I'm so happy the Pope is here.

[CC27]

Star Member mmonk (49,901 posts)

I'm so happy the Pope is here.


He can smack down the Republican Party, corporatism, the lack of a humane immigration policy, the incarceration complex, and the lack of policies concerning climate change in one visit and make it hard for the right to keep promoting their policies because it will be hard for the media to create another spin.

I'm lost for words.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027195391

[freedumb2003b]

This pope has already been written off by thinking Americans as anti-capitalist borderline commie.

His comments will be nodded to and then (rightfully) ignored.

[USA4ME]

This is not a predominantly Catholic country like some of those in Central and South America, so what he says holds only minimum sway. And that's true even within the Catholic church. How many who call themselves Catholics use unapproved birth control, or have abortions, or participate in and/or approve of homosexuality, all of which are against Catholic doctrine? So why would they pay any attention when it comes to global warming, immigration, prison, or anything else? The answer is that they won't.

And the libs have screamed "Separation of church and state!! Don't listen to those religious people!!" for so long now, and suddenly people are going to listen to the libs when they say "Listen to the Pope!"? I don't think so.

.

[freedumb2003b]

This is not a predominantly Catholic country like some of those in Central and South America, so what he says holds only minimum sway. And that's true even within the Catholic church. How many who call themselves Catholics use unapproved birth control, or have abortions, or participate in and/or approve of homosexuality, all of which are against Catholic doctrine? So why would they pay any attention when it comes to global warming, immigration, prison, or anything else? The answer is that they won't.

Back when I was Catholic, we used to call these kinds of Catholics "cafeteria Catholics."

The other term we used was "Protestants."

[franksolich]

As a Catholic myself, my attitude is, "Well, the Pope's here....."

That's it; his presence has been noted and respected. although I'm not too thrilled that he has to sully himself being nice to Obozo and Moochelle.

But as for all this media attention and "experts" trying to decipher the "meaning" of what he says, well, that's just so much jibber-jabber.

[DLR Pyro]

Star Member mmonk (49,901 posts)

I'm so happy the Pope is here.


He can smack down the Republican Party, corporatism, the lack of a humane immigration policy, the incarceration complex, and the lack of policies concerning climate change in one visit and make it hard for the right to keep promoting their policies because it will be hard for the media to create another spin.

I notice you failed to mention the Pope smacking down the Republicans over the planned parenthood abortion for human parts scandal, or is that a sacred cow you don't want the Pope to weigh in on?

[obumazombie]

The Pope is misinformed on a number of topics.
If he surrounded himself with people who know the truth about these shortcomings, they could inform him.
Or, if he took some time to educate himself about how capitalism is by far the best economic system, or that glow bull warming is nothing more than a swindle, he would change his tune.
Our glow bull warming forum, and economic forums on this site are chock full of fully vetted and referenced information that could set him straight.
But for now, he is a babe in swaddling clothes who has fallen for all the lib propaganda, except for some issues like abortion.

[DumbAss Tanker]

This Pope is going to do more damage to American Catholicism than the Protestants ever dreamed possible.  He's basically disowning the politically-conservative ones, who are a major constituency of the US church.  While the young Populists may think he's cool, it won't get them in the door to stay.  He has great appeal for the Catholic social justice warriors like Catholic Workers' House types (When they're not busy playing the Occupy game), and illegals from points south, but both are already Catholics and bring numbers and needs, but not so much on the constructive effort or finance end.

[FlaGator]

The Pope is misinformed on a number of topics.
If he surrounded himself with people who know the truth about these shortcomings, they could inform him.
Or, if he took some time to educate himself about how capitalism is by far the best economic system, or that glow bull warming is nothing more than a swindle, he would change his tune.
Our glow bull warming forum, and economic forums on this site are chock full of fully vetted and referenced information that could set him straight.
But for now, he is a babe in swaddling clothes who has fallen for all the lib propaganda, except for some issues like abortion.

Not being a Catholic I no reason to defend the Pope, however I think that he views things from a different perspective than Americans as a whole do. He seems to see everything through the lens of helping the poor and he sees the poor not so much as the American poor but the poor in the rest of the world. Face it, the poor in America are rich when  compared to the rest of the world. He also sees how the rich live and all they have and I'm sure he asks himself what harm would it cause the rich to have just one mansion and just one car and use the money to help those who have nothing. When he speaks negatively about capitalism, he seems to have that thought in mind. Why does one earn so much and another has nothing.

Remember, I don't think he has considered American capitalism and how it is practiced here where most of the rich do help the poor by contributing money to causes that reach out to those who need help. When you look at the vast poverty many of the African countries where the rich have propped up their own standard of living with no concern about those who literally have nothing. In that light I feel he does have a point and I tend to be less harsh on his criticism of capitalism.

We look at things here when he speaks. I don't think we take the time to considers that he is viewing the world as a whole.

But this is just my opinion.

[obumazombie]

Not being a Catholic I no reason to defend the Pope, however I think that he views things from a different perspective than Americans as a whole do. He seems to see everything through the lens of helping the poor and he sees the poor not so much as the American poor but the poor in the rest of the world. Face it, the poor in America are rich when  compared to the rest of the world. He also sees how the rich live and all they have and I'm sure he asks himself what harm would it cause the rich to have just one mansion and just one car and use the money to help those who have nothing. When he speaks negatively about capitalism, he seems to have that thought in mind. Why does one earn so much and another has nothing.

Remember, I don't think he has considered American capitalism and how it is practiced here where most of the rich do help the poor by contributing money to causes that reach out to those who need help. When you look at the vast poverty many of the African countries where the rich have propped up their own standard of living with no concern about those who literally have nothing. In that light I feel he does have a point and I tend to be less harsh on his criticism of capitalism.

We look at things here when he speaks. I don't think we take the time to considers that he is viewing the world as a whole.

But this is just my opinion.

I see your point, and I agree.
If someone has 2 mansions, and wants to(willingly of their own volition) give 1 away to a poor person in charity(or to "spread the wealth"), that's 1 thing.
But that's not how socialism works.
Socialism takes the mansion away from the person with 2 mansions at the point of a gun, and the poor guy who gets the proceeds doesn't even get the whole mansion. The lion's share of the proceeds of taking the mansion go to the socialist bureaucrats.

But the underlying issues are not being addressed.
Let's remember that the Pope and the Vatican live like kings and royalty.
That action doesn't match the Pope's words.
And that's why some orders take a vow of poverty.
But even those orders have little if anything left to want.

Then you have the poor.
Jesus said we will always have the poor with us.
There are always some obvious ambition level differences that largely account for that.

A great book to read on the subject is..."The Tragedy Of American Compassion" by Marvin J. O'Lasky.
Hunger, physical and otherwise is a great motivating force.
It steals a man's dignity and self respect to give him what he could otherwise earn.

Rush Limbaugh likes to say that capitalism works every time it's tried.
Socialism fails every time it's tried.
Capitalism is not perfect, but it is by any measure the best economic system ever by leaps and bounds.
Capitalism capitalizes most properly on man's innate human nature.


When considering whether capitalism or socialism is the answer, a very incisive question would be:
Is our God a God of plenty, or a God of scarcity ?

[FlaGator]

I am all for capitalism. Capitalism is not inherently evil; it is just a tool. Much like a hammer can be used to build houses for people and provide a profession it can also be used to bash someone's head open and kill them. The hammer is just a hammer not intrinsically evil. Capitalism is the same way. It can be used to promote individual and group prosperity. It can be used to lift up one's self and used to help others. When capitalism is driven by greed however, it tends to have an evil out come. The libs on DU hate it because they can't take advantage of it. As rule it requires someone is put in a certain amount of effort and generally that effort is hard work. However, they still get there menial jobs and government hand outs and are thus indebted to capitalism. I think that is way they hate it so much.

As for the Pope living in opulence, for the most part Francis has attempt to avoid that. He lives in basically a tiny hotel room and not the lavish apartment the previous popes have used. The point of the Fiat he is being driven in is to appear to be avoiding some of the luxuries previous popes have enjoyed. I believe he does this at the expense of his own safety. Now some of the trappings of the office he cannot avoid (the security detail, the jet for traveling, the robes he wears, etc).

What this does show is that the Catholic Church itself is hypocritical. That they have such luxuries and so much money while people suffer should point out to them their excess. I have issues with any church or minister who has fabulous wealth, lives like a king and is begging for money from people who can barely make ends meet. They like to say that it is to show how God will reward those who are faithful, but  that is just a lie they tell those who question them and perhaps they even tell it to themselves.

There is something inherently evil about taking money from the poor to prop up your own extravagant life style under the guise of sharing the Gospel. I would seriously hate to be in their shoes when they stand before Christ on the last day.

[Boudicca]

My opinion is that the Pope shouldn't have addressed Congress as a religious leader.  And as the head of state of Vatican City, he doesn't have enough international prestige to warrant a joint session.
If R's wanted a lecture on welcoming all the illegals here (which is what part of what he said boiled down to) they could go to any La Raza meetup.  Or have Geraldo Rivera yelling in their faces.   And for someone with such a reverence for life, why couldn't the Pope not just advocate for abolishing the death penalty, but straight out call abortion what it is, murder? 
Granted it's been two decades, but I remember the splendor of wealthy trappings that adorn the Vatican's halls.  How many statues, paintings or reliquaries have been sold and the monies distributed to the poor?  Have any Popes made a personal sacrifice of their own wealth or dignities to succor the poor?  No, I don't think so!  But the Church does like to solicit donations from the faithful for redistribution.  Not just a Catholic thing, although it seems to be glaringly obvious.  There are plenty of people out there (hello Hollowwooders) yammering for redistribution of wealth, any wealth, as long as it's yours, not theirs.
This entire week's coverage of the Pope has made me realize it's getting more and more difficult to find a so-called news channel actually covering news.  At least NewsMax didn't cover the entire mass yesterday...

[Crazy Horse]

I believe that everyone has forgotten that all Christians are Catholic, but the Pope only represents Roman Catholics.

[Fourwinds]

I heard his thoughts on immigration today on the radio. Frankly, I think that asshole has a lot of nerve lecturing us on the rights and wrongs of letting these illegal aliens in when he lives in a walled city.

[Carl]

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life".

That is all I need to rely on.

[GOP Congress]

The Pope is not here to promote the AMERICAN Catholic Church, but instead the SPANISH-speaking Catholics. As 10 of his 14 speeches will be conducted entirely in Spanish, the target audience are the very people we need to prevent from coming in the first place. His refusal to meet dissidants in Cuba has solidified the position the Pope has staked out.

Make no mistake. This is an absolute assault on America. I am not a conspiracy theorist, but the Pope Benedict's "resignation" now seems more like there was some Alinsky-ite goal in place for this to happen. Don't forget the blatant fast-tracking that Obama is doing to get these illegals to become citizens prior to the 2016 election as well.

[Ptarmigan]

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life".

That is all I need to rely on.

So true.

Miss Pope John Paul II.

[FlaGator]

I believe that everyone has forgotten that all Christians are Catholic, but the Pope only represents Roman Catholics.

Actually all Catholics are Christian but not all Christians are Catholic. Some will argue that,Romania Catholics aren't Christian but I  am not one of those
 I am Protestant, specifically Anglican.  I am a member of the catholic (universal)  Church but not a member of the Roman Catholic Church.

[Ptarmigan]

I believe that everyone has forgotten that all Christians are Catholic, but the Pope only represents Roman Catholics.

That is correct. Before Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church and Protestant Reformation, the Catholics were the Christians in town.

Vatican City represents Roman Catholics. There are Independent Catholics, not affiliated with the Vatican or Holy See.

[txradioguy]

Just as an aside...that Fiat 500 L the Pope is riding around in...cost $250 thousand dollars. And the American taxpayers are on the hook for the cost.

[Maverick1987]

Just as an aside...that Fiat 500 L the Pope is riding around in...cost $250 thousand dollars. And the American taxpayers are on the hook for the cost.

Hey, was it this one?

[youtube]
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eLd4BGMe-nY
[/youtube]

[67 Rover]

That is correct. Before Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church and Protestant Reformation, the Catholics were the Christians in town.

Vatican City represents Roman Catholics. There are Independent Catholics, not affiliated with the Vatican or Holy See.

I am Roman Catholic but always wondered where the Irish Catholics fall in.  Are they the independent Catholics you speak of?
 

[Boudicca]

I am Roman Catholic but always wondered where the Irish Catholics fall in.  Are they the independent Catholics you speak of?

67 Rover, I found this on Yahoo Answers, guess it's true?  I was raised Missouri Synod Lutheran and we, of course, are the original Protestants, thanks to Luther!  After ISIS is through rampaging all over the Mid East I doubt there will be a single Jew or Christian left in those countries.  But yeah, let's all scold the USA for not being compassionate enough to illegals. 

The Yahoo Answer:
Actually there are over 20 different Catholic Churches that make up the worldwide Catholic Church.

In addition to the Latin Rite (Roman) Catholic Church, the Eastern Rite Catholic Churches are in full communion with the Pope, and are part of the same worldwide Catholic Church.

Eastern Rite Catholic Churches include:

Alexandrian liturgical tradition
• Coptic Catholic Church
• Ethiopic Catholic Church

Antiochian (Antiochene or West-Syrian) liturgical tradition
• Maronite Church http://www.bkerkelb.org/
• Syrian Catholic Church
• Syro-Malankara Catholic Church http://www.syromalankara.org/

Armenian liturgical tradition:
• Armenian Catholic Church http://www.armeniancatholic.org/

Chaldean or East Syrian liturgical tradition:
• Chaldean Catholic Church
• Syro-Malabar Church http://www.smcim.org/

Byzantine (Constantinopolitan) liturgical tradition:
http://www.byzcath.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=145&Itemid=62
• Albanian Byzantine Catholic Church
• Belarusian Greek Catholic Church
• Bulgarian Greek Catholic Church
• Byzantine Church of the Eparchy of Križevci
• Greek Byzantine Catholic Church
• Hungarian Greek Catholic Church
• Italo-Albanian Catholic Church
• Macedonian Greek Catholic Church
• Melkite Greek Catholic Church http://www.pgc-lb.org/english/index.shtml
• Romanian Church
• Russian Byzantine Catholic Church
• Ruthenian Catholic Church
• Slovak Greek Catholic Church
• Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church http://web.archive.org/web/20080210111559/http://www.ugcc.org.ua/eng/

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13121a.htm

[obumazombie]

^Good stuff Boudicca.
I never really understood the distinctions.
I guess i should have been more inquisitive.

[DumbAss Tanker]

I am Roman Catholic but always wondered where the Irish Catholics fall in.  Are they the independent Catholics you speak of?

Roman Catholic just means you acknowledge the guy in the funny hat in Rome as the Big Boss.  At one time, the Celtic (Mainly Irish) branch of the church calculated the date of Easter differently, along with differences certain other doctrinal issues, which led to all sorts of frictions and excuses for the English to screw with them, but those divisions were eventually resolved.  That was all hundreds of years ago, and these days when someone says they're Irish Catholic, they are actually saying they are of Irish heritage and they are Roman Catholics.