An action oriented response to active shooters

[Mary Ann]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027228453

BarstowCowboy (121 posts)

An action oriented response to active shooters

Today I was driving to go to dinner with my partner and kids, and there was a van in front of me with a 5.56 bumper sticker, you know the kind of sticker that looks like one of those European country ID stickers? My partner wondered out loud at its meaning. From my studies about high powered assault weaponry, I knew that it was referring to the NATO caliber 5.56, which is also the caliber of choice of many American spree killers, including the shooter at Sandy Hook and most recently at Roseberg. Earlier today, I was at a Whole Foods in Tempe and had the pleasure of shopping with a gentleman who decided to leave the house wearing a shirt that said "Range Time is the Best Time" and was adorned with an image of an automatic handgun. He was shopping by himself, so I assume he's a fully functional adult who probably dressed himself this morning, and is most likely aware that one of his brothers in arms decided to kill a bunch of people for no reason just a few days ago, and yet he chose to wear that shirt anyways. I find myself surrounded by such people here in the heart of "The Ammo Belt", sunny red state Arizona, and have for the last 15 years. Something about this most recent shooting is different though, and I honestly felt twinges of genuine panic today at both the grocery store as well as the restaurant. As I type this I'm at a skating rink in Chandler chaperoning a birthday party, but I am not really checked in completely because I find myself looking for telling bulges along people's belt line's, wondering if days from now people will be shaking their heads and wondering out loud at why some idiot decided to shoot up a skating rink in Arizona. Anyone else going through this? I want to do something besides complain, but I feel powerless in light of what (DIDN'T) happen after Sandy Hook. Can anyone think of something short of occupying Congress?

More of the idiotic drama queen nonsense of the left. What I really brought this over for is this fun, fun, fun exchange between Barstow Cowboy and GGJohn, who seems like he'd probably fit in better here than at the DUmp.

BarstowCowboy (121 posts)
16. I was not raised with firearms

I am not comfortable with firearms, so I imagine I sound silly to you, but with urban and suburban living on the rise you probably understand that within a generation or two people who grow up the way you have are going to be oddities. I can understand how a revolver or perhaps a single shot rifle might be handy for a person such as yourself, but you should look at the tradeoff we're all having to make here so that people like you can have the guns you have. Because of the way the 2nd amendment has been interpreted, city folks like me have to go about our business alongside Ramboed out crabgrass commandos who have no legitimate need to be armed, and who occasionally snap and kill people who've done nothing more than left their homes to engage in what should be low risk activities. Now, I can imagine it's very exciting for you to go and shoot an animal and eat it, and I imagine it probably makes you feel rugged and independent to protect your family from predators like an old time frontier man, but look what it's costing the rest of us to protect your "gun tradition". Can you really say it's worth it? Aren't there steaks at the store? Can't you just call animal control and wait it out like we city folks do when there's a wild dog on the loose?

GGJohn (6,077 posts)
18. Ok, let me answer you point by point.

1.
I am not comfortable with firearms, so I imagine I sound silly to you, but with urban and suburban living on the rise you probably understand that within a generation or two people who grow up the way you have are going to be in the minority


No, I don't think it's silly, it's your opinon which you're entitled to.
I highly doubt that within a generation or two I will be in the minority, but, again, that's my opinion, you and I won't be around to see if you or I are correct.

2.
I can understand how a revolver or perhaps a single shot rifle might be handy for a person such as yourself, but you should look at the tradeoff we're all having to make here so that people like you can have the guns you have


I have revolvers along with semi auto handguns, I'm quite comfortable with owning them, and I enjoy target shooting with them.
A single shot rifle is impractical for me, when I have to shoot at a coyote, bobcat attacking my livestock, it often takes more than 1 shot to kill it, so I'll keep my AR-15 for varmints.

3.
Because of the way the 2nd amendment has been interpreted, city folks like me have to go about our business alongside Ramboed out crabgrass commandos who have no legitimate need to be armed, and who occasionally snap and kill people who've done nothing more than left their homes to engage in what should be low risk activities.


The SCOTUS has ruled in Heller v DC that the 2A is an individual right not connected to militia service, that's the law of the land now.
And who gets to decide who has a "legitimate need" to be armed?
Very few people snap and go on a shooting spree, there are almost always signs of someone with erratic behavior.

4.
Now, I can imagine it's very exciting for you to go and shoot an animal and eat it, and I imagine it probably makes you feel rugged and independent to protect your family from predators like an old time frontier man, but look what it's costing the rest of us to protect your "gun tradition".


No, it's not exciting for me or my wife to go and shoot our food, it's just the way it is, for us, it's a choice to eat healthier.
It doesn't make me feel rugged or independent, it makes me feel fortunate that I can provide health, wholesome meat to my family and those that are less fortunate than us.
What is my right to own firearms costing the rest of you? My firearms will never, god willing, harm another human being.

5.
Can you really say it's worth it? Aren't there steaks at the store? Can't you just call animal control and wait it out like we city folks do when there's a wild dog on the loose?


Yes, I can say it's really worth it. Have you ever seen the horrible conditions of factory farms that animals live in to supply most of the markets with your steaks? Hint: google factory farms for an idea of how those animals live.
Wait for an animal control officer for a predator attacking our livestock? Are you serious? What, are we supposed to tell the predator to stop and wait for an animal control officer to stop them?
It would take, at minimum, at least 60 minutes for a Sheriff's Deputy to arrive, if they did at all.
Nope, our here in the country, we're expected to defend our livestock ourselves.
I can tell by your questions that you really are a city person, you've obviously never lived in the country.

BarstowCowboy (121 posts)
20. One good point by point deserves another

No, I don't think it's silly, it's your opinion which you're entitled to.
I highly doubt that within a generation or two I will be in the minority, but, again, that's my opinion, you and I won't be around to see if you or I are correct.


Statistically speaking rural people have been in the minority since the 1920 census, but there are still about 1 in 5 Americans living in what's classified as rural areas.

http://www.allcountries.org/uscensus/37_urban_and_rural_population_and_by.html

This shows the trend line for rural living. Every census since 1790 has shown a decrease in the number of rural residents. Of course not all of this is due to rural people saying,"HOO DOGGY, they got dancin' girls and a picture show Dotty, let's git on in to dat der city now!" A lot of it has to do with the way the census now classifies an area as urban versus rural, but still, people are coming to live closer and closer to one another, which rules out keeping livestock, and blasting away at varmints and so on.

And who gets to decide who has a "legitimate need" to be armed?
Very few people snap and go on a shooting spree, there are almost always signs of someone with erratic behavior.


I can't argue with you, uh, yes, very few people do go on shooting sprees. Isn't it kind of a drag though, when they do go on shooting sprees? It's hardly comforting, in the aftermath of a shooting spree, to tell one of the family members of the victim of a shooting spree to, you know, buck up, because after all, not that many people go on shooting sprees, right? But, maybe you're right, there really aren't that many people going on shooting sprees, and usually they act erratic first, so I'll just take solace in all the people who DON'T go on shooting sprees, and whenever I see an erratic person I'll just whip out MY gun and take cover, yeah, that's a great idea.

No, it's not exciting for me or my wife to go and shoot our food, it's just the way it is, for us, it's a choice to eat healthier.
It doesn't make me feel rugged or independent, it makes me feel fortunate that I can provide health, wholesome meat to my family and those that are less fortunate than us.
What is my right to own firearms costing the rest of you? My firearms will never, god willing, harm another human being.


So, you get ALL you food from hunting? You live so far from the store that you're unable to get meat any other way? I've seen plenty of documentaries on factory farms, and like I said, I was at Whole Foods today, getting the good meat, not the crap meat they sell at Fry's. Somehow I was able to do it without a gun. Imagine that.

I didn't say that YOUR guns were costing the rest of us anything. As you astutely observed, most people don't go on shooting sprees. What I meant when I said what I said (in other words, in other words) is that the policy of letting just about anyone who wants a gun to have a gun means that we have shootings.

Murders.

Unjustifiable homicides.

Spree killings.

One offs here and there.

Accidental discharges.

Suicides that are FAR more successful than those attempted by other means.

Armed robberies.

Drive-bys.

Political assassinations.

Hunting accidents even sometimes, even with people like you, who are "raised with guns" and "well trained" and all that. Hell, even Dick Cheney himself messes up sometimes...

My point is that I don't value your ability to run off varmints so highly that I wouldn't gladly sacrifice it in exchange for a few less shootings.

tell the predator to stop and wait for an animal control officer to stop them?
It would take, at minimum, at least 60 minutes for a Sheriff's Deputy to arrive, if they did at all.
Nope, our here in the country, we're expected to defend our livestock ourselves.
I can tell by your questions that you really are a city person, you've obviously never lived in the country


And you see, this is what I don't think you understand...no one cares about your livestock. At least, not enough to say that the blanket right to bear arms to protect your livestock justifies all the trouble it causes. I don't care if you have cows that pump out strawberry milk...they're not as valuable as the lives of all the people killed by guns, and the sorrow felt when someone dies at the hands of a man with a gun. If one of your cows has to get eaten...I think we'll be okay. Build a better fence, or spray some "varmint be gone" on the cow's ass, or whatever.

You have no idea how pompous you sound when you say that we'll all just have to suck up some more gun violence out here in the city because, well, that's all part and parcel of making sure that you can live out your Green Acres fantasy out there on the range, and hell, if a bunch of (mostly minority males in the 15-24 year old age bracket) city folks die, hell, that's just too bad.

Eagerly awaiting GGJohn's response . . .

[Maverick1987]

There was a time when some semblance of sanity existed at DU. These days, outside of moles (and most trolls), there are no reasoned people at DU.

[tanstaafl]

The brokeback-cowgirlie-man primitive forgot one of the main reason I, for one, have a firearm. That is that my purchase denied that gun to someone else, thus possibly stopping a future killing spree by another Christian hating mooselimb terrorist wannabe.

The weapon is safe in my safe, only being allowed out in the service of mankind, Like thinning the flocks of doves every fall. When was the last time anyone heard of doves circling about the heads of people, trying to peck their eyes out? You welcome. Or stopping the advance of vermin like prairie dogs. When was the last time anyone read a story about a gang of the little buggers chasing down a human and gnawing at their ankles like miniature wolves. Again, You welcome.

And coyotes. Did you know that if you aimed just three inches above the heart-lung kill shot behind the shoulder, you stand a good chance of snapping the predator's spine. Then it will take 1 to 2 hours for the thing to bleed out and perchance experience some the pain it caused while wiping out a sheep herd, denying me a new flannel shirt. You welcome, once again.

No need for applause or accolades. I quietly go about my business, never looking for confrontations, never carrying large amounts of cash and never venturing into known bad areas ruled by the murderous gangsta segment of society.

[BattleHymn]

but I am not really checked in completely because I find myself looking for telling bulges along people's belt line's,

That's not a gun, it's just steve2470.

[Mary Ann]

That's not a gun, it's just steve2470.

OMG! How could I have missed that? 

[tanstaafl]

That's not a gun, it's just steve2470.

Who the heck is steve2470?

Oh, the stevenumbers primitive. God's April fools joke on womankind.

[67 Rover]

BarstowCowboy (121 posts)

An action oriented response to active shooters

Today I was driving to go to dinner with my partner and kids, and there was a van in front of me with a 5.56 bumper sticker, you know the kind of sticker that looks like one of those European country ID stickers? My partner wondered out loud at its meaning. From my studies about high powered assault weaponry, I knew that it was referring to the NATO caliber 5.56, which is also the caliber of choice of many American spree killers, including the shooter at Sandy Hook and most recently at Roseberg. Earlier today, I was at a Whole Foods in Tempe and had the pleasure of shopping with a gentleman who decided to leave the house wearing a shirt that said "Range Time is the Best Time" and was adorned with an image of an automatic handgun. He was shopping by himself, so I assume he's a fully functional adult who probably dressed himself this morning, and is most likely aware that one of his brothers in arms decided to kill a bunch of people for no reason just a few days ago, and yet he chose to wear that shirt anyways. I find myself surrounded by such people here in the heart of "The Ammo Belt", sunny red state Arizona, and have for the last 15 years. Something about this most recent shooting is different though, and I honestly felt twinges of genuine panic today at both the grocery store as well as the restaurant. As I type this I'm at a skating rink in Chandler chaperoning a birthday party, but I am not really checked in completely because I find myself looking for telling bulges along people's belt line's, wondering if days from now people will be shaking their heads and wondering out loud at why some idiot decided to shoot up a skating rink in Arizona. Anyone else going through this? I want to do something besides complain, but I feel powerless in light of what (DIDN'T) happen after Sandy Hook. Can anyone think of something short of occupying Congress?

What is this idiot on about???    Not one clue in his empty head.

[SVPete]

1. BarstowCowboy (121 posts)

2. An action oriented response to active shooters

Today I was driving to go to dinner with my partner and kids, and there was a van in front of me with a 5.56 bumper sticker, you know the kind of sticker that looks like one of those European country ID stickers? My partner wondered out loud at its meaning. 3. From my studies about high powered assault weaponry, I knew that it was referring to the NATO caliber 5.56, which is also the caliber of choice of many American spree killers, including the shooter at Sandy Hook and most recently at 4. Roseberg. Earlier today, I was at a Whole Foods in Tempe and had the pleasure of shopping with a gentleman who decided to leave the house wearing a shirt that said "Range Time is the Best Time" and was adorned with an image of an 5. automatic handgun. He was shopping by himself, so I assume he's a fully functional adult who probably dressed himself this morning, and is most likely aware that one of 6. his brothers in arms decided to kill a bunch of people for no reason just a few days ago, and yet he chose to wear that shirt anyways. I find myself surrounded by such people here in the heart of "The Ammo Belt", sunny red state Arizona, and have for the last 15 years. Something about this most recent shooting is different though, and I honestly felt twinges of genuine panic today at both the grocery store as well as the restaurant. As I type this I'm at a skating rink in Chandler chaperoning a birthday party, but I am not really checked in completely because I find myself looking for telling bulges along people's belt line's, wondering if days from now people will be shaking their heads and wondering out loud at why some idiot decided to shoot up a skating rink in Arizona 7. . Anyone else going through this? I want to do something besides complain, but I feel powerless in light of what (DIDN'T) happen after Sandy Hook. 8. Can anyone think of something short of occupying Congress?

1. The name of the song is "Barstool Cowboy from Old Barstow". Get sober and get it straight!

2. So, what action does (s)he propose as a response?

3. 5.56 is not solely used by the military, and is not the caliber of bullet used by handguns.

4. If you're going to politicize a tragedy for your own political purposes, at least learn how to spell the name of the city!

5. When trying to politicize some one's T-shirt don't don't display your ignorance and stupidity like that!

6. Ummmm, had this law-abiding gun owner and his gun been present at Umpqua Community College that day, he probably would have tried to use his gun to take out the pathetic loser this DU-loser terms his "brother in arms". Rather like that gun owner did a year or two ago who helped prevent a mass shooting at a Portland area mall.

7. In AZ, it's not the ones with belt line bulges who should be feared. It's the dudes whose guns are drawn and firing, trying to kill people. The ones with belt line bulges are the ones this twerp should hope are present, as they are the ones most likely to prevent or cut short the would-be killer's intended massacre!

8. Well, start by repealing all the "gun control" laws whose real purpose and effect is to disarm law-abiding people. And then forbid gun-free zones as attractive to and enabling mass-killer-wannabes.

[JohnnyReb]

I like the part about him and his partners kids...those are someone else's kids brokeback cowboy.....and he has screwed your brains out.

[Big Dog]

What is this idiot on about???    Not one clue in his empty head.

It would be fun to own an automatic handgun.  Impractical for me, but fun.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmrggqzwhFc[/youtube]

That smell is lurking DUmmies shitting themselves on two continents.

[Big Dog]

8. Well, start by repealing all the "gun control" laws whose real purpose and effect is to disarm law-abiding people. And then forbid gun-free zones as attractive to and enabling mass-killer-wannabes.

I would never support restricting a private property owner's right to prohibit firearms on his own property. I absolutely support unrestricted citizen carry on any taxpayer owned property; with the specific exceptions of jails, prisons, and mental hospital lockdown wards.

[98ZJUSMC]

What is this idiot on about???    Not one clue in his empty head.

The .....obvious! ... superiority of the urban metrosexual twink who knows jack shit about anything outside of his two square block existence and is knowledgeable because his TV told him so.

[SVPete]

I would never support restricting a private property owner's right to prohibit firearms on his own property. I absolutely support unrestricted citizen carry on any taxpayer owned property; with the specific exceptions of jails, prisons, and mental hospital lockdown wards.

Point well taken. I should have said to repeal all government-mandated gun-free zones (except in the sort of secured places you mentioned). If theaters or restaurants or whatever business want to endanger their customers and employees (slightly, in reality) by declaring their premises gun-free, that is their right.

[BattleHymn]

I absolutely support unrestricted citizen carry on any taxpayer owned property;

H5 brother

[Patriot Guard Rider]

Point well taken. I should have said to repeal all government-mandated gun-free zones (except in the sort of secured places you mentioned). If theaters or restaurants or whatever business want to endanger their customers and employees (slightly, in reality) by declaring their premises gun-free, that is their right.

And when I come upon a restaurant that has a no firearms sign, I go in, ask to speak to a manager, and I inform them exactly why I won't be spending my money at their fine establishment.

[BattleHymn]

Who the heck is steve2470?

Oh, the stevenumbers primitive. God's April fools joke on womankind.

The numbers are for how often he is erect: 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 0 time off.

[Big Dog]

Point well taken. I should have said to repeal all government-mandated gun-free zones (except in the sort of secured places you mentioned). If theaters or restaurants or whatever business want to endanger their customers and employees (slightly, in reality) by declaring their premises gun-free, that is their right.

I agree with you, and I do as the Patriot Guard Rider does: tell anti-self-defense business owners why I am not spending money in their establishments.

[delilahmused]

Around here animal control is almost nonexistent. Call the sheriff, they'll recommend you take care of it yourself because it could be a very, very long time before they get here.

Cindie

[tanstaafl]

Around here animal control is almost nonexistent. Call the sheriff, they'll recommend you take care of it yourself because it could be a very, very long time before they get here.

Cindie

Sounds to me that your animal control is perfect, not non-existent. What I learned when I was in WY, If in doubt, Shoot, Shovel and Shut Up. If not in doubt, Shoot.

[Maverick1987]

Sounds to me that your animal control is perfect, not non-existent. What I learned when I was in WY, If in doubt, Shoot, Shovel and Shut Up. If not in doubt, Shoot.

In my days there I missed that one somehow.  WY is awesome.

 

[SVPete]

And when I come upon a restaurant that has a no firearms sign, I go in, ask to speak to a manager, and I inform them exactly why I won't be spending my money at their fine establishment.

Works for me! And if some one patronizes the place due to that sign, that works for me, too. I suspect that if people who cared about the sign all commented, the mangler would soon be talking to the owner about how much $$ the policy cost the restaurant, net of those who approve.

OTOH, I suspect not many DU-folk-types would let a sign stating, "We gladly serve concealed-carriers," get between them and a good pizza or burrito or falafel or ...

[SVPete]

I agree with you, and I do as the Patriot Guard Rider does: tell anti-self-defense business owners why I am not spending money in their establishments.

I don't see such signs, but in CA counties' sheriffs have a LOT of discretion in deciding to issue concealed-carry permits. In SF you almost have to be a pol with a "D" after your name. In Santa Clara County, I don't know.

[BlueStateSaint]

It would be fun to own an automatic handgun.  Impractical for me, but fun.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmrggqzwhFc[/youtube]

That smell is lurking DUmmies shitting themselves on two continents.

I'd love to shoot a Glock 18.

[ChuckJ]

CHARLTON COUNTY, Ga. — An intruder was shot dead after police say he attacked two sisters in their own home.

Deputies say two sisters, ages 64 and 75, living in the home had to fight off an intruder on Tuesday night.

They say a man named Jonathan Shellman Green came into the home and attacked the two women, but they fought back. They said one woman grabbed a gun and fired three shots.

http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/news/gbi-investigating-homicide-charlton-county/nnrWG/

The DUmmies wish these two elderly WOMEN did NOT have the means to defend themselves. Now who is waging a war against women?

[Skul]

1. The name of the song is "Barstool Cowboy from Old Barstow". Get sober and get it straight!

2. So, what action does (s)he propose as a response?

3. 5.56 is not solely used by the military, <=True and is not the caliber of bullet used by handguns.
My Remington XP100 would argue about that..10x Burris scope, 1/4in groups at 100m.

4. If you're going to politicize a tragedy for your own political purposes, at least learn how to spell the name of the city!

5. When trying to politicize some one's T-shirt don't don't display your ignorance and stupidity like that!

6. Ummmm, had this law-abiding gun owner and his gun been present at Umpqua Community College that day, he probably would have tried to usfe his gun to take out the pathetic loser this DU-loser terms his "brother in arms". Rather like that gun owner did a year or two ago who helped prevent a mass shooting at a Portland area mall.

7. In AZ, it's not the ones with belt line bulges who should be feared. It's the dudes whose guns are drawn and firing, trying to kill people. The ones with belt line bulges are the ones this twerp should hope are present, as they are the ones most likely to prevent or cut short the would-be killer's intended massacre!

8. Well, start by repealing all the "gun control" laws whose real purpose and effect is to disarm law-abiding people. And then forbid gun-free zones as attractive to and enabling mass-killer-wannabes.

Very nice.