Fire at club in Oakland: Trump's fault

[Ralph Wiggum]

Gear up for a litany of this for the next 8 years.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141630609

exboyfil

1. I wonder how many of these incidents we would hav

if we got rid of those pesky regulations like fire codes. Trump is very much against fire codes.

philosslayer

4. The Trump effect is going to be quite pervasive

As morbid as it sounds, if we're going to keep a "Trump Death Count", these poor folks might be the first on the list.

To be absolutely fair, most DUmmies in this thread are not outright blaming President-elect Trump.

[Doc Savage]

Of course that pesky little item that fire codes are written locally.  And what party is in charge of Oakland again?

[jb2u11]

The almighty Trump.  He's not even president yet and he is already abolishing fire regulations and killing people.  No wonder the DUmmies fear him if they think he has that kind of power.

[Carl]

They deliberately flouted codes,play stupid games...

[SVPete]

exboyfil

1. I wonder how many of these incidents we would hav

if we got rid of those pesky regulations like fire codes. Trump is very much against fire codes.

Actually, in his speech at Carrier, Trump affirmed the necessity of regs that have to do with safety. But as DS pointed out, fire codes are city, county, or state regs, not Federal regs.

[Mr Mannn]

The public learned they could not trust the media this year. The media message was rejected.
at what point will liberals figure out that bogus sh!t like this doesn't sell anymore?

[FunkyZero]

Gear up for a litany of this for the next 8 years.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141630609

To be absolutely fair, most DUmmies in this thread are not outright blaming President-elect Trump.

Well, at least they can't blame the hurricanes on him, they already busted G-Dub and pinned that one on him

[miskie]

The almighty Trump.  He's not even president yet and he is already abolishing fire regulations and killing people.  No wonder the DUmmies fear him if they think he has that kind of power.

Well, the moment he became President-elect, he got keys to the VRWC time machine.

[SVPete]

They deliberately flouted codes,play stupid games...

At newest, the building was probably WW2 era construction, probably fell into disuse in the 1960s or 1970s. IF it was code-compliant for current industrial use, virtually any renovation with permits probably would have triggered a very extensive and expensive mandated retrofitting to make it partially compliant with new construction codes, just for industrial use. But as you suggest, it was being used for human habitation (and looked like an antique store or hoarders' hang-out), for which it was not legal, and this "party" was basically using the place as an entertainment venue. It was a predictable disaster.

It was also the product of liberal governance that politicized basic functions like policing and building code inspections. This place had been inspected and found non-compliant a month before, but only after neighbors' complaints and probably after years of non-compliant use (and maybe years of complaints!). Had some developer tried to "gentrify" (= convert to housing) this building, the City of Oakland would have been all over the developer, harassing and milking $$ from them. But this was an "artists' collective", so bureaucratic myopia was the order of the day.

[fatboy]

While the dummies try to blame the attitudes of republicans for this tragic event, in the end it will become the tax payers of Oakland who pay the price.

Not a direct comparison because those who died or were injured were civilians, not paid firefighters. In 2005 in NYC, the courts found the city mostly to blame and the building managers/owners very little fault for what is known as Black Sunday where ultimately 3 firefighters died in a structure with illegal subdivisions. http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/bronx/families-black-sunday-firefighters-awarded-183m-article-1.2540308

One of the surviving firefighters is FF Eugene Stolowski. He gives training to firefighters all over the country. I attended one of his training sessions where he recounted the day. Jumping 5 stories to escape, he suffered an internal decapitation but obviously survived. So I have an interest in this particular case, and deep down I feel that after many long protracted legal battles, the city of Oakland will end up bearing the brunt of the legal costs for this event. The loved ones of the victims will blame lax enforcement of existing safety codes as the fault and will win bigly.

We shall see.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

FACT: Nobody died from accidental, malicious or natural causes during Obama's presidency.

Anyone saying otherwise is spewing RW talking points.

[AprilRazz]

At newest, the building was probably WW2 era construction, probably fell into disuse in the 1960s or 1970s. IF it was code-compliant for current industrial use, virtually any renovation with permits probably would have triggered a very extensive and expensive mandated retrofitting to make it partially compliant with new construction codes, just for industrial use. But as you suggest, it was being used for human habitation (and looked like an antique store or hoarders' hang-out), for which it was not legal, and this "party" was basically using the place as an entertainment venue. It was a predictable disaster.

It was also the product of liberal governance that politicized basic functions like policing and building code inspections. This place had been inspected and found non-compliant a month before, but only after neighbors' complaints and probably after years of non-compliant use (and maybe years of complaints!). Had some developer tried to "gentrify" (= convert to housing) this building, the City of Oakland would have been all over the developer, harassing and milking $$ from them. But this was an "artists' collective", so bureaucratic myopia was the order of the day.

Looking at the photos I am really surprised it didn't go up a while ago. http://www.oaklandghostship.com/

[BlueStateSaint]

Looking at the photos I am really surprised it didn't go up a while ago. http://www.oaklandghostship.com/

Not far from where I now live, there used to be a building of similar construction (wood) that served as a concert venue.  Our next-door neighbor's younger daughter would go, and try to take my youngest sister with her.  My dad flatly refused Kellie when she would ask about going there.  The place went up in a fire that was later determined to be arson, one night when it just happened to be closed.  The owner wound up spending time in Attica for the arson, IIRC.

[FiddyBeowulf]

At newest, the building was probably WW2 era construction, probably fell into disuse in the 1960s or 1970s. IF it was code-compliant for current industrial use, virtually any renovation with permits probably would have triggered a very extensive and expensive mandated retrofitting to make it partially compliant with new construction codes, just for industrial use. But as you suggest, it was being used for human habitation (and looked like an antique store or hoarders' hang-out), for which it was not legal, and this "party" was basically using the place as an entertainment venue. It was a predictable disaster.

It was also the product of liberal governance that politicized basic functions like policing and building code inspections. This place had been inspected and found non-compliant a month before, but only after neighbors' complaints and probably after years of non-compliant use (and maybe years of complaints!). Had some developer tried to "gentrify" (= convert to housing) this building, the City of Oakland would have been all over the developer, harassing and milking $$ from them. But this was an "artists' collective", so bureaucratic myopia was the order of the day.

It is the same problem in Milwaukee. Here the alderman sit on vacant properties collecting no taxes on them and refusing to sell them because they either want to turn them into parks or they think they can get many times what the property is actually worth.

[SVPete]

Looking at the photos I am really surprised it didn't go up a while ago. http://www.oaklandghostship.com/

In more ways than one! From scanning through the pix:

* That clutter: is years', not days' accumulation; was on both floors of the interior; was worth 10s of thousands of dollars;

* There were multiple "living room" spaces, indicating that people were, in fact, living there, not just coming there for "work";

* That "facility" was used as a coffee/tea house, with entertainment;

* There were posters from several live performance events, going back at least a year.

As fb pointed out, the City of Oakland was VERY lax in enforcing its building, habitation, and zoning laws. I doubt they were quite so generous with developers wanting to rehab old disused industrial structures into real housing.

[landofconfusion80]

In more ways than one! From scanning through the pix:

* That clutter: is years', not days' accumulation; was on both floors of the interior; was worth 10s of thousands of dollars;

* There were multiple "living room" spaces, indicating that people were, in fact, living there, not just coming there for "work";

* That "facility" was used as a coffee/tea house, with entertainment;

* There were posters from several live performance events, going back at least a year.

As fb pointed out, the City of Oakland was VERY lax in enforcing its building, habitation, and zoning laws. I doubt they were quite so generous with developers wanting to rehab old disused industrial structures into real housing.

To make matters worse, California makes it almost impossible to remove squatters

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[DUmpstruck]

Rumor has it that California is now introducing legislation to ban assault fires. 

[Skul]

Looking at the photos I am really surprised it didn't go up a while ago. http://www.oaklandghostship.com/

Most excellent link you've provided, AR. 
Well worth the   

[98ZJUSMC]

Well, the moment he became President-elect, he got keys to the VRWC time machine.

Ssssssshhhhh!  .....Top Secret.

[Ptarmigan]

exboyfil

1. I wonder how many of these incidents we would hav

if we got rid of those pesky regulations like fire codes. Trump is very much against fire codes.

Wrong DUmmy! Try again!

Building inspectors had not been inside Oakland warehouse in 30 years, officials say
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-oakland-fire-inspections-20161207-story.html

Oakland officials revealed Thursday that no building code enforcement inspector has been inside the warehouse where 36 people died in at least 30 years, raising new questions about government oversight of the property.

The interim director of the city's planning and building department said the agency only goes into buildings when the owner seeks a permit or if officials receive a complaint.

[SVPete]

I saw an article about this yesterday on the Daily Mail. The building had been leased to the founder of whatever the place could be called. Putting it nicely, the guy sounds like a quasi-religious fruitcake; one former sub-tenant called him a cult leader. It also mentioned that the guy had been in this location for a couple of years or more.

The guy has freedom of religion and can be as fruitcakey as he wants, but when it comes to safety it sounds like the City of Oakland and the building owner were REALLY negligent.