Rubio's comment about welders came directly from the Koch pac

[Texacon]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027334246

Star Member yardwork (39,139 posts)

Rubio's comment about welders came directly from the Koch pac.
   
Last night, Rubio said that welders make more than philosophy majors. Big applause. The statement is demonstrably false, as noted by the Washington Post this morning. The median and top wage of welders is lower than median and top wages for liberal arts college graduates, and philosophy professors make a lot more than welders.

But that's not what caught my attention.

The governor of North Carolina - elected with lots of $$$$ from Koch networks, said the exact same thing right after he was elected. He said that welders are better than philosophers.

Governor McCrory and his team are doing the best they can to dismantle North Carolina's wonderful state university system. Their approach is to replace institutions of higher education with a network of technical schools that train people to do low-wage tasks. No more pesky college professors asking awkward questions.

Rubio used the same words last night. Where did he get the language?

Someone gets it;

Ms. Yertle (228 posts)

3. Except that
 
tenure-track college teaching jobs are rare as hen's teeth. Much more likely is that someone with a philosophy major will get some adjunct lecturer job that pays peanuts.

I know a couple of philosophy grads. One is a barista, and the other works in a factory. Thousands of dollars in debt, and nothing much to show for it.

There is nothing wrong with blue collar jobs, or vocational education. The fact is, no matter how much automation there is we will always need welders, auto mechanics, and plumbers. 

Someone else, does not;

yardwork (39,139 posts)

8. Washington Post fact checker cites data.
 
Median salary for welders is $37,420. Average first year salary for philosophy majors is $42,200. Even bigger disparities in the top ten percent salaries for the two.

I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with welders. But it's a lie that philosophy majors make less.

Now the above poster, who gets it, told some truth.  The one who does NOT get it is leaving some stuff out.  I know because this is my trade that I moved back into after being out of it for 20 years.

A welder who makes $37k/year is going to be a shop type welder.  They don't make a lot.  A construction welder, and there are many (and we need a LOT more in the coming years) makes a hell of a lot more than that.  Take my company for instance.  We START welders at $78,000/year.  They obviously go up from there and in the next few years I expect to see that wage increase by at least 20%.

So, if there are any DUmmies reading this, please by all means, come educate me on what a philosophy major makes vs a welder.  It looks to me like construction welders start at a MUCH higher salary than you are claiming for your precious philosophy major.

KC

[Texacon]

Oh, and I don't know this to be fact but I'm going to throw it out there;

I'll bet any welder that has gone to trade school rather than learning in the field has a lower debt for their schooling than the philosophy major.

Just a thought.

KC

[franksolich]

Well, if what people were paid based upon the good they do society (providing a good or a service that enhances life for humanity), welders need to make a damned lot more than they do, and philosophy graduates should go at about, oh, a dime a dozen.

[Patriot Guard Rider]

Take my company for instance.  We START welders at $78,000/year.

And I'd apply for that provided I can work in an air-conditioned office.

[Texacon]

And I'd apply for that provided I can work in an air-conditioned office.

LOL yeah, it doesn't quite work like that, but then again, I think you know that.

KC

[Patriot Guard Rider]

LOL yeah, it doesn't quite work like that, but then again, I think you know that.

KC

That hurts my feelings. I'm going to go to my safe space now and put on calming music and color for a while.

I"m also going to complain to franksolich you're mean.

So there

[Texacon]

That hurts my feelings. I'm going to go to my safe space now and put on calming music and color for a while.

I"m also going to complain to franksolich you're mean.

So there

Trigger warning!!!  Trigger WARNING!!!

 

KC

[DumbAss Tanker]

yardwork (39,139 posts)

8. Washington Post fact checker cites data.
 
Median salary for welders is $37,420. Average first year salary for philosophy majors is $42,200. Even bigger disparities in the top ten percent salaries for the two.

I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with welders. But it's a lie that philosophy majors make less.

...Except that the welders can actually get the jobs those stats are based on (And 'Salary' usually isn't involved, wages with O/T are), while the philosophy majors can't (And those jobs are salaried, with all sorts of extracurricular requirements and NO O/T).

[Chris_]

Average first year salary for philosophy majors is $42,200.

There must be some good tippers at the Red Lobster.

[RayRaytheSBS]

That hurts my feelings. I'm going to go to my safe space now and put on calming music and color for a while.

I"m also going to complain to franksolich you're mean.

So there

Microaggression! MICROAGRESSION! STOP SHOVING YOUR WHITE PRIVILEGE IN MY FACE! 

[diesel driver]

I'll pick a welder over a "philosophy major" any day.

A welder actually BUILDS something I can/do use on a daily basis...

[Bad Dog]

Down here in TX, the oil patch and other construction companies are crying for welders.  Although, I must admit, Mickey D's and Whataburger are having trouble filling shifts too. I have it on good authority philosophy majors are ideal for the parking lot poopy diaper & vomit patrol.

I figured the DUmmies would attack that comment by Rubio as that was my only "Kazingggg" moment front last nights debate.

[67 Rover]

So both have a starting salary less than someone collecting SSDI, WIC, Obamaphones, etc?

[jukin]

Average first year salary for philosophy majors is $42,200.

NO WAY IN HELL!!

Starting out, engineers are getting $45-48K/yr. What does a philosophy major do? Really, who would hire a person with a BA in philosophy, sociology, womens studies, black studies,....?

I can only think of service jobs, NGOs, or government jobs that need no special skills.

[Ralph Wiggum]

NO WAY IN HELL!!

Starting out, engineers are getting $45-48K/yr. What does a philosophy major do? Really, who would hire a person with a BA in philosophy, sociology, womens studies, black studies,....?

I can only think of service jobs, NGOs, or government jobs that need no special skills.

And yet your garden variety burger flipper wants $15 an hour.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Seriously, I have no idea where they even found a job for a first-year position requiring only a bachelor's degree in philosophy to make that comparison.  I can't think of any position for which a Bachelor's is a qualifying requirement, sufficient by itself and competitive.  Aside from possibly a handful of super-rich private high schools that actually have a philosophy teacher on faculty (Assuming such a position wouldn't be snapped up by competitors with graduate degrees), you would need a PhD and a Hell of a CV to even get a serious look in collegiate academia, which is the only place I can see where a degree in that particular field would be a hard and fast requirement.   

[Patriot Guard Rider]

Microaggression! MICROAGRESSION! STOP SHOVING YOUR WHITE PRIVILEGE IN MY FACE! 

It's not white privilege. It's Slovak-Scots Irish privilege. NOW I'm a minority like what brave(whatshernameis).

Why do you hate minorities?

So there.   

[FlaGator]

I am willing to bet that the avg salary of philosophy majors are for those who got jobs in their field of study which is I think is a relatively small number of the total graduates. Incidentally most philosophy majors that I know are priests or pastors.

[Chris_]

Fresh out of school with a "philosophy" degree, you'd be lucky to get a job working for the state as a social worker.  It pays around $25k.

[Texacon]

Ok, so think about this for just a moment;

Star Member Ghost in the Machine (14,417 posts)

20. I can see where a UNION Journeyman Welder might make more,

but he is also WORKING MORE. My dad was a Union Pipefitter/Welder, and I can remember him working 7/12's at Turkey Point Nuclear Plant at $23/hr straight time, time and a half over 40 hours, double time on Sundays & triple time on holidays. He's leaving next week to go back to Florida for the Annual Dance, and to receive his 60 Year pin. 

So here's a guy claiming that a UNION journeyman welder might make more, got it?

Here he is talking about his dad who I would suppose has been out of the business for at least 20 years, so in 1995 he was making $23/hour.  Or roughly $46k/year.  20 years ago.  And the uninformed up thread were saying that the MEDIAN income of a welder was $37k/year.  Think about that.

When I was welding UNION in Hawaii in 1991 (local #204 boilermakers) I was making over $30/hour, time and a half over 8 hours, double over 10 hours, triple on holidays.  We were working 5/10's and sometimes 6/10's.  Since I was working union and local I didn't get any subsistence pay.

Now, our NON UNION welders are paid $26/hour starting and can go as high as $36/hour PLUS $100/day subsistence.  Over 400 miles from home and you get 7 days subsistence. 

Our guys are always working 5/10's so they get 10 hours of overtime every week.  So, a starting welder is making; $1,930.00/week x 52 weeks = $100,360.00/year. 

When I stated $78k above I was using straight time only.  Out of that $100k they will have some living expenses on the road.  This is for a brand new welder who can pass x-ray, UT, magnaflux, dye tests, etc., but they don't know our field.  Get some experience and the pay goes up and can go up quickly if you're a good, hard worker, and fast learner.

Work your way to pusher (asst. foreman) or foreman and you make a lot more, plus bonuses, truck allowances, computer allowances ...

Ok DUmmies, bring your arguments over here.  Let's talk business.  Still think these guys are uneducated?  Still think they make less than some (or even most) of the college educated?  Come tell me what you earn with your degree.

KC

KC

[Chris_]

Damn.  I'm in the wrong field.

[Texacon]

And before anyone says my math doesn't add up;

$26/hour x 40 hours = $1,040 + $39/hour x 10 = $390 + $500/week subsistence pay.

$1040 + $390 + 500 = $1,930/week.

I know my boy is enjoying his paycheck every week since he ETS'd at the first part of September.

KC

[67 Rover]

And yet your garden variety burger flipper wants $15 an hour.

 

[DLR Pyro]

I'll pick a welder over a "philosophy major" any day.

A welder actually BUILDS something I can/do use on a daily basis...

yep.  Show me any bridge, building or great ocean going ship that a philosopher ever constructed.

[I_B_Perky]

yardwork (39,139 posts)

8. Washington Post fact checker cites data.
 
Median salary for welders is $37,420. Average first year salary for philosophy majors is $42,200. Even bigger disparities in the top ten percent salaries for the two.

I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with welders. But it's a lie that philosophy majors make less.

Look dummie... this is the same fact checking site that said Cruz' statement about x many people not being in the workforce was false. Then the Cruz campaign sent them an email and said Cruz statistics came from... the federal government!  The *cough* fact checkers *cough* then went on to spin it so they looked correct.

Fact checking should have no spin whatsoever. They should have stated that according to the federal government he was correct.  Dems do not face this kind of scrutiny unless something is such a blatant lie that they cannot spin it.

Fact checking is done by the same people that caused the fact checking to be created... liberal dems in the MSM.