD you copulating kitty cat.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Leading from the front is very praiseworthy, but a company commander who actually goes on point in unit moves or patrols is being just f*cking incredibly irresponsible.

 

[franksolich]

Actually, it was kind of nice, reading something by hypertensive ol' Bob that wasn't full of hate and invective.

The sparkling old dude did that one time, some years ago, when instead of treating his audience to anger and swill, he described his days with the U.S. Navy.....coincidentally the same time hypertensive ol' Bob was in the service too; I think both were born in 1946, and served 1965-1967.

The sparkling old dude, born and raised in Connecticut, served as a cook aboard a mine-layer or mine-sweeper (I forget which) based in Charleston, South Carolina.

On this Memorial Day, I wish to thank the sparkling old dude again for his service those many years ago, when franksolich was very young and very lilliputian, and needed protected from a potential invasion of America by Sao Tome e Principe or Morocco.

[sneakypete]

Leading from the front is very praiseworthy, but a company commander who actually goes on point in unit moves or patrols is being just f*cking incredibly irresponsible.

 

@Dumbass Tanker

The whole thing is a lie to start with. He was a freaking Battalion mail clerk,and wanting to play the role of combat troop and talk about how going to war "changed him". Mail clerks didn't even get issued weapons.

"How my tour in VN as an unarmed mail clerk that never heard a shot fired changed my life" is just another example of the Dim mindset that says EVERYTHING is about "me,ME,ME,DAMMIT!"

And since WHEN have REMF mail clerks that were almost certainly E-3 or E-4's identify bodies for Graves Registration? It's always people like squad leaders or platoon sgts that were on the combat operation with the deceased that do that.

[SVPete]

Despite losing my foot to staff over 3 years ago ...

STAPH!  It's called staph, you simpleton.  Still with the staff.

Given his subsequent career as a Labor Department bureaucrat (and probably union near-mole) it is a rather humorous Malaprop.

[SVPete]

...  One thing I do know is the President Trump would try to take care of the soldiers under his command.  He comes across to me as that kind of guy. Now he demands loyalty, no question about that, but what leader doesn't?  President Trump at least understands that loyalty is a two way street.

I've worked for good bosses that are like that. You take care of them, they will take care of you.  That is the way it is supposed to be.

Trump gets something any good business manager does. He gives his people the tools and support - including respect and rewards - they need to do their jobs well.

Obama was too unaccomplished and too insecure to pick good people and support them that way.

[BlueStateSaint]

Leading from the front is very praiseworthy, but a company commander who actually goes on point in unit moves or patrols is being just f*cking incredibly irresponsible.

 

They might be able to get away with that once, but you can bet your fourth point of contact that the battalion commander would not look kindly on said activity.

And, Pete, Obama picked ideologues for his underlings.  If they thought that the enemy was/is the Republicans/conservatives, that was good enough for him.

[DumbAss Tanker]

@Dumbass Tanker

The whole thing is a lie to start with. He was a freaking Battalion mail clerk,and wanting to play the role of combat troop and talk about how going to war "changed him". Mail clerks didn't even get issued weapons.

"How my tour in VN as an unarmed mail clerk that never heard a shot fired changed my life" is just another example of the Dim mindset that says EVERYTHING is about "me,ME,ME,DAMMIT!"

And since WHEN have REMF mail clerks that were almost certainly E-3 or E-4's identify bodies for Graves Registration? It's always people like squad leaders or platoon sgts that were on the combat operation with the deceased that do that.

Yeah, I know all that.  I just found that little stereotypical tid-bit of war story cred particularly stupid. 

[SVPete]

...
And, Pete, Obama picked ideologues for his underlings.  ...

Ideological purity and servility over competency.

[franksolich]

Mail clerks didn't even get issued weapons.

Whoa.  Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Keep in mind however that franksolich is a life-long professional civilian, with little if any knowledge about how the military operates.

We have soldiers who don't get weapons?

It seems to me it shouldn't make any difference what "job" someone has in the military, even if a janitor or ditch-digger, he should at least be trained to use weapons, and have one with him at all times.

I'd surely feel better protected if that were the case.

[BlueStateSaint]

Whoa.  Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Keep in mind however that franksolich is a life-long professional civilian, with little if any knowledge about how the military operates.

We have soldiers who don't get weapons?

It seems to me it shouldn't make any difference what "job" someone has in the military, even if a janitor or ditch-digger, he should at least be trained to use weapons, and have one with him at all times.

I'd surely feel better protected if that were the case.

At least in my experience, chaplains didn't carry weapons.  Their assistants did, but they themselves didn't.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Whoa.  Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Keep in mind however that franksolich is a life-long professional civilian, with little if any knowledge about how the military operates.

We have soldiers who don't get weapons?

It seems to me it shouldn't make any difference what "job" someone has in the military, even if a janitor or ditch-digger, he should at least be trained to use weapons, and have one with him at all times.

I'd surely feel better protected if that were the case.

It's the sort of thing that varies from command to command, and the size of a base in a war zone, but an unfortunate aspect of the way the military really works is that commanders are much more concerned about getting in trouble for their soldiers doing something stupid with a weapon than they are of unarmed soldiers suddenly needing one if their base is penetrated or infiltrated.  The smaller the base, the more likely it would be that everyone's armed all the time.  On large bases, often only the actual perimeter force and a reaction force are armed all the time.  Outside a war zone, nobody's got a weapon and ammo except the MPs  and gate guards.

[SVPete]

...  Outside a war zone, nobody's got a weapon and ammo except the MPs  and gate guards.

E.G. Fort Hood, November, 2009.

[sneakypete]

Whoa.  Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Keep in mind however that franksolich is a life-long professional civilian, with little if any knowledge about how the military operates.

We have soldiers who don't get weapons?

Yes. REMF's on large bases with clerk jobs don't need weapons so they don't get weapons.

When I first got to VN in 68 I had a dislocated shoulder and a couple of pulled muscles in my lower back when I got off the airplane at Camn Rah Bay. Since I was on orders to the 5th SFG,it was none of their business who I was or what I was doing in VN to the personnel people there. Their job was to send new replacements that arrived without unit assignments (everybody but SF) to units needing replacements for people with their Millitary Occupation Speciality. Since this didn't apply to me or the other SF guys with me,we just got in touch with the SF rep at Camn Rah Bay and got scheduled to fly to Nha Trang to report in on the next thing heading that way.

When I got there with the sling and the limp,it was obvious I couldn't stay there because I wasn't physically fit for duty,so they sent me to a leg Signal Battalion at Nha Trang,and SGM Odom promised me faithfully that he would send somebody over with a jeep and orders to bring me back to the 5th the day I got off profile.

Since I was wildly unqualified to work in a communications center,which is what they did,they made me the company armorer because nobody else there knew anything about weapons. This was in late 68,and they were still being issued M-14's even though the standard battle rifle at this time was the M-16. Not a single one of those rifles left a rifle rack the 80+ days I was there,except to be cleaned and replaced. The guys in that company worked 12 hour shifts in a communications center in downtown Nha Trang,and one shift would get up at 7 AM and ride a bus to work,and the other shift would ride a bus to work at 7 PM. They had no need for rifles.

Besides the rifle racks,I also had the keys to the ammo bunker. My entire job was to make sure rifles that never left the barracks never left the barracks and were kept clean,and to make sure nobody got into the ammo bunker and got any ammo. In the 80+ days I was there the only round fired at anyone in the area was a couple of mortar rounds landed so far away I could barely hear the explosions,and everybody there went into a full-tilt panic thinking they were getting overran. A couple of the NCO's were even insisting I issue weapons and ammunition,and I flat refused. Nothing good would have came from that because the "plan" draw up by Battalion headquarters was to have the troops fall out behind sandbagged walls along the sides of the barracks,while meant that if they had automatic weapons they would have been pointing those automatic weapons at the guys in the other platoons from maybe 40 feet away. Guess what would have happened if just ONE accidental discharge had happened.

Anyhow,I was bored out of my freaking mind,and can't begin to explain how happy I was when my profile ran out and a jeep with a MSG in it from the 5th Group showed up with orders transferring me back there that same day. Once again I was back with sane people that knew what they were doing.

It seems to me it shouldn't make any difference what "job" someone has in the military, even if a janitor or ditch-digger, he should at least be trained to use weapons, and have one with him at all times.

EVERYBODY is trained to handle and use the current main battle rifles during basic training. They even get to fire them a few times while qualifying at the rifle range before graduation. After that,probably close to 90 percent of the soldiers in the army only see the rifle assigned to them once a  year,when they have to go back to the rifle range and qualify with it again. If you are not in a combat arms branch of the army,you don't need a rifle or other weapon to do your job,so why waste time and money doing this more often?

Don't misunderstand this. The guys in the combat arms branches see,handle,and shoot their weapons of all types all the time. Mostly with blanks because the army frowns on it's soldiers killing each other during training exercises,but blanks work to keep the troops familiarized with handling,loading,and shooting their weapons while maneuvering against enemy positions,so blanks are ideal for this purpose.

I'd surely feel better protected if that were the case.

You have nothing to worry about. The soldiers and Marines that need guns,have guns and are very familiar with how to use them.

[sneakypete]

  Outside a war zone, nobody's got a weapon and ammo except the MPs  and gate guards.

Generally true,but it is NOT a good idea to mess with guards at Special Warfare facilities at Ft.Bragg. They ARE armed with loaded weapons,and have orders to shoot to kill if they think the circumstances justify it.

Or that is how it used to be,anyhow. They might have civil service guards guarding their facilities there now for all I know. Chances are if they do,all their civil service guards are retired SF NCO's,so there still ain't no joy to be found from screwing with them. It should come as a surprise to no one that all the SF training facilities at Bragg that hire civilians to work with them mostly hire retired SF NCO's because they know and understand the job,and because they have the judgement and experience to know what to do. Last time I was at Camp McCall in the mid-90's one of the medics from our camp at Kontum was the Chief Medic at SFTG. The man spent 25+ years as a SF medic in combat operations and in peacetime training missions in 3rd world countries all over the world,so who are you going to find more qualified?

[I_B_Perky]

Yes. REMF's on large bases with clerk jobs don't need weapons so they don't get weapons.

When I first got to VN in 68 I had a dislocated shoulder and a couple of pulled muscles in my lower back when I got off the airplane at Camn Rah Bay. Since I was on orders to the 5th SFG,it was none of their business who I was or what I was doing in VN to the personnel people there. Their job was to send new replacements that arrived without unit assignments (everybody but SF) to units needing replacements for people with their Millitary Occupation Speciality. Since this didn't apply to me or the other SF guys with me,we just got in touch with the SF rep at Camn Rah Bay and got scheduled to fly to Nha Trang to report in on the next thing heading that way.

When I got there with the sling and the limp,it was obvious I couldn't stay there because I wasn't physically fit for duty,so they sent me to a leg Signal Battalion at Nha Trang,and SGM Odom promised me faithfully that he would send somebody over with a jeep and orders to bring me back to the 5th the day I got off profile.

Since I was wildly unqualified to work in a communications center,which is what they did,they made me the company armorer because nobody else there knew anything about weapons. This was in late 68,and they were still being issued M-14's even though the standard battle rifle at this time was the M-16. Not a single one of those rifles left a rifle rack the 80+ days I was there,except to be cleaned and replaced. The guys in that company worked 12 hour shifts in a communications center in downtown Nha Trang,and one shift would get up at 7 AM and ride a bus to work,and the other shift would ride a bus to work at 7 PM. They had no need for rifles.

Besides the rifle racks,I also had the keys to the ammo bunker. My entire job was to make sure rifles that never left the barracks never left the barracks and were kept clean,and to make sure nobody got into the ammo bunker and got any ammo. In the 80+ days I was there the only round fired at anyone in the area was a couple of mortar rounds landed so far away I could barely hear the explosions,and everybody there went into a full-tilt panic thinking they were getting overran. A couple of the NCO's were even insisting I issue weapons and ammunition,and I flat refused. Nothing good would have came from that because the "plan" draw up by Battalion headquarters was to have the troops fall out behind sandbagged walls along the sides of the barracks,while meant that if they had automatic weapons they would have been pointing those automatic weapons at the guys in the other platoons from maybe 40 feet away. Guess what would have happened if just ONE accidental discharge had happened.

Anyhow,I was bored out of my freaking mind,and can't begin to explain how happy I was when my profile ran out and a jeep with a MSG in it from the 5th Group showed up with orders transferring me back there that same day. Once again I was back with sane people that knew what they were doing.


EVERYBODY is trained to handle and use the current main battle rifles during basic training. They even get to fire them a few times while qualifying at the rifle range before graduation. After that,probably close to 90 percent of the soldiers in the army only see the rifle assigned to them once a  year,when they have to go back to the rifle range and qualify with it again. If you are not in a combat arms branch of the army,you don't need a rifle or other weapon to do your job,so why waste time and money doing this more often?

Don't misunderstand this. The guys in the combat arms branches see,handle,and shoot their weapons of all types all the time. Mostly with blanks because the army frowns on it's soldiers killing each other during training exercises,but blanks work to keep the troops familiarized with handling,loading,and shooting their weapons while maneuvering against enemy positions,so blanks are ideal for this purpose.

You have nothing to worry about. The soldiers and Marines that need guns,have guns and are very familiar with how to use them.

Just a little friendly observation here... Frank might be deaf but he certainly is not blind.  Kind of a large font there.   

[docstew]

At least in my experience, chaplains didn't carry weapons.  Their assistants did, but they themselves didn't.

That's true. Chaplains don't carry weapons. In current operations, everyone else does carry weapons and at least one magazine of ammo while deployed. Back stateside, no one carries anything unless you're going to the range.