Proglodytes: It's not me, it's you. So, when are you coming back to me?

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

"You know you're too ****ing stupid and ugly and undesirable to live without me."

DanTex (16,304 posts)

No, the Democratic Party doesn't need to be burned down and rebuilt.
   
We lost a very close election due to a number of factors, which include racism/sexism, a phony FBI investigation, and Hillary Clinton's lack of stage charisma. Don't get me wrong, I think Clinton would have been a great president, but she is an intellectual, a policy wonk, not a rousing public speaker. And in this age, in order to get elected, you have to be a performer.

So what we need to do, and in retrospect should have done, is pick someone with more charisma to run. If we did that, we would have won this time.

I keep hearing about how the Dems abandoned the "white working class" in favor of "identity politics." That's absurd.

The Dems didn't abandon the white working class, the GOP did. The platform Hillary ran on was highly economically progressive. And this isn't new, the platform is basically the same as the platform that Obama has been trying to get enacted, but has been blocked at every turn by the GOP congress. The idea that the Dems somehow sold out to Wall Street and big corporations, and need to "find their soul" is a total myth.

In terms of a post-mortem, another thing the Dems should have done better is communicate to voters that the President doesn't write laws, congress does. Yes, middle class incomes have been stagnating under Obama. This is not because of Obama, it is because of Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell. And it was an intentional strategy by the GOP. They know that whatever happens will be credited/blamed on Obama, which is why wage stagnation was politically advantageous to them.

And even despite GOP opposition, the economy is doing pretty well, thanks to the Dems. We didn't embrace austerity like Europe, and as a result we recovered more quickly. Sure, the stimulus should have been bigger, the minimum wage should be higher, we need to spend a lot more on infrastructure and clean energy, but these are all things Obama pushed for and didn't get.

The GOP managed to convince almost half of Americans that Obama and the Dems are to blame for the actions of the GOP congress. If we start eating our own with the "burn the party down" rhetoric that's coming out of the leftist punditry, we are playing into their hands.

hueymahl (952 posts)

1. Maybe not burned down

But it needs to do some serious soul searching, and there should be a REAL post-mortem going on.

Leadership change, yes. Reevaluation of tactics, yes. Fundamental review of its core beliefs, especially its cozy relationship with big business, yes.

Business as usual or superficial changes like you have described? Only if you want an 8 year Trump presidency.

Demsrule86 (7,875 posts)

3. No those who are calling for this soul searching did not support the party and we have no time

We must work to defeat Trump.

Demsrule86 (7,875 posts)

70. We already tried burning the party down during the primary and lost...

Time to fight Trump...start at the grassroots for any reform...not at the national level...God knows we need to work on the states. We simply have no time to have a big fight and come together in time for 18 or 20. Trump is the enemy... not the Democratic Party.

Not to draw too fine a point but...

You're making a big fight with your fellow Proglodytes.

So, basically, you guys are fighting over whether or not to have a fight. You're fighting on the anti-fight side and thus losing by default.

Ace Rothstein (940 posts)

4. You can't just look at the Presidential race and come to this conclusion.

Republicans have more power than they've ever had. Whatever we're doing at the State level has been a monumental disaster. With the lack of good options at the State level, we have no bench of candidates for national offices.

ihaveaquestion (1,599 posts)

5. Not convinced...

The Dems need to explain what they did to prevent the working class being left behind. I'm fairly well read and follow politics more than the average Jane, but I'd have to struggle to do this.

Example # 1: What was done to prevent coal miners from being cut loose without benefits... as illustrated by this recent post on DU...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017412169

Dems have some 'splainin to do.

DanTex (16,304 posts)

13. They do need to explain better that the GOP congress has been blocking Dem

legislation, I agree with you there. The problem is that Obama, and Hillary by association, get blamed for what Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell do.

1. When have you NOT blamed your every failure on the GOP?

2. In the OP you were claiming it's all puppy dogs and rainbows.

Your entire argument centers on you not communicating your message well enough.

Have you stopped to consider the possibility that your message was heard loud and clear?

DanTex (16,304 posts)

24. I do, and Obama did a good job of fighting the obstruction.

He achieved a lot working within the executive branch, especially on climate. And in his first two years he passed more progressive legislation than we've seen in a generation or more. But with the GOP in control of the house, no progressive legislation was getting through, that's the reality.

The problem with the party has nothing to do with "rolling over." The GOP has had the votes in the house for 6 years, no amount of "fighting" could change that.

You are living in a fantasy world where the president rules by decree, and it's "big money donors" rather than congress who prevents things like a higher minimum wage from becoming law.

The GOP has had the House for 6 years and the Senate for 2 precisely because of Obama. We literally could not have achieved our successes without him.

Yet, you persist.

SaschaHM (1,484 posts)

11. It does if you're a vulture who wants to impose your policy positions regardless...

of whether they were right or not. An outsider had the nerve to run in the democratic primary after 8 years of Obama, after the passing of Obamacare, Dodd-Frank, the repeal of DADT, the appointment of judges that protect Unions/LGBT folks, etc, screeching that the Democratic party did not care about working class people. Now that vulture has shown up once again surprised that some people actually listened to his lies. The Democratic Party needs to continue giving progressive voices a seat at the table, as it has done before Sanders, it does not need to become his own personal policy shop because he can not be trusted. You're giving the GOP a lot of credit for work that Sanders did during and after the primary.

KPN (2,186 posts)

14. Ah, blame Bernie Sanders.

There's a winning strategy.

SaschaHM (1,484 posts)

16. I didn't tell Bernie to act like a shameless vulture before anyone had even talked to the....

folks that we lost, did I? He was out showing his ass the day after the election before the corpse of the Democratic party was even cold. I don't care if it's a winning strategy or not. He will not and should not profit off of disharmony that he sowed and created because he couldn't take the fact that voters of color rejected him during the primary. I am glad that he has been aged out of the presidency and I hope they we can actually get a progressive Dem that doesn't want to burn down the party to run for the seat in VT in 2018.

Unca Jim (489 posts)

49. Really?

Sanders busted his ass to get Clinton elected.

If we refuse to learn from this election, we are doomed as a party.

SaschaHM (1,484 posts)

56. He busted his ass after hobbling her and the democratic party.

If there is one thing we should learn, it's that primaries and the things that one says during them after they've lost matter. How do you think Bernie would have faired if Hillary spent weeks after losing a primary writing op eds and telling everyone that she could find that Bernie's tax raising policies were unrealistic or that he didn't focus on minority issues as much as he could? He would have lost as well.

He dared challenge the queen!

Last I checked you assholes were chasing off the Bern-outs by calling them racist/sexist.

Gothmog (33,344 posts)

77. Agreed

I strongly agree with the OP. There is no need to rebuild the Democratic Party

You brats just keep doing exactly what you've been doing since 2009.

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512621226

[USA4ME]

We'll see if the bern-out types can resist going back to the comfort of mother. As weak minded as libs are, I doubt they can.

But, if Dems continued to be perceived as the party of corporate interest over average citizen, and especially if they keep tight with their corporate backers (and I don't see them walking away from that type of cash), or if the bern-outs believe in any way they are still too willing to fold to the Republicans, that could be enough to keep the bern-outs away and cause some others to leave.

.

[Carl]

Their problem is simple.
White,working people are the ones needed to pay for their pandering to all their little victim groups.
Pretty hard to forever shame them into voting against their best interests. 

[FunkyZero]

In their whirling rages and rants, they don't even realize that they are demanding to defeat a President who has NO power yet, hasn't taken office yet or issued a single order. It's all about the win, not policy or path. Every single one of them needs punched directly in the throat.

[freedumb2003b]

He achieved a lot working within the executive branch, especially on climate. And in his first two years he passed more progressive legislation than we've seen in a generation or more.

By XO.  All of which will be repealed by President Trump.

"Climate Change" takes thousands of years.  2 years means nothing.  Except a power grab that you can't hols anymore.

[Patriot Guard Rider]

Unca Jim (489 posts)

49. Really?

Sanders busted his ass to get Clinton elected.

If we refuse to learn from this election, we are doomed as a party.

Well Unca Jim, we're trying to tell you what you need to fix, but apparently no one on your side wants to listen.

So your side has doubled down on the hate speech, calling us every name in the book, only IN CAPITAL LETTERS. Like that means something. You side will riot, burn, loot and intimidate electoral college voters to reverse a fair election. Yet your side went ballistic when Trump said "He'd see when the time came", whether or not he'd blindly accept the election results. Irony much?

Your side suffered massive losses in '10, '14 and now a complete ass kicking in '16, yet your side won't change.

I can't wait till '18 and Trumps re-election in '20.

We won. Get over it.

[notaDUmmie]

Gothmog (33,344 posts)

77. Agreed

I strongly agree with the OP. There is no need to rebuild the Democratic Party

YAY!!! Gothmog is back!!!

[Mr Mannn]

Once again, democrats learn NOTHING. Obama won two terms but decimated his own party.
There are fewer elected democrats than at anytime since the 1920s.
state houses have gone to republicans...the most in history. 33 Republican govenors, the House and Senate are both in GOP hands...

and now we will control the USSC for a generation.

looking at all of this, how can the DUmmies say there is no need to change? The need to change is creaming at you! If the rats turn a deaf ear to change the GOP will rule forever.

[DUmpstruck]

Gothmog (33,344 posts)

77. Agreed

I strongly agree with the OP. There is no need to rebuild the Democratic Party

One does not rebuild rotting, decaying structures that have long since passed their usefulness.
You either burn it down or cart it off to the landfill.

[Delmar]

Black Lives Matter Activists Plan to Disrupt Black Friday Shopping in Major Cities

https://pjmedia.com/trending/2016/11/23/black-lives-matter-activists-plan-to-disrupt-black-friday-shopping-in-major-cities/

This'll show those Trump voters the error of their ways. 

No need for democrats to change their ways.  Forward!

[CollectivismMustDie]

(my comments in red)

DanTex (16,304 posts)

No, the Democratic Party doesn't need to be burned down and rebuilt.

Burned down and left a smoking pile of rubble in public square as an example for the next ten generations that some things come with too high a price, sounds a lot better to me.
   
We lost a very close election due to a number of factors, which include racism/sexism, a phony FBI investigation, and Hillary Clinton's lack of stage charisma. Don't get me wrong, I think Clinton would have been a great president, but she is an intellectual, a policy wonk, not a rousing public speaker. And in this age, in order to get elected, you have to be a performer.

An 'intellectual policy wonk' who doesn't know what the letter C stands for on government documents?

So what we need to do, and in retrospect should have done, is pick someone with more charisma to run. If we did that, we would have won this time.

Increasingly, when I hear one of you suggest  picking someone with "more charisma", what I hear is "we need to pick a better liar". Well, she was the queen of the liars and will never be president of the United States, and her husband the king is termed out and so will his runner up shortly be. I hope you enjoy watching the clock tick down on that like we are. Tick tick tick.



I keep hearing about how the Dems abandoned the "white working class" in favor of "identity politics." That's absurd.

Its not absurd, its a fact, and it is as plain as the hate on your face.

The Dems didn't abandon the white working class, the GOP did. The platform Hillary ran on was highly economically progressive. And this isn't new, the platform is basically the same as the platform that Obama has been trying to get enacted, but has been blocked at every turn by the GOP congress. The idea that the Dems somehow sold out to Wall Street and big corporations, and need to "find their soul" is a total myth.

That is your public position, what is your private position?

In terms of a post-mortem, another thing the Dems should have done better is communicate to voters that the President doesn't write laws, congress does. Yes, middle class incomes have been stagnating under Obama. This is not because of Obama, it is because of Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell. And it was an intentional strategy by the GOP. They know that whatever happens will be credited/blamed on Obama, which is why wage stagnation was politically advantageous to them.

And even despite GOP opposition, the economy is doing pretty well, thanks to the Dems. We didn't embrace austerity like Europe, and as a result we recovered more quickly. Sure, the stimulus should have been bigger, the minimum wage should be higher, we need to spend a lot more on infrastructure and clean energy, but these are all things Obama pushed for and didn't get.

We pretty much didn't recover at all, (D)Ummie. In fact, the best the stocks have done, was right after everyone knew trump was president elect.

The GOP managed to convince almost half of Americans that Obama and the Dems are to blame for the actions of the GOP congress. If we start eating our own with the "burn the party down" rhetoric that's coming out of the leftist punditry, we are playing into their hands.

You are an idiot. Please continue.

[SVPete]

After being way too optimistic in the aftermath of 2002 and 2004, I'm leery of predicting the demise of a political party. But if Ds keep using this swimming hole,





the Ds really might do long-term damage to their future (especially if the Rs refrain from going Full Spendamatic).

[I_B_Perky]

After being way too optimistic in the aftermath of 2002 and 2004, I'm leery of predicting the demise of a political party. But if Ds keep using this swimming hole, the Ds really might do long-term damage to their future (especially if the Rs refrain from going Full Spendamatic).

When you have only two parties, the actual demise of one or the other would be a rare occurrence.  A bright spot is when the GOP gets control in congress, they usually keep it for a number of years. Dems always overreach if there is no check on their congress majority and usually promptly lose it in an election or two.

The lib talkarati are all now saying that this election was the last stand of the white male majority. I wonder what the demographic stats are gonna be when we finally shut off the flow of illegals and hopefully start deporting the rest that are already here.  I think just doing that alone would solve a lot of local budget shortfalls.

[ChuckJ]

DanTex (16,304 posts)

No, the Democratic Party doesn't need to be burned down and rebuilt.
   
We lost a very close election due to a number of factors, which include racism/sexism, a phony FBI investigation, and Hillary Clinton's lack of stage charisma. Don't get me wrong, I think Clinton would have been a great president, but she is an intellectual, a policy wonk, not a rousing public speaker. And in this age, in order to get elected, you have to be a performer.

So what we need to do, and in retrospect should have done, is pick someone with more charisma to run. If we did that, we would have won this time.

I keep hearing about how the Dems abandoned the "white working class" in favor of "identity politics." That's absurd.

The Dems didn't abandon the white working class, the GOP did. The platform Hillary ran on was highly economically progressive. And this isn't new, the platform is basically the same as the platform that Obama has been trying to get enacted, but has been blocked at every turn by the GOP congress. The idea that the Dems somehow sold out to Wall Street and big corporations, and need to "find their soul" is a total myth.

In terms of a post-mortem, another thing the Dems should have done better is communicate to voters that the President doesn't write laws, congress does. Yes, middle class incomes have been stagnating under Obama. This is not because of Obama, it is because of Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell. And it was an intentional strategy by the GOP. They know that whatever happens will be credited/blamed on Obama, which is why wage stagnation was politically advantageous to them.

So what you're saying is that after all of this time of saying it was Bush's fault you really meant it was the congressional dem's fault?

[Skul]

DanTex (16,304 posts)

No, the Democratic Party doesn't need to be burned down and rebuilt.
 

Burn the bwitch, burn it!   

If we refuse to learn from this election, we are doomed as a party.

Must burn the unclean. Burn it.

  hueymahl (952 posts) 

1. Maybe not burned down....   

HERESY!!! Burn the heretic!!

  Demsrule86 (7,875 posts) 

70. We already tried burning the party down during the primary and lost.

Light that fire again, light it.

   KPN (2,186 posts) 

14. Ah, blame Bernie Sanders. 

Oh yes! Bern it, Bern it all the way down. 

Feasting on each other. This is great.