In the DU "Police is scary!" department...

[dutch508]

99th_Monkey (15,388 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027419429

Anyone else see this coming? "Police Response To San Bernardino Stokes Militarization Fears"


When I was watching the live coverage of San Bernardino, and saw those armored vehicles approaching
that bullet-riddled black SUV on the scene of the shoot-out, it made me go: "hmmm .. THIS must be
what all that military gear and armored tanks are for." Sad to say -- thanks to the NRA, ISIS and their
ilk -- I suspect the military gear is probably here to stay.   

Of course.... no police department in the country has tanks and Barry is taking back all the up armored vehicles as we speak.

randys1 (13,303 posts)
1. Those tank like vehicles closing in ever so slowly on the SUV looked very ominous. Sadly I think the militarization of our police is meant to deal more with civil unrest than these situations. And civil unrest to one person may be fear of others while it may be expression of a right to life for others (like BLM).

randy continues to prove he is the dumbest mutha ****a ever to pretend to be gay, black, and intelligently designed.

Mojorabbit (15,772 posts)
11. I read a DOD report years ago re climate change and they expect mass migration of people and lots of civil unrest. I believe that that is the why. The report read like a doomsday novel and I took notice. I look at Syria and our response to taking in any refuges and wonder if it will be any different when areas start to flood on our coasts and people try to migrate inland.

 

Egnever (16,091 posts)
2. Um no

Walker is reading that all wrong in my opinion.

Maybe it is just me but I am horrified that the police apparently fired more than 350 times at these guys. No it does not make me feel the least bit better that they have all that heavy gear in fact it makes me feel worse. I would much rather they trained better with their weapons so that they didn't have to spray lead all over the place to take down two people. It is even worse when they were heavily armored and still had to fire that many times.

ljm2002 (9,097 posts)
6. I watched the live stream...of a local ABC station, from their news helicopter. Honestly I thought they looked ridiculous, inching forward in that special vehicle with an armor shield on the front of it, as if they were going to be facing fire from several armed shooters. Did they really think anyone was still alive in a vehicle that looked like it had at least 100 bullets fired into it? The person speaking from the helicopter said several times that there had been no motion from within the SUV. (He also noticed right away, when they got the body from the back seat, that this one looked like a female -- which was verified later in a presser.)

The first thought that occurred to me watching all this was, okay, they will use this to justify their use of armored vehicles.

****ing idiot.

ljm2002 (9,097 posts)
20. If the SUV had been booby trapped...don't you think that maybe, just maybe, the hundreds of rounds fired into the vehicle, shattering every window in it (except the windshield, which merely had a bunch of bullet holes in it) -- would have set off the booby trap? Or would have caused any ordnance in the vehicle to explode?

Well I'm no expert, and I do not object to law enforcement using caution. But that specialized armored vehicle creeping forward just looked silly to me.

They do have robots nowadays to deal with bombs, so humans are not put at risk. Maybe they should have brought one of those along with the armored vehicles.

Super genius DUmp monkiez knowz explosives and tactics better than police.

951-Riverside (6,961 posts)
8. Gun humpers want citizens to have unfettered access to military grade weapons so...The police need military grade armor and gear to protect themselves against that. Sorry gun humpers but you can't decry militarized police while stockpiling military weapons.

boston bean (25,266 posts)
10. You can thank the gun fetishists for this. making us all just a little less free every week.

Somehow the support of the 2nd Amendment makes the US a little less free. 

librechik (27,105 posts)
15. shoot to kill, not detain and arrest that is the universal philosophy nowadays. That's ok in war, but NOT in our neighborhoods in "the homeland"

OMG.

Agnosticsherbet (6,825 posts)
17. The alternativ is to have the military handle the increasing number of heavily armed and armored killers bent on causing mass casualties to create political change or because they are nuckin futs.

We live in a nation where almost any weapon short of a tank is available. The police must arm for the conflict they find themselves in.

Of course- we can't deploy the military in the US. It's that Constitutional thing again.

[Fourwinds]

These people are so damped scatterbrained. One minute they are wanting cops to take private firearms by force. The next they wet their pants at the thought of police militarization. A group of people this stupid should be considered subhuman at best.

[67 Rover]

951-Riverside (6,961 posts)
8. Gun humpers want citizens to have unfettered access to military grade weapons so...The police need military grade armor and gear to protect themselves against that. Sorry gun humpers but you can't decry militarized police while stockpiling military weapons.

My Barrett .50 would have this one a quivering mass of goo by just looking at it.

DPMS and S&W .223 is not "military grade"

[Carl]

Mojorabbit (15,772 posts)
11. I read a DOD report years ago re climate change and they expect mass migration of people and lots of civil unrest. I believe that that is the why. The report read like a doomsday novel and I took notice. I look at Syria and our response to taking in any refuges and wonder if it will be any different when areas start to flood on our coasts and people try to migrate inland.

So another benefit of gloBULL warming will be to force you urban rats out into the open trying to steal food.
There is a field named for that.

[Patriot Guard Rider]

It might just be me, but I sense from that thread the DUmmies are feeling some sort of sympathy for the terrorists to be so severely outgunned they never had a chance in the fight.

Like I said, it might just be me.

[Ptarmigan]

If DUmmies were not criminals they would not be scared of police. Than again logic is what DUmmies lack. 

Egnever (16,091 posts)
2. Um no

Walker is reading that all wrong in my opinion.

Maybe it is just me but I am horrified that the police apparently fired more than 350 times at these guys. No it does not make me feel the least bit better that they have all that heavy gear in fact it makes me feel worse. I would much rather they trained better with their weapons so that they didn't have to spray lead all over the place to take down two people. It is even worse when they were heavily armored and still had to fire that many times.

If the terrorists have not been shooting at the police.

Agnosticsherbet (6,825 posts)
17. The alternativ is to have the military handle the increasing number of heavily armed and armored killers bent on causing mass casualties to create political change or because they are nuckin futs.

We live in a nation where almost any weapon short of a tank is available. The police must arm for the conflict they find themselves in.

Posse Comitatus

18 U.S. Code § 1385 - Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatus
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1385

Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

(Added Aug. 10, 1956, ch. 1041, § 18(a), 70A Stat. 626; amended Pub. L. 86–70, § 17(d), June 25, 1959, 73 Stat. 144; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(L), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

[SVPete]

951-Riverside (6,961 posts)
8. Gun humpers want citizens to have unfettered access to military grade weapons so...The police need military grade armor and gear to protect themselves against that. Sorry gun humpers but you can't decry militarized police while stockpiling military weapons.

If 951R hasn't already pointed it out, (s)he lives not too far from San Bernardino. Not that that is necessarily significant.

His/her premise. "Gun humpers want citizens to have unfettered access to military grade weapons ...: is false, even without the obligatory denigrating epithet. So that pretty much takes care of what ever "reasoning" based on the premise.

Egnever (16,091 posts)
2. ...

Maybe it is just me but I am horrified that the police apparently fired more than 350 times at these guys. No it does not make me feel the least bit better that they have all that heavy gear in fact it makes me feel worse. I would much rather they trained better with their weapons so that they didn't have to spray lead all over the place to take down two people. It is even worse when they were heavily armored and still had to fire that many times.

1. As for, "It is even worse when they were heavily armored and still had to fire that many times," police have such weapons and equipment and use overwhelming force so that incidents like this one are not "fair fights". When the law is being enforced, the criminals should be dealt with using overwhelming force. Otherwise, unnecessary police and civilian casualties and property damage will occur.

2. These killers had just slaughtered more than a dozen people and wounded many more. These killers had been tossing pipe bombs from their car while being chased, if the news reports were correct. Using armored vehicles to approach and hem them in was exactly what should have been done.

3.The killers were also understood to be wearing some sort of body armor. Lots of police officers shooting them from multiple angles using lots of bullets was exactly what should have been done. It's called making sure the killers can do no further harm. And by the way, the police didn't, "... spray lead all over the place ...". They hit the killers and their vehicle.

4. As for, "I would much rather they trained better with their weapons ...," what in Hades do you know about proper tactics and training? Seems to me SBPD found the killers and dealt with them almost amazingly swiftly and decisively. Egnever, perversely and moronically, seems to resent that swiftness and decisiveness!

[Bad Dog]

Their assumption that the armored vehicles were involved in the chase is retardant.  I guess they missed the pictures of the lead police car riddled with bullet holes and the report of the wounded officer.  Finally, it never occurs to them that the muzzies were happily spraying the neighborhood with fire and the police quickly brought it to an end with plenty of well aimed fire.

[Big Dog]

It might just be me, but I sense from that thread the DUmmies are feeling some sort of sympathy for the terrorists to be so severely outgunned they never had a chance in the fight.

Like I said, it might just be me.

No, it's not just you.

[SVPete]

It might just be me, but I sense from that thread the DUmmies are feeling some sort of sympathy for the terrorists to be so severely outgunned they never had a chance in the fight.

Like I said, it might just be me.

As my post above suggests, it's not just you. Almost anytime Libs & Progs whine about "excessive force" or some similar term, what they really mean is that the US military or police should have scaled their forces and weapons to make the incident a "fair fight", in which the criminals or enemy had a equal chance of killing the US military or police personnel and surviving.

Personally, I prefer the likes of US-hating terrorists' and violent criminals' bodies being so riddled with bullets as to be shredded to pieces to US military or police funerals.

[Patriot Guard Rider]

As my post above suggests, it's not just you. Almost anytime Libs & Progs whine about "excessive force" or some similar term, what they really mean is that the US military or police should have scaled their forces and weapons to make the incident a "fair fight", in which the criminals or enemy had a equal chance of killing the US military or police personnel and surviving.

Personally, I prefer the likes of US-hating terrorists' and violent criminals' bodies being so riddled with bullets as to be shredded to pieces to US military or police funerals.

It just sickens me that these two animals callously, and in cold blood, murdered 14 people (who had accepted him and his religion and had showed how much they cared by giving him a baby shower) simply because. Then along come the DUmmies who feel sympathy for the murderers because they were outgunned and blown away for THEIR crime of shooting 14. Doesn't matter these two animals were throwing pipe bombs (?) out of their car at the pursuing police and managed to fire 76 rounds at them while they were being chased. 350 rounds or so fired from the cops. Too bad they didn't fire 1500 and pull the bodies out in pieces.

Liberals disgust me.

[Mr Mannn]

DU logic:
Police are scary
Police kill blacks
Only police should have guns

[Patriot Guard Rider]

DU logic:
Police are scary
Police kill blacks
Only police should have guns

Hammer. Nail. Head. That's EXACTLY their thinking.

[miskie]

So another benefit of gloBULL warming will be to force you urban rats out into the open trying to steal food.
There is a field named for that.

Sure - I mean look at the middle east, Egypt, Northern Africa, India - it was all green meadows and pastures before The Industrial Revolution.

Now look at it all - overpopulated desert. All because of us cracka-ass honkeys and fossil fuels.   

DUmbass theory is dumbass..

[RayRaytheSBS]

Egnever (16,091 posts)
2. ...

Maybe it is just me but I am horrified that the police apparently fired more than 350 times at these guys. No it does not make me feel the least bit better that they have all that heavy gear in fact it makes me feel worse. I would much rather they trained better with their weapons so that they didn't have to spray lead all over the place to take down two people. It is even worse when they were heavily armored and still had to fire that many times.

Look DUche, you know NOTHING about firearms, how to defeat an insurgent enemy, or what excessive force is when compared to the lives saved. Sit in the corner and color, DUche. If I need someone to tell me how to extort money out of SSDI, or what drugs will get you highest, the quickest, I will call for you. Until then, sit the @#$! down, and shut the @#$! UP! 

[txradioguy]

There is enough weaponized stupidity in that thread to guarantee MAD 3 times over.

[txradioguy]

It might just be me, but I sense from that thread the DUmmies are feeling some sort of sympathy for the terrorists to be so severely outgunned they never had a chance in the fight.

Like I said, it might just be me.

No its not just you. The DUmmies do sympathize with the terrorists on many things...one of them being the "Fairness" of who is armed with what weapons.

[Ptarmigan]

No its not just you. The DUmmies do sympathize with the terrorists on many things...one of them being the "Fairness" of who is armed with what weapons.

The terrorists were going to kill more people. The cops got them.

[Skul]

Seems like just a couple of years ago, or so.
The DUmp was crying about disproportionate response
in regards to the evil Jooooos pounding the crap out of Gaza
or southern Lebanon.
Seems the peaceful muzzies wouldn't  stop sending rockets.

[txradioguy]

ljm2002 (9,097 posts)
6. I watched the live stream...of a local ABC station, from their news helicopter. Honestly I thought they looked ridiculous, inching forward in that special vehicle with an armor shield on the front of it, as if they were going to be facing fire from several armed shooters. Did they really think anyone was still alive in a vehicle that looked like it had at least 100 bullets fired into it? The person speaking from the helicopter said several times that there had been no motion from within the SUV. (He also noticed right away, when they got the body from the back seat, that this one looked like a female -- which was verified later in a presser.)

Ok lurking DUmmies take notes and show them to this moron and a couple others when you scurry back to the DUmp.

Those two armored vehicles you think are so silly are life savers...to the cops and to the public at large.  They serve three purposes.

1) Block the vehicle in on the off chance the shooters were playing possum and tried to drive off again.

2) The shields on the from absorb bullets from the shooters weapons in the event they were not dead and trying to draw the cops in to kill them.

3) It was already known to law enforcement that the shooters had explosives and those armored vehicles...in addition to absorbing bullets would help to contain the blast in the off chance one of the dozen or so pipe bombs in the SUV went off of if the entire Ford Explorer had been rigged as a VBED.


In any case they are all there to prevent any further loss of life.  Had then not been there and civilians had died you'd be bitching about "where was the police armored vehicles to prevent this crap" so you're not gonna be happy either way this played out.

As for the amount of rounds fired.  Terrorists and bad guys in general like to use SUV's because of the amount of steel in them.  Steel and two rows of rear seating are great at absorbing the energy of a round being fired at you meaning you have a better chance of returning fire and surviving.  The terrorists had 1200 rounds on them and were prepared to use all of them.

You think that was a lot of rounds fired by the police...good thing you've never seen AAR photos from attempted vehicle borne attacks in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The first thought that occurred to me watching all this was, okay, they will use this to justify their use of armored vehicles.

The vehicles save lives plain and simple.  Gone are the days when a cops service revolver and a shotgun were all that was needed to take down the bad guys.

The bad guys have upped the ante and all the police are doing is trying to even the odds.

What's disgusting is that you're more worried about the fairness of the fight than whether the bad guys are stopped.

[SVPete]

There is enough weaponized stupidity in that thread to guarantee MAD 3 times over.

Yeppers, blame-the-police-first-last-and-always weapons-grade STOOOOPID. Wish DU-folk would move on to the MAD part ... I'd be satisfied if they only did it once. How their bodies can contain such malignity without spontaneously combusting or exploding is a mystery to me.