Author Topic: Pope Francis says atheists can go to heaven  (Read 1844 times)

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Offline Chris_

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Pope Francis says atheists can go to heaven
« on: December 27, 2015, 02:18:27 PM »
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Pope Francis offers hope to faithless, says atheists can go to heaven

Pope Francis says God opens heaven's doors to non-believers who "obey their conscience," shaking a widely-held assumption about Christian beliefs and reinforcing his image as the most progressive pontiff in history.

"You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don't believe and who don't seek the faith," Francis wrote in a little known 2013 open letter published in the Italian newspaper La Repubblica. Francis was responding to questions from the paper's 91-year-old founder Eugenio Scalfari, reports Britain's The Independent.

"I start by saying -- and this is the fundamental thing -- that God's mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart," Francis wrote. "The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience. Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience."
Oregon Live

The Barack Obama of Popes opens his face hole again. :whatever:
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Offline thundley4

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Re: Pope Francis says atheists can go to heaven
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2015, 04:37:33 PM »
I've always wondered about the people born before the Bible was written or before Christ was born. Were they all sent to perdition or Hell?

What about people that have never heard of Christ, but have lived their life in a Christian way?

Offline freedumb2003b

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Re: Pope Francis says atheists can go to heaven
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2015, 08:00:08 PM »
Dang!

All these years of believing and explaining to so many that it is only through Jesus Christ Our Lord are we redeemed.

Now, I can live the life of the Prodigal Son without ever caring a whit about the result!

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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Pope Francis says atheists can go to heaven
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2015, 06:41:55 AM »
I've always wondered about the people born before the Bible was written or before Christ was born. Were they all sent to perdition or Hell?

What about people that have never heard of Christ, but have lived their life in a Christian way?

Dunno about the Pope's comments as

1) I haven't read them in full and

2) I don't trust the media to not twist his words to fit their agenda of sticking their thumbs in the eyes of Christians but

many atheists of the sort we see at DU and in liberal circles are just spoil sports that are mad God is ruining their hedonist binges or are mad at God that the world is hard-bitten. They really are just that shallow and juvenile.

That sort could never be saved because even if God were a bleeding heart liberal in His own right they would still shake their fists at Him. They will reject Him long after He might offer them any clemency. Such is the absolute nature of damnation.

In his letter to the Jews in Rome, Paul wrote that if they who do not have The Law (specifically translated, the Mosaic law) do the things contained in the law it is counted to them for the sake of righteousness.

Ditto transgressions of the law.

This is not so far fetched as all human societies share common moral precepts: you cannot go around killing people willy-nilly, you cannot take other people's property, you cannot just take whatever woman you want and then send her on her way as if she is just a mere object, there is something that transcends human existence and you ignore it at your peril, etc.

(However, many cultures practice some fairly morally repugnant practices such as institutionalized violent rape contrary to the "noble savage" mythology of liberal academia.)

Yet, in the Book of Acts he also specifically states there is only one way to receive forgiveness of sins -- through Jesus.

So, is it possible for someone who never heard a single line of scripture to be recognize The Divine when they finally meet and say, "You are what I always knew existed."?

Yes.

Does that lift the burden of evangelism?

In a world where many cultures do carry "immoral" practices and where people -- even in the best of circumstances -- recognize they have fallen short there is much work to be done.

I think of the passage just after the resurrection where one of the disciples encounters a eunuch who was reading the Isaiah. The eunuch did not understand what he was reading -- but he wanted to know. Whatever his life's circumstances were something gnawed inside of him.

Had he never met the disciple could we say God would have turned His back on the eunuch over a failure of happenstance or would God have honored the desire to know?

I think any debate arises from people seeking to assert one Pauline principle over another.

Perhaps they should pipe down long enough to accept each idea equally.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 06:46:46 AM by SGT Snuggle Bunny »
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Offline FlaGator

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Re: Pope Francis says atheists can go to heaven
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2015, 07:21:25 AM »
Quote
Pope Francis says God opens heaven's doors to non-believers who "obey their conscience," shaking a widely-held assumption about Christian beliefs and reinforcing his image as the most progressive pontiff in history.

"You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don't believe and who don't seek the faith," Francis wrote in a little known 2013 open letter published in the Italian newspaper La Repubblica. Francis was responding to questions from the paper's 91-year-old founder Eugenio Scalfari, reports Britain's The Independent.

I'm not sure but this seems like biblical interpretation based on what the Pope wants it to say instead of what it actually says. Christ's words are pretty specific on this issue. You believe that He was sent by God to offer salvation to all those who believe in him, was sacrificed as a propitiation for our sins and was raised from the dead. Since an atheist doesn't not believe in God then how can he or she believe that Christ was sent by God?

I believe that the Pope is attempting to offer atheists hope but why would they care to hope for something they deny? Also, wouldn't it be a false hope and isn't that actually a cruel action to take?
Man’s greatness is so obvious that it can even be deduced from his wretchedness, for what is nature in animals we call wretchedness in man, thus recognizing that, if his nature is today like that of the animals, he must have fallen from some better state which was once his own.
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Offline ColonelCarrots

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Re: Pope Francis says atheists can go to heaven
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2016, 08:13:24 PM »
Rom 1:17  For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19  Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23  And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24  Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25  Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26  For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27  And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28  And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29  Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30  Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31  Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32  Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Offline obumazombie

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Re: Pope Francis says atheists can go to heaven
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2016, 08:27:37 PM »
I've always wondered about the people born before the Bible was written or before Christ was born. Were they all sent to perdition or Hell?

What about people that have never heard of Christ, but have lived their life in a Christian way?

The Catholic Church used to teach about purgatory and limbo.
That would be the temporary destination for those who die before being baptized, or died prior to the birth of Jesus, or who never heard about Jesus.
The Church also used to teach that man is very aware of his own shortcomings, and his own imperfections.
If we at some level are ashamed of our transgressions, and are merciful with those who transgress against us and are seeking forgiveness, those people would be shown mercy.
But those who deny a power greater than themselves have set themselves up for disappointment when they meet their demise.
I find it hard to believe the current Pope is turning his back on well founded doctrine.
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Offline Lacarnut

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Re: Pope Francis says atheists can go to heaven
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2016, 12:00:37 AM »
I think the Pope has lost his mind with this stupid ideology. People that deny God and do not pray for the forgiveness of their sins can never reach heaven. 

I also think the Pope should cleanse sexual deviants from within his own house before preaching his progressive social agenda BS.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 12:07:50 AM by Lacarnut »

Offline Big Dog

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Re: Pope Francis says atheists can go to heaven
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2016, 12:13:50 AM »
When I die, I want to go where dogs go.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Pope Francis says atheists can go to heaven
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2016, 01:35:46 AM »
When I die, I want to go where dogs go.
When I die, I want to go where there are no liberals.
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline obumazombie

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Re: Pope Francis says atheists can go to heaven
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2016, 06:35:38 PM »
When I die, I want to go where dogs go.

Clinnochio is most often called a dog more than any other appellation.
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