If you embrace socialism....

[CC27]

hill2016 (319 posts)

If you embrace socialism you should embrace both the social safety net as well as the high taxes [View all]

Hence I would love to see Bernie embrace both aspects when he points to Denmark. I would love for him to explain this during his great speech on socialism: "under socialism, taxes are going to go up on everybody to pay for a robust social safety net".

Only then can we have a fair debate on policies and issues, which his supporters have been lording over others for months. But far they have been talking about the social benefits without the costs part. It's great to promise free health care, free parental leave, free state college tuition and room & board, expanded social security, extinguishing of student loans, etc, and bash Clinton for not promising all this. But what's the plan to pay? I agree with Clinton that we need a progressive who gets things done (not make promises that can't be funded). It's very unfair to her because she's realistic that she doesn't promise all this benefits when she knows it's not going to get funded. Why didn't Vermont fund single payer? Why was Obama forced to drop his plan to tax college 529 plans to fund free community college for all? These are the perfect examples of when dreams meet reality.

Hence I'm very excited that he's finally starting to talk about the costs part. This shows that finally he is getting serious about thinking of how to pay. His supporters should be as well. However I'm puzzled why many of his supporters are running away from a miserly 0.2% increase in the payroll tax to fund parental leave.

Let's put it to a fair debate on both the costs and the benefits. And let the people decide if they want to pay the costs for the benefits.


Here's the tax rates for Denmark
https://www.cfe-eutax.org/taxation/personal-income-tax/denmark

1 USD is about 6.5 DKK.

0%: Up to 41 000 DKK
37.48%: 41 001 – 279 800
43.48%: 279 801 – 335 800
59%: 335 801 and over

Cheese Sandwich (3,218 posts)
1. People who don't have any money shouldn't have to pay taxes. I'm a socialist.

Socialism doesn't have anything to do with taxes.

Socialism is democratic control of resources to meet human needs, instead of for capitalist profit.

Kalidurga (8,736 posts)
88. I doubt that taxes in that bracket will ever go that high so it's not even a debatable point.

I doubt he would even use their model even if he adopts what the government pays for. Most what is proposed can be paid for by reducing military spending and that is on the table. If at some point far far far into the future we have as robust a middle class as most of Europe, then we can talk about raising taxes on the middle class then. But, for now let's have some breathing room first.

Star Member cyberswede (22,802 posts)
102. The right has successfully villified taxes to the point where Americans are averse to paying them.

But if we pay high taxes and get awesome benefits from them, that's actually a good thing.

Wages need to be higher, too. Thank the union-busting RW for that, as well.

Fun thread. I like when they yell at each other from mom's basement.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=702698

[Carl]

Response to jonno99 (Reply #2)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 12:21 AM

Kalidurga (8,736 posts)
77. "I would hope though that everyone who is able (even if they have no money) still contribute"

this makes no sense without clarification. If they have no money what do they contribute? Uncompensated labor? Donating at the blood bank? A promissory note that they will pay back what they have gotten in public funds? Money that they don't have?

Yet they wonder why they are called parasites.

[Patriot Guard Rider]

Yet they wonder why they are called parasites.

Yup. Socialism is wonderful and everyone, except me, has to chip in.

[USA4ME]

hill2016

If you embrace socialism you should embrace both the social safety net as well as the high taxes.

You need to also accept that over time (be it immediately, or in 10 years, or in 20 years, or in 50 years, or in 100 years, or.....), that socialism turns into communism and an iron fisted dictatorship. Unless you admit that's the eventual outcome, then we have no reason to talk about it at all.

.

[freedumb2003b]

Capn Sunshine (14,308 posts)
56. For Chrissakes there is plenty of money out there

If you eliminate the Oil company subsidies, cut the Defense Budget by 20% and impose a regular income tax on any church choosing to be political, that's hundreds of billions right there.

Someone should tell Pvt. blowing sunshine up his ass that the ONLY churches that are political are liberal ones -- every Black church (ala rev. wrong) and even the illegal-supporting RCC are front and center.

LOL -- they are pure uninformed idiots.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Social safety net!!! Alert!!!

A buzzword DUmmies do not approve of.

[Skul]

I hear it's working reaĺly good in Greece. Yup.
Let's  do it.

[delilahmused]

Unlike the military, I don't see financing social programs in the Constitution.

Cindie

[zeitgeist]

I ran across this one last night when this was the only reply:

Cheese Sandwich (3,225 posts)
1. People who don't have any money shouldn't have to pay taxes. I'm a socialist.

Socialism doesn't have anything to do with taxes.

Socialism is democratic control of resources to meet human needs, instead of for capitalist profit.

Wher hast nicht die pinka pink wher hast nicht kein geld (or something like that my Deutsch is a bit rusty after fifty odd years).

[98ZJUSMC]

Star Member cyberswede (22,802 posts)
102. The right has successfully villified taxes to the point where Americans are averse to paying them.

  Geezuz H.

Capn Sunshine (14,308 posts)
56. For Chrissakes there is plenty of money out there

If you eliminate the Oil company subsidies, cut the Defense Budget by 20% and impose a regular income tax on any church choosing to be political, that's hundreds of billions right there.

Cheese Sandwich (3,225 posts)
1. People who don't have any money shouldn't have to pay taxes. I'm a socialist Idiot.

Socialism doesn't have anything to do with taxes.

   Impossible to argue with stupid so deadly.
 

[thundley4]

Cheese Sandwich (3,225 posts)
1. People who don't have any money shouldn't have to pay taxes. I'm a socialist.

Socialism doesn't have anything to do with taxes.

Socialism is democratic control of resources to meet human needs, instead of for capitalist profit.

Sounds more like communism.

[freedumb2003b]

Cheese Sandwich (3,225 posts)
1. People who don't have any money shouldn't have to pay taxes. I'm a socialist.

Socialism doesn't have anything to do with taxes.

Socialism is democratic control of resources to meet human needs, instead of for capitalist profit.

Sounds more like communism.

Why make money?  Sleep in, get drunk on State-supplied booze, rinse, repeat.

Oh wait, that IS the Dummie Life!

[jukin]

1. People who don't have any money shouldn't have to pay taxes. I'm a socialist.

I'm broke and lazy. Take care of me in the custom I think I should be taken care of.

Another trait of high IQ people is they are broke.

Amazingly high IQ people sure have a lot in common with people in the 70-75 IQ point range.  Could it be I'm confused about what a high IQ person is because of the DUchebag's definition(s)?

[docstew]

If you embrace socialism, you MUST embrace the idea that some small group of people you will never meet know how to live your life better than you ever will, and that their decisions are always in your best interests.

You must have also never read Animal Farm...

[Karin]

Response to frylock (Reply #46)

Mon Oct 19, 2015, 10:12 PM

Kang Colby (462 posts)
50. It's hard to say what a man who won't take...

15 seconds to comb his hair in the morning is thinking. Hillary also had to remind him that the United States "isn't Denmark"...so there is that.

 

I thought the OP raised a perfectly legitimate question.  What are the costs that we will ask others to pay?

hill2016 (323 posts)
31. hm...

lots of people complain about their property taxes which are used to fund K-12.

Can you imagine if you tell them now they have to pay for college for everyone as well.

Ugh.  Especially moonbatty college, where the special snowflakes go to their safe spaces and study Marxist Queer Theory.  Not on my ****ing dime!

PoliticAverse (13,615 posts)
58. You forgot the sales tax (vat) rate in Denmark 25%. n/t

 

[Delmar]

Yup. Socialism is wonderful and everyone, except me, has to chip in.

Response to SunSeeker (Reply #83)Tue Oct 20, 2015, 12:41 AM
Cheese Sandwich (3,257 posts)
85. I don't really know. All I know is rich people should pay more and poor people should pay less.

A few years ago a book came out called All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten, the simplemindedness of this post kind of reminded me of that except they wouldn't teach kids something like that in kindergarten, or maybe now they do.

[txradioguy]

Star Member cyberswede (22,802 posts)
102. The right has successfully villified taxes to the point where Americans are averse to paying them.

We went to war with England in part because of a 2 cent increase in the taxes on a postage stamp.

"Taxiation without representation"...does that ring a bell in your pointy head?

If we'd go to war over 2 cents...why should we just roll over when the Imperial Government wants half of every dollar I make...or in the case of Sanders...only allow me to keep one thin dime out of every dollar I make?

[DumbAss Tanker]

I ran across this one last night when this was the only reply:

Wher hast nicht die pinka pink wher hast nicht kein geld (or something like that my Deutsch is a bit rusty after fifty odd years).


I remember Kohl's Finance Minister singing a couple of bars of that to the press to shut them up during a presser back in the mid-90s, during some crisis about pensions and the German 'Social state.'  I believe it goes like:

Wer soll das bezahlen,
Wer hat das bestellt?
Wer hat so viel pinka-pinka
In die ganze Welt?

(Roughly-
'Who shall pay the tab,
Who has ordered that?
Who has so much jingle-jangle
In the whole darn world?')

[zeitgeist]

I ran across this one last night when this was the only reply:

Wher hast nicht die pinka pink wher hast nicht kein geld (or something like that my Deutsch is a bit rusty after fifty odd years).


I remember Kohl's Finance Minister singing a couple of bars of that to the press to shut them up during a presser back in the mid-90s, during some crisis about pensions and the German 'Social state.'  I believe it goes like:

Wer soll das bezahlen,
Wer hat das bestellt?
Wer hat so viel pinka-pinka
In die ganze Welt?

(Roughly-
'Who shall pay the tab,
Who has ordered that?
Who has so much jingle-jangle
In the whole darn world?')

Sounds about right DAT, "if you don't even have pocket change you have no money or something like that".   I think it came from an old drinking song but not sure why I even remember that anymore. 

[DumbAss Tanker]

Yeah, it's from a folk song, without looking it up as best I recall it's really about the wreck of a relationship, a favorite folk song topic in any language...the gist in this case being that nobody asked for the bad thing to happen and there isn't enough money in the world to ever fix it.

[FlaGator]

What DU socialists really mean: "I want to receive everything for free and I don't want to contribute a dime to it."

[BlueStateSaint]

What DU socialists really mean: "I want to receive everything for free and I don't want to contribute a dime to it."

Ain't that the truth!  H5 given.

[Maverick1987]

What DU socialists really mean: "I want to receive I am entitled to everything for free and I don't want to contribute a dime to it."

FIFY