Skippy gives the cave and CU a shout out....kinda

[Tucker]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026719009

Sat May 23, 2015, 09:09 PM

leftofcool (9,109 posts)

OMG! I have been mentioned on Discussionist!
Not as many times as Will Pitt or Brooklynite but I did get a nasty mention (something about "hot air') Is there a prize????????????

Response to onehandle (Reply #3)

Sat May 23, 2015, 09:24 PM

The Straight Story (47,904 posts)
7. What they have done is

Create a site they don't interact with or care about and left it to whomever comes along.

Much like it seems they are aiming for here.

If DU folks want to influence that site they can sign up, post, and get involved in the jury pools and run it how they think a site should be run.

Some of us have done so, but the right wing has better success at forming the site how they want it. Du has way more than enough people to sign up, post, and change the landscape of it. But they don't want to.

So not sure why folks complain so much about it, no one is keeping folks here from getting involved in it.

Perhaps, in the end, it was a social experiment. Give people the ability to run a site, see who takes advantage of it, and sit back and watch. DU'ers like a quasi moderated site, and then complain about the moderation. And when not upset over that complain about the juries - which work slightly better here than there (but not by much).

My take: Sites like Di with no moderation are just plain lazy. Look at really well done sites, like reddit, where you have a healthy mix of moderation on a large scale and small.

The owners of both sites don't want to be involved (look at ask the admins). Di had potential but it was abandoned by both the admins and people here who couldn't stomach views contrary to theirs (not talking about the trolling style posts).

I didn't know that he was still above ground.

Response to leftofcool (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2015, 09:18 PM

Star Member bravenak (12,340 posts)
4. I'm pissed that nobody mentioned me.

You guys have all the fun!!

Never heard of you.

Response to leftofcool (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2015, 09:31 PM

Star Member NYC_SKP (68,221 posts)
10. Until you've been on the top ten Dummies list, you're bush league!

Work harder!

[98ZJUSMC]

The Straight Story (47,904 posts)

My eyes are stuck     staring at the ceiling.

leftofcool (9,109 posts)

Nowhere to go, but down.  Just go ahead and end it.

[obumazombie]

Response to leftofcool (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2015, 09:31 PM

Star Member NYC_SKP (68,221 posts)
10. Until you've been on the top ten Dummies list, you're bush league!

Work harder!

Their infamy comes naturally.
They don't even have to work at it.

[txradioguy]

I wonder if Straight Story realizes the "Admins" he/she are bashing is Skinner Earl G and Elad? Also by referring to DU Jr as a less than quality site it's also a backhanded slap at DU as well since they both run off the same software.

[BuzzClik]

I wonder if Straight Story realizes the "Admins" he/she are bashing is Skinner Earl G and Elad?

(My recollection is Straight Story is a she; I could be wrong.) Actually, I found her analysis of Discussionist (Di) to be dead on:

• Most DUers cannot stomach a heated debate that challenges their views
• The Admins are totally absent and could not care less about the site
• Those on the left are being outplayed by those on the right

I have no idea if Skinner et al. ever visit Di or have any real admin authority (i.e., the listed admins), but her criticism of Skinner et al is also on the money. It's fairly typical for admins of a board with a specific purpose to create a spin-off board for conversations not welcome at the original. And, the admins of the original immediately hand over the reigns to someone else. The spin-off board is the ugly stepchild of the original that is neglected and left to find its own way.

Also by referring to DU Jr as a less than quality site it's also a backhanded slap at DU as well since they both run off the same software.

I don't think she was criticizing the software...

[Tucker]

(My recollection is Straight Story is a she; I could be wrong.) Actually, I found her analysis of Discussionist (Di) to be dead on:
[

As usual, you're wrong. It's a he. His wife DUmped him after she got sick. This was pre gofundme else he would have bled DU dry trying to get back to Ohio and sponge off of his Dad.

I remember something about wanting to jump from an airplane. Can't remember the details.

It's all in the dossiers. Why don't you try reading them?

[SVPete]

I don't think she was criticizing the software...

Not contradicting your point, but what I've seen of DU's board SW reminds me of late 90s and very early 00s roll-your-own (RYO) discussion board SW (e.g. go visit the discussion boards at VegSource.com, which I know is RYO, written in the late 90s *). I realize the DU was created toward the end of that timeframe, but by then UBB (Infopop) was readily available, as was vBulletin, a re-write of UBB by Jelsoft. Using vBulletin from the beginning of DU would have given DU an ongoing upgrade/update path; while vBulletin is not free, RYO SW costs time, makes updating the look/feel even more time consuming, and makes migrating to an industry standard SW package a total reboot.

So while TSS was clearly speaking of the people who participate at Di and DU, and to the way it is run, DU's look and feel are dinosaurian - old and clunky.

* Once upon a time - ~15 years ago - VegSource's Homeschooling forums were the busiest homeschooling discussion forums on the Internet. Literally scores or hundreds of posts a day. Now, those forums are a ghost town - a handful of posts a year. A large part of the homeschooling forums' demise has to do with one of the hazards of RYO forum SW. The RYOers were less than great about security, and the forums got hacked to Valhalla ... multiple times. Maybe DU's RYOers have been better with security; maybe hackers are largely sympathetic to DU's POV; or maybe hackers see DU as an insignificant target.

[Big Dog]

As usual, you're wrong. It's a he. His wife DUmped him after she got sick. This was pre gofundme else he would have bled DU dry trying to get back to Ohio and sponge off of his Dad.

I remember something about wanting to jump from an airplane. Can't remember the details.

It's all in the dossiers. Why don't you try reading them?

Buzz doesn't have enough posts to see the good stuff.

[obumazombie]

Buzz doesn't have enough posts to see the good stuff.

Luckily that doesn't keep him from being wrong.
Libs have the market cornered there.

[Tucker]

Buzz doesn't have enough posts to see the good stuff.

I know that. 

[Big Dog]

I know that. 

I figured!

I am taunting him, with a treat that is out of his reach.



 

[Tucker]

I figured!

I am taunting him, with a treat that is out of his reach.

The DUmmies know that we have secret files on many of them. They just don't know where we keep em.

[franksolich]

The DUmmies know that we have secret files on many of them. They just don't know where we keep em.

Plus, as it needs mentioned, we're not the only ones.

I imagine the NSA, CIA, FBI, Secret Service, Homeland Security, ATF, MI5, FSB, Mossad, Savak, BND, DGSE, MSS, AISE, CISEN, and even the Knights of Malta, keep their eyes on Skippy, for example.

And we're rank amateurs when compared with these professionals.

[Carl]

(My recollection is Straight Story is a she; I could be wrong.) Actually, I found her analysis of Discussionist (Di) to be dead on:

• Most DUers cannot stomach a heated debate that challenges their views
• The Admins are totally absent and could not care less about the site
• Those on the left are being outplayed by those on the right

I have no idea if Skinner et al. ever visit Di or have any real admin authority (i.e., the listed admins), but her criticism of Skinner et al is also on the money. It's fairly typical for admins of a board with a specific purpose to create a spin-off board for conversations not welcome at the original. And, the admins of the original immediately hand over the reigns to someone else. The spin-off board is the ugly stepchild of the original that is neglected and left to find its own way.

I don't think she was criticizing the software...

TSS is a guy and a scammer.
The DUmp ran dry for him but he is still an online beggar.

Most DUers cannot stomach a heated debate that challenges their views

We have seen that,are you going to start another DUmp thread and then tell us all to go debate you there where one post will lead to a ban?
Funny you are still a member here though isn`t it Buzz?

[FaC]

Not contradicting your point, but what I've seen of DU's board SW reminds me of late 90s and very early 00s roll-your-own (RYO) discussion board SW (e.g. go visit the discussion boards at VegSource.com, which I know is RYO, written in the late 90s *).
<...>

The parts that Skinner, Earl and Elad chose to change tell their own story. That story is around control and imposing their beliefs on their user community. All three are little authoritarian control freaks...

[BuzzClik]

Not contradicting your point, but what I've seen of DU's board SW reminds me of late 90s and very early 00s roll-your-own (RYO) discussion board SW (e.g. go visit the discussion boards at VegSource.com, which I know is RYO, written in the late 90s *)...

I'll defer to your knowledge on this subject. I have little trouble negotiating DU and like the ability to have subthreads (in contrast to this board which is strictly linear). The subthreads get clunky when the responses exceed about 8 -- then you cannot tell what is going on.

The parts that Skinner, Earl and Elad chose to change tell their own story. That story is around control and imposing their beliefs on their user community. All three are little authoritarian control freaks...

Less control freaks than days gone by. For what ever reason, the board when into total chaos when Obama was elected. The anti-Obama threads exploded and were barely restrained. That has not changed.

The free-for-all surrounding the primaries seems to be a tradition that they also let happen.

The real control freaks are those in charge of subforums, like Feminism, Environment/Energy, and the LGBT. I have received lifetime bans from all three. (The Feminism one was the only one that was deserved; the Envrironment/Energy ban is the most recent and the direct result of a little Hitler not liking the fact that I bluntly demonstrated that one of his adoring brownshirts was scientifically illiterate.)

DU has actually become protective of newbies, regardless of how clearly rightwing their messages might be.

[txradioguy]

DU went into total chaos in 2008 because Mr Allen decreed that any criticism of the President elect would lead to tombstones. That and there was a general purge of Hillary supporters that still posted there in order to silence dissent.

[BuzzClik]

DU went into total chaos in 2008 because Mr Allen decreed that any criticism of the President elect would lead to tombstones. That and there was a general purge of Hillary supporters that still posted there in order to silence dissent.

That was not my experience. Before the general election, there was a mass exodus of bitter, pouting Hillary supporters who return en masse in 2009 to blast Obama at every turn -- with no repercussions.

...there was a general purge of Hillary supporters that still posted there in order to silence dissent.

That is is not consistent with my recollection, beyond the normal banning for horrid behavior. And, considering that Skinner has been bought and paid for by Hillary Clinton, it seems even more unlikely that DU had a purge of Hillary supporters.

Caveat: I have no statistics; these are my personal observations.

[txradioguy]

The documentation of the events I described above is all right here at CC.   Right down to Skinners posts about no tolerance of criticism of Obama.

In general our record of actual events at DU proves your recollection of that time period sucks.

[Tucker]

Buzz

I suggest that you reacquaint yourself with PUMA

[RobJohnson]

I wonder if Straight Story realizes the "Admins" he/she are bashing is Skinner Earl G and Elad? Also by referring to DU Jr as a less than quality site it's also a backhanded slap at DU as well since they both run off the same software.

 

[Carl]

Buzz,understand something.

David Allen (Mr Moskwa) is a democrat party low level operative.
He has nothing but scorn and contempt for the socialist/commie mutts that make up much of the DUmp.
Add into that all the mentally stunted "my issue is the only one that matters" dreck and is it any wonder all he is interested in is cashing the ad revenue check and being a good Clinton water carrier so that money keeps flowing to the wife?

[SVPete]

Plus, as it needs mentioned, we're not the only ones.

I imagine the NSA, CIA, FBI, Secret Service, Homeland Security, ATF, MI5, FSB, Mossad, Savak, BND, DGSE, MSS, AISE, CISEN, and even the Knights of Malta, keep their eyes on Skippy, for example.

And we're rank amateurs when compared with these professionals.

Don't forget the BFEE and Opus Dei.

[miskie]

Not contradicting your point, but what I've seen of DU's board SW reminds me of late 90s and very early 00s roll-your-own (RYO) discussion board SW (e.g. go visit the discussion boards at VegSource.com, which I know is RYO, written in the late 90s *). I realize the DU was created toward the end of that timeframe, but by then UBB (Infopop) was readily available, as was vBulletin, a re-write of UBB by Jelsoft. Using vBulletin from the beginning of DU would have given DU an ongoing upgrade/update path; while vBulletin is not free, RYO SW costs time, makes updating the look/feel even more time consuming, and makes migrating to an industry standard SW package a total reboot.

So while TSS was clearly speaking of the people who participate at Di and DU, and to the way it is run, DU's look and feel are dinosaurian - old and clunky.

* Once upon a time - ~15 years ago - VegSource's Homeschooling forums were the busiest homeschooling discussion forums on the Internet. Literally scores or hundreds of posts a day. Now, those forums are a ghost town - a handful of posts a year. A large part of the homeschooling forums' demise has to do with one of the hazards of RYO forum SW. The RYOers were less than great about security, and the forums got hacked to Valhalla ... multiple times. Maybe DU's RYOers have been better with security; maybe hackers are largely sympathetic to DU's POV; or maybe hackers see DU as an insignificant target.

The original DU was based on DCForum, and later the MySql backended DCForum+ - As far as I'm concerned, this was an unforeseen mistake on Skin & Co.'s behalf, as DCScripts ultimately abandoned their software. Anyway, DU seemed to believe it was far more important to retain their history than to move to something else, so they patched and upgraded DCF+ beyond reasonable expectations. I also think the years of working with DCF+ colored the administration's perception on forum design so much that Discussionist is the only modern forum software that I know of that defaults to the old USENET threaded message style, versus the currently accepted standard of time-based posts within a single thread. For reasons I cannot imagine, the server(s) the forum runs on seem/s to still be loaded with Apache 1.3.34 - which depreciated years ago. I really don't understand why the site isn't hacked daily - or perhaps it is, and whoever has exploited it is keeping quiet to harvest everyone there for data. Other software DU's server continues to run is outdated in a major way ( 8-10 years ) and is equally exploitable, I'm sure. I can only hope that Skins is behind a frequently updated hardware firewall that blocks his systems from attack.

Still though, not the best policy. That firewall is only one layer (assuming its there) - and if someone gets by - they are in.

Anyway.. The only logical explanation is DU (and DI ) are so closely based on things learned from working with the defunct DCForums+ that they aren't compatible with newer versions of Apache, Php, MySQL, etc. because they use the same outdated methods to do things that DCF+ did back in 2000. So yeah. Old & Clunky. - Like slapping a fiberglass Porche replica body on a 1976 VW Superbeetle Chassis.

[SVPete]

Thanks for the background info, Miskie. Besides some RYO forums, I think I've seen DCForums(+) on a couple sites long ago. The site I mentioned above, VegSource (VS) and the old Preston-Speed (now HomeschoolChristian, but not on RYO) sites use/used RYO SW. And VS got hacked to Valhalla more than once. But I think the old Warships1 and Kaleidoscapes sites, and CapitolHillBlue Reader Rant in 1998 may have used DCForums. CHBRR got hacked to Valhalla in late 1998 and came back a week or two later, sans history, on UBB.

VS, when its homeschooling forum was very active (ca. 2000 and 2001), all but defined the clunkiness of that presentation format. I'm not exaggerating in saying that sometimes sub-threads had sub-threads that had sub-threads that had sub-threads. Following who was replying to whom and how posts fit with other sub-threads became almost impossible. Linear chronological presentation is not without less-than-strong points, but it's much less confusing for longer threads, especially if people are reasonably consistent in using the Quote function and/or otherwise quote to what they are responding, and/or mention the name of the member to whom they are responding. Linear chronological presentation has been pretty much the standard presentation for over a decade, and the multiple sub-threading presentation probably loses DU some potential new members.

It's sad that websites have to worry about security and hackers, but it is reality. Running old SW is irresponsible, and RYO or partial RYO is somewhere between risky and irresponsible. DU should update their server SW and transition to vBulletin, phpBB, or ??, or to some CMS that includes discussion board SW. Maybe close the old board to new threads - which would go to the new board - but leave it open for 4 or 5 weeks for existing threads to play out. History might be lost (unless they hid it behind a faithful long-term members sub-forum) and there would be some $$ investment up front, but it would quickly pay off. Not that I think they would see that so doing would be a good idea.

BTW, I'm not a SW guru-oid life form, just some one who's been around discussion forums for some 18 years.