kentuck (74,241 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026899281
Should this song be banned ?
I think it is a good idea to take down the "confederate" flag in our state capitols and on any public property. It might be a good idea to take down the statue of Nathan Bedford Forest in Nashville, TN also, because of his direct connection to the KKK and racism. However, I think we need to tread carefully. We do not wish to make matters worse, rather than better. When we start talking about banning everything connected with the South during the Civil War, we are treading on very shaky ground. Let us proceed carefully and rationally. The history is important to remember. We should try to be more civilized than the Taliban. How far are we willing to go with free speech??
[youtube]https://youtu.be/oAFjBSPUQJk[/youtube]
TheCount_ (32 posts)
23. I'm glad I missed it too
But you can see how things were tolerated that led to a deterioration of the country over decades.
I'm not even sure what the OP means by banned. You obviously can't pass a law, but government should make it very hard on people selling and promoting these items.
I don't think they should play it on the radio.
You could say that a person would have to be 21 to buy the CD.
They practically banned the Dixie Chicks for telling it like it is and for arguing with that dirty prick Toby Keith.
No... I am not for banning free speech... except, you know, banning free speech I don't like.
Warren DeMontague (61,871 posts)
34. deterioration? Hank Williams Jr. is a retrograde ****nut. Most Americans don't agree with him.
Most Americans support things like LGBT marriage equality, whereas even 10 years ago they didn't.
Part of this is because we "tolerate" media that a lot of people would have liked to see banned.
using what happened to the Dixie Chicks as an argument for censoring media that pisses people off is kind of ironic
.
TheCount_ (32 posts)
53. You're comparing the Dixie Chicks to Hank Williams?
The Dixie Chicks made a single comment in England. Hank Williams promotes divisiveness and a disgusting symbol in this country. The symbol is not even subtle. It's like the Nazi flag. In fact, there is a thread around here comparing the Nazi flag with the Confederate flag. The Nazi flag is curbed in Germany because of practicalities. The same should be done with the confederate flag here.
Yes. Ban the flag. Ban free speech. Ban open thought. Lets see what kind of country you'll have when you are done.
Warren DeMontague (61,871 posts)
55. I'm saying that when you start dancing down the road of censoring speech that is unpopular
pretty soon you run up against people wanting to censor things you support. That is the lesson of the Dixie Chicks.
Germany doesn't have the 1st Amendment. Personally I believe that the 1st Amendment is a stronger bulwark against Nazi-style totalitarianism than banning a symbol ever could be, and I had family members die in those camps.
That said, there's no reason the confederate flag should be flying at statehouses or any other public venue.
TheCount_ (32 posts)
61. Not really
The Dixie Chicks simply made a statement. No harm to anyone. The Nazi and Confederate flags incite hate because they are about hate. If you say the flag should not fly on public grounds but not private grounds, then that is hypocritical. The reasons for getting rid of it are the same.
The public came out against the Dixie Chicks. They chose to use their free sheep, the public did too.
You are talking using the government to suppress thought and actions you deem wrong. Huge difference there, Sparky.
TheCount_ (32 posts)
66. Don't tell me.
Tell that to the Supreme Court. These cases are not monolithic. Flag burning cases, for example, often have divided opinions. The 1989 Texas v Johnson case, for example, was not unanimous. The dissenting opinion emphasized that the flag's symbol of national unity outweighed symbolic speech. If a court can uphold a law emphasizing national unity, then the opposite would apply. A flag or item causing such discord could also be the subject of limited speech.
Yes, the court favored and generally favors flag burning. That will happen unless, or perhaps until, the majority sees it the other way.
TheCount_ (32 posts)
73. I'm not talking about banning something that ticks off someone. I am talking about more than that. What if one of these rednecks wheres a confederate flag t shirt at a gathering where a lot of black people attend? That can get pretty in your face. These things are given to creeping up. They can be subtle. Or in this case not so subtle. And what good is free speech if you're not safe to speak it or walk around with people in your face all the time? Facebook and other things are bad enough. Seems people are in your face more than ever. Some people are just looking for a fight. I know it's true with these hate mongers and their stupid southern rock.
BTW, what is your PS? Their/there. I know how to spell.
Warren DeMontague (61,871 posts)
74. You say you're not talking about 'banning something that ticks off someone' and then proceed to give
examples of exactly that.
Yes, I know. "incitement", like drawing a blasphemous cartoon, or flying a racist flag, or, I don't know, getting up on stage at a rally for homophobic right wing ****heads and going "i'm gay"
See where I'm going with this? You can't give a heckler's veto to everyone who might get mad about something, even if they might get REALLY mad, even if you think they have a good reason to get really mad, even if the person KNOWS they're going to make the other person really mad.
It doesn't work that way.
As for the rest of it - "facebook and other things are bad enough"- why? No one has to go on facebook by court order, do they? Seems to me someone who hates facebook needs to go to the extensive trouble of NOT typing "facebook.com" in their browser window. Onerous and in your face, indeed!
Lastly, you asked what this was about, before:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6899965
And I answered.
Jamastiene (35,405 posts)
10. No one is talking about banning anything.
People just want government property in some stubborn states to stop having quite so much Confederate memorabilia. It's like a damn shrine to the Confederacy in some areas. It's one thing on private property, where some of us find it disgusting, but because of the 1st Amendment cannot do anything about it (except I let all of the bushes and stuff grow around my property so I won't have to see them every-****ing-where around me, damn neighborhood is cluttered with them). On state grounds, there is no reason for so many states to enshrine the Confederacy quite so damn much. History is one thing, but if you see how it is in the Carolinas and some other areas, it is overwhelmingly Confederate. It's not even like America. It's like the Confederacy never even ****ing stopped. It's like a deranged nightmare that won't end, for some of us.
Personally, I wouldn't mind if I never saw that ****ing flag again. I know I don't have that luxury, though, and never will. If I had a half a penny for every time some jerk in my hometown said the Civil War wasn't about slavery, I'd be a damn billionaire. There ain't a damn thing I can do about them except despise their bullshit lies and put up with it. I hate it, but poverty keeps it so that's the story of my shit life. fml, but that's beside the point.
The least we can do is get so much Confederate crap off state property. It has been so overwhelming just how much of that crap clutters state monuments down here that you would barely know you are even in America. Until you have experienced it, it is hard to understand. For some, it is what they love to wallow in, like pigs in filth. For the rest of us, it is a nightmare that never ends.
Cleita (72,913 posts)
26. I'm not for banning anything artists do, even if it's political.
What I am against is not presenting both sides because there is always both sides. I haven't heard a good protest song in a long time. I don't believe musicians aren't writing them. They just aren't being heard at least not in my area. The radio stations have been usurped by the right wingers. There was a time we could get Randi Rhodes, Thom Hartmann and Stephanie Miller on a very low power station for talk radio, but that is gone along with any good music stations.
The last really great protest songs were by Arlo Guthrie.
MineralMan (73,676 posts)
41. Banned by Whom?
I don't understand. The First Amendment protects expression of ideas. There's not going to be any government-ordered ban of any such thing. There won't be bans on the Stars and Bars, either. People will still be able to own and display it as they choose. However, businesses can ban it from their stores and refuse to sell it. People will also be able, as they always have been, to express their disgust at its display.
The government isn't going to ban this song or the flag, either. It may decide not to officially display it on government property, of course, but an individual will still be able to carry it on that property, put it on their car, or whatever, as stupid as that is.
This kind of post fails to recognize that private decisions and government decisions are completely different.
LanternWaste (21,698 posts)
58. I'm not aware of any confederate related material that's been banned...
I'm not aware of any confederate related material that's been banned from ownership, distribution or sales over the past week or two. I am however, aware of the free market reacting to public perception and state governments refusing to endorse the relevant historical message of that failed, 4-year state via the mechanism of public display (though I realize many under-educated people will pretend that, like governments denying to endorse a religion, it is in fact a ban).
And if a handful of people on DU or elsewhere are calling for this or that to be banned, well-- bless their hearts for excising the first amendment. Nothing will come of it, and it's a great way to express and vent our frustrations.
DU is like a suspect, arrested at the murder scene, with a gun in his hand, blood on his clothes, the body in the trunk of his car, telling the Police, "I didn't do nothing!"
