http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=226x6521Oh my.
erinlough Donating Member (928 posts) Thu Jul-24-08 02:20 AM
Original message
Is this a civil liberty violation?
And if it is what do I do about it?
My son was camping at his bosses house after a party. He flipped an off the road vehicle on private property and was taken to the hospital while he was completely out. Luckily he only had a slight concussion and some bruising. Flash forward two weeks and a sheriffs deputy knocks on his door and takes him to jail charged with operating an ORV under the influence, this was the first time he had heard of a charge. He posts bail, gets a lawyer.
We go to the pretrial hearing and the lawyer goes in to talk with the prosecutor and comes to us telling us that the head of security at the courthouse, who is a neighbor of the property owner where my son got hurt, asked a judge to order the prosecutor to pursue the case after the prosecutor had decided to throw it out, because he wanted to teach the property owner a lesson. That was why there was a two week delay in arresting him.
The head of security is an ex Michigan state police official of high rank and has a personal vendetta against the property owner.
The Law regarding ORV's in Michigan is vague and severe. He faces the same sanctions he would if he were in a car on the road.
I'm not condoning what my son did, but I am upset that a civil servant because of his present job can influence who gets charged and which cases are prosecuted. My son wants to take the punishment and deal with it. I think this kind of thing is just plain wrong. The lawyer says this is just the way our county works but in my mind it is the way it will always work unless someone says something.
What do you think
franksolich thinks, isn't favoritism among governmental officials a pretty run-of-the-mill, everyday, ordinary, thing in cities and states run by corrupt political machines?
So what's the big deal?
Wabbajack_ (159 posts) Thu Jul-24-08 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. Judges can order DAs to file charges?
something is fishy.
Faux pas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-24-08 03:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. If it were me, I'd contact the ACLU. In mho, something is really wrong with this picture. Good luck to you son, glad he wasn't bably injured.
MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-24-08 03:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. well
was he under the influence and does Michigan have a law against operating an ORV while under the influence? While at the hospital was a blood alcohol drawn? I find it a bit unbelievable that basically a bailiff told a judge to pursue a case, that's not how the system works. The missing facts make your story fishy to me.
erinlough Donating Member (928 posts) Thu Jul-24-08 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Sorry it sounds fishy to you, I thought I was being clear.
I said he was charged with operating under the influence, so I assumed you would know he was drinking. That is not the issue. Michigan has an ORV law, after review the prosecutor was not going to pursue because the law does not mention use on private property. The court house employee then inserted himself in the case by basically calling on the judge and asking him to pressure the prosecutor to pursue it. I am not saying my son is in the right, I said that in the post. I am saying I live in a county where who you know determines the kind of justice you get and I think that is wrong.
I am not asking for anyone to say my son was right or perhaps should not have been charged. He will pay the price he has to pay. Do you want to have the court system controlled by personal vendettas?
I'm pissed and personally I don't care if you think my "story" sounds fishy, it is the truth.
MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-24-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Once again
"I said he was charged with operating under the influence, so I assumed you would know he was drinking. That is not the issue."
If that's not the issue then why is he in court?
Which made you more pissed, his drinking and driving or the getting caught part? When you make the story public understand you will get both sides in response.
"Do you want to have the court system controlled by personal vendettas?"
Does Michigan have a law against operating an ORV while under the influence? Does that law exclude private property? That's the only question here, the rest is hearsay.
mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-24-08 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. Remember its election year and in michigan judges are elected to the bench so they are more apt to go after people to get convictions in order to get votes. Judges also will harsher sentences during election years, a person convicted of a crime or one who takes a plea bargain for probation instead of jail often find themselves in prison because the judge is trying to look like he is tough on crime. I've seen cases that, in non election years, would have been thrown out of court end up going to court. And I have also heard of stuff like this topic suggests.
The problem is reguardless what the OP thinks or says went down between the judge ex cop and DA, he has to prove said event happened. As far as the time between the accident and the charges, another non issue, all the police have to say is it took 2 weeks to investagate the accident. Remember michigan is one of the states that don't record "interviews" with suspects in most cases, they lead the suspect to believe he/she is being recorded but rarely is there a recording.
erinlough Donating Member (928 posts) Thu Jul-24-08 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Thank you for the good information
If he gets the maximum and I could prove that influence was used do you think anything could be done?
mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-24-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. To be honest if said person that has a thing against the owner of the property your son was on, he could easily say your son was riding on the shoulder of the road before your son lost control and flipped the ORV. It would then be hard for you to prove he wasn't on the road way, remember michigan road ways include 25 feet of the property you own.
As far as the judge getting involved also take into account that the property owner next to the property son was riding on is also a servent of the court and he has a duty to tell the judge if something needs to be looked into that the DA missed. I also get the feeling your son talked to the police without a lawyer present and admitted he had been drinking. Even if he had not of told the police, if the medical team were aware of his drinking they would have to tell police that fact.
Legal matters are best handled by lawyers and you should have one you and your son can talk matters over with. Taking your case into an open forum seeking legal advise isn't going to help as you will get non legal advise from non legal experts and to be honest we can not get the evidence that is being used against your son, all we have is what you say happened, but without the paper work from the court we have no ideal what the court is saying happened. Sorry I can't be more help but I am not able to give legal advise except talk to a lawyer.
erinlough Donating Member (928 posts) Thu Jul-24-08 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. He will get and take whatever penalty he is given.
Was I pissed at him? Yes and still am.
Can the law be interpreted to include private property? It is not mentioned whether the law pertains to public or private land, so probably yes.
Do we have legal council who is handling the case? Yes
I am not saying my son was wronged from the perspective of what he did. I am simply wondering if our legal system, at least in my county, is run by who you know. I was told by the lawyer this is how it is always done.
He seems comfortable with that. OK, as a citizen I am not. I think not only my son, who could afford a lawyer, but the many people waiting for their pre-trial hearings with their babies around them, no lawyer, no influence deserve better, deserve blind justice without having to know the right people. I am beginning to think I am wrong. I am beginning to realize that because I have never been involved with the court system I bought a stupid American idea that there is true justice. I think I must be pretty naive.
mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Jul-25-08 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Ayep, America has the best justice money can buy.
I wasn't trying to beat up on you, I was just trying to point out some facts about the legal system. It really sucks because court appointed lawyers will push poor people into accepting plea bargains that turn out to do more harm to the person in the long run then if said person took the risk of a jury trial. Even a judge will bring pressure on the poor to accept the plea or else face stiffer sentences if found guilty. Remember once a person accepts a plea they are admitting guilt and you here it from the right all the time, he must be guilty he coped the plea.
To be honest it sucks and people are willfully ignorant on how americas justice system really works, after all why care you won't find yourself in "that" kind of trouble, only criminals and wrong doers get brought up to the court system. Then when it hits you in the face, you go into shock how quickly you went from honest Joe citizen to convict 367895.
norepubsin08 (85 posts) Fri Jul-25-08 02:36 AM
Response to Original message
10. what bullshit
that is one of the major things wrong with this country...assholes pushing their weight around where it doesn't belong!
I dunno.
Whether in the right or the wrong, I got no sympathy for the primitive.
Favoritism, nepotism, cronyism, runs rampant in blue cities and blue states run by corrupt political machines.
There's hardly any doubt the primitive has always voted in support of his local and state machine.
One gets what one votes for.
