Russia a threat to Europe. DU: NATO IS A THREAT!!!!

[dutch508]

Purveyor (22,868 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141071008

Europe Faces A 'real Threat' From Russia, Warns US Army Commander

Cold War II, due to Barry's ball-less foriegn policies and weak military grandstanding, is alive and well. Europe asks America to stand firm against Russian expantionism.

DU's take? It's America's fault.

Geronimoe (165 posts)
2. In other news... Russia faces real threat from US Army Commander. His moving live Patriot missiles system to Warsaw is threat to Russia.

 

Lionel Mandrake (3,545 posts)
30. Wouldn't the world be better off without NATO?

Patriot missiles don't really work very well, except to piss off the Russians.  Russia has been invaded repeatedly in modern times by armies from Western Europe. So they're paranoid. We should remembert that.

[blink bink]    Yeah... by the Germans... in 1915 and 1941.  Who was their ally? The rest of Western Europe.

Lionel Mandrake (3,545 posts)
33. Yes Russia has invaded other countries, and that's not nice, but common sense and geography will prevent us from doing anything about it. It's not the job of the USA to right every wrong in the world. NATO was formed to protect Western Europe from being overrun by Soviet tanks and troops. That mission, and the need for NATO, ended with the breakup of the Soviet Union. 

And is roaring back with the rise of Putin ruled Russia. Jesus thes people are delusional.

bluedigger (12,798 posts)
3. He's still stuck in the '80's when he joined, most likely. Back then the Soviet bloc was routinely referred to as "the Threat" in military training exercises and classrooms.

Hmmm... why isn't the Soviets a threat anymore? Oh yeah- in the 1980s Reagan was President. One with some balls in charge of the West. Not like today.

bluedigger (12,798 posts)
5. I was referring to his choice of words in portraying Russia as the Bogeyman. Are you scared yet?

 

Little Tich (828 posts)
26. The situation is bad in Ukraine, and some local idiots are marching.

It still doesn't change the fact that Russia has invaded and occupied parts of Ukraine, and is sending weapons and “volunteers” to rebel groups who perpetrate war crimes and even terrorism.

Putin is a two-faced liar who is the single cause of this conflict.

 

MattSh (2,739 posts)
35. The situation is bad in Ukraine

Yep, that's what happens when the USA backs a Nazi putsch. 

NuclearDem (11,698 posts)
36. No, that's what happens when a country invades and annexes part of its neighbor.

But you knew that.

 

[thundley4]

Geronimoe (165 posts)
2. In other news... Russia faces real threat from US Army Commander. His moving live Patriot missiles system to Warsaw is threat to Russia.

Maybe if Obama had not backed out of the agreement to place missiles in Poland several years ago, Putin wouldn't have been encouraged to invade other countries.

Maybe if Obama had not withdrawn from a SOFA with Iraq, ISIS and Iran wouldn't be fighting to see who controls Iraq in the future.

Maybe if Obama had not informed the Taliban, ISIS and other terrorists of his timeline for withdrawing troops from Afghanistan it wouldn't be seeing the terror attacks they are.


Obama is a failure.

[txradioguy]

Geronimoe (165 posts)
2. In other news... Russia faces real threat from US Army Commander. His moving live Patriot missiles system to Warsaw is threat to Russia.

It was an exercise you moron.  It's something we do every year with the Polish air defenders.  It involved 100 soldiers from 5/7 ADA.  We're not emplacing Patriot missiles in Poland.  The President effectively killed anything of a permenent nature.  So all we do now is send people to train their duck hunters.

And you really need to take a look at what forces we have left in USAREUR versus what Putin has stacked just around the border of Ukraine alone.

Then we'll talk about who is the "real threat".

Lionel Mandrake (3,545 posts)
30. Wouldn't the world be better off without NATO?

No.  Not really. 

Patriot missiles don't really work very well, except to piss off the Russians.

 

You're knowledge on this is pathetic.  Patriot is not only anti aircraft in nature it's now anti missile capable to.  Not only is there a proximity warhead....they've developed a direct strike cvariant too.

And if you don't think it works well...as Hezbollah and Hamas how well Patriots work at shooting down their missiles aimed at Jewish population cetners.

Moron.


I just got done with a two week road march through the Baltics...from Estonia to Germany.  Those people are terrified of the moves Putin is making because they are all afraid they are next.  And too many of them don't want to return to the days of living under the boot heel of Communism.

You're talking about countries that two or three brigades of land forces to defend their borders versus The Russian Army.  They know that if Russia decided to they'd crush them in days without their new allies in NATO and training from the U.S.

There were more U.S. flags in Czech than there were Czech flags.  Every stop people came up to us talking about the Prague Spring and their fear of it's return.  They held signs saying "You saved us 3 times".

So don't sit there from the comfort of your home in the U.S. and repeat what AJE or RT is telling you about what's going on over here.  The threat is very real and it comes from the East...NOT the West.

[txradioguy]

U.S. Forces in Germany during the Cold War




In 2015 we've got one Combat brigade in Germand (2nd Cav) and one in Italy (173rd Airborne) and one Aviation Brigade.  That's it.  No Corps, no Divisions just two light brigades.  Anything else rolling around over here is having to be shipped over from the states for 9 months at a time and shipped back home.


We're down to two Air Bases in Germany (Ramstien and Spangdelham) and one in Italy.


And the U.S. is in the best shape equipment wise of any of the NATO partners when it comes to readiness and what's not working.

Putin has over 34,000 troops along the Ikraine border alone.  That's more than the total force structure of USAREUR.


So remind me again exactly WHO is the threat?

[SVPete]

You're knowledge on (Patriot missiles) is pathetic.  Patriot is not only anti aircraft in nature it's now anti missile capable to.  Not only is there a proximity warhead....they've developed a direct strike cvariant too.

And if you don't think it works well...as Hezbollah and Hamas how well Patriots work at shooting down their missiles aimed at Jewish population cetners.

The DU-dude(-ette) seems to be speaking of the Patriot missiles as if they were offensive weapons. Maybe (s)he is confusing Patriots for the medium range Pershing II missiles, which POed the Russians when Reagan deployed them to EuroLand ... in response to the Soviets having deployed SS-20s in Eastern EuroLand.

I guess Patriots would PO the Russians, in the sense that the Patriots would reduce the effectiveness of short-medium range missile attacks.. As to their effectiveness, the DU-dude(-ette) could also ask Saddam Hussein about the Scuds he fired at Israel and at US forces in Saudi Arabia during the Gulf war (I hear that Saddam isn't very responsive to queries these days, though).

[txradioguy]

The DU-dude(-ette) seems to be speaking of the Patriot missiles as if they were offensive weapons. Maybe (s)he is confusing Patriots for the medium range Pershing II missiles, which POed the Russians when Reagan deployed them to EuroLand ... in response to the Soviets having deployed SS-20s in Eastern EuroLand.

I think they just look at anything we do as aggression against the peaceful Russians.  But that being said, Poland WAS supposed to become part of the missile defense shield with permanent launchers and troops stationed there...but that deal brokered by W's administration was scrapped in 2009 by...yup you guessed it.

Putin is lashing out...and make no mistake that's what he's doing...because he sees all of his old WARSAW Pact nations suddenly joining NATO.

I guess Patriots would PO the Russians, in the sense that the Patriots would reduce the effectiveness of short-medium range missile attacks.. As to their effectiveness, the DU-dude(-ette) could also ask Saddam Hussein about the Scuds he fired at Israel and at US forces in Saudi Arabia during the Gulf war (I hear that Saddam isn't very responsive to queries these days, though).

Patriots permenently stationed in Poland would ensure that if Putin launched a medium range rocket attack in that region...the missiles wouldn't reach their destination.

[SVPete]

Putin is lashing out...and make no mistake that's what he's doing...because he sees all of his old WARSAW Pact nations suddenly joining NATO.

Chicken-Egg Question: Is Putin being aggressive because of Eastern EuroNations joining NATO, or are Eastern EuroNations joining NATO due to Putin's aggression. There may be some of both, I suppose, but my impression is that Putin has rebuilding the Soviet Empire as a primary goal, and former satellites don't want to go back to puppet-satellite status.

[Carl]

I think they just look at anything we do as aggression against the peaceful Russians.  But that being said, Poland WAS supposed to become part of the missile defense shield with permanent launchers and troops stationed there...but that deal brokered by W's administration was scrapped in 2009 by...yup you guessed it.

Putin is lashing out...and make no mistake that's what he's doing...because he sees all of his old WARSAW Pact nations suddenly joining NATO.

Patriots permenently stationed in Poland would ensure that if Putin launched a medium range rocket attack in that region...the missiles wouldn't reach their destination.

One President undoing a deal another one made?
Why I believe according to the DUmbasses of late that makes Barry O a traitor.

[txradioguy]

One President undoing a deal another one made?

Yup

Obama's decision Wednesday to scuttle a costly and technically challenged long-range missile-defense system in Europe marks his most significant reversal of a Bush foreign policy priority. It could change the dynamic of what has been an increasingly tense relationship between the U.S. and Russia, which viewed the Bush plans for missile defenses in Poland and the Czech Republic as a threat.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama-scraps-bush-missile-defense-plan/story?id=8604357

Why I believe according to the DUmbasses of late that makes Barry O a traitor.

Different President...different set of rules.

[txradioguy]

Chicken-Egg Question: Is Putin being aggressive because of Eastern EuroNations joining NATO, or are Eastern EuroNations joining NATO due to Putin's aggression. There may be some of both, I suppose, but my impression is that Putin has rebuilding the Soviet Empire as a primary goal, and former satellites don't want to go back to puppet-satellite status.

I think he was feeling the pressure of both.  And they go hand in hand.  The old CP leadership never really went away even though  hey were sidelined and they put enormous pressure on Putin to restore the greatness of the Motherland so to speak.  At the same time, Putin sees all the former SSR's breaking out with democracy and waiving NATO and U.S. flags and decides...because of pressure from the Old Bull hardliners he has to do something.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Lionel Mandrake (3,545 posts)
30. Wouldn't the world be better off without NATO?

Patriot missiles don't really work very well, except to piss off the Russians.  Russia has been invaded repeatedly in modern times by armies from Western Europe. So they're paranoid. We should remembert that.

Once by the French two hundred-odd years ago, and once by the Germans in 1941.  All the rest of the times, the Russians tried to invade somebody else first, but it just didn't turn out all that well for them and they ended up fighting on their own turf.

[Carl]

Chicken-Egg Question: Is Putin being aggressive because of Eastern EuroNations joining NATO, or are Eastern EuroNations joining NATO due to Putin's aggression. There may be some of both, I suppose, but my impression is that Putin has rebuilding the Soviet Empire as a primary goal, and former satellites don't want to go back to puppet-satellite status.

I would throw into the equation the question "why does a dog lick its nuts...because he can!"

Putin knows that the only natural counter to his ambitions is a gutless,America hating wuss so this is his chance.

[BlueStateSaint]

U.S. Forces in Germany during the Cold War

The good old days . . . 

[txradioguy]

The good old days . . . 

I've still got the book they gave me in 1992 at MEPS that has my original contract in it and some "What to expect at Basic training" info.  On the cover from and back is every single division and separate brigade patch on Active Duty at that time. 

18 divisions plus about 5 separate brigades.

Now look at how small we are in an ever dangerous world.  Reagan's Bear is once again outside the door and instead of arming up, we're putting seasoning on ourselves so we can get eaten.

 

[SVPete]

Once by the French two hundred-odd years ago, and once by the Germans in 1941.  All the rest of the times, the Russians tried to invade somebody else first, but it just didn't turn out all that well for them and they ended up fighting on their own turf.

Lots of 19th Century aggression by the Russians in what became the ______stans. Hitler's invasions of Poland and Russia are pretty well known by most Americans. That Russia invaded and occupied eastern Poland shortly after Germany's invasion - by agreement with Hitler - is less well known. And unlike Germany, Russia never gave back the piece of Poland it took. The boundaries of Poland got moved one river westward, basically.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Then there was that whole Winter War thing against the Finns, the war with the Poles in the 20s that shoved them out of there, the seizure of the Baltic States, the Tsar's aggressive pan-Slavic stance that kicked off WW1, followed by a rather poorly-executed invasion of East Prussia that came to grief at Tannenberg and Masurian Lakes...

[jukin]

The euros can fend for themselves as far as I am concerned. When the shit hits the fan they will beg us to come fight. I say we don't. We have already done it twice and the cold war was only funding huge social programs for the euros when they should have been providing deterrence to the USSR.

The euros know so much better than us stupid Americans they should show us how it is done. Of course those BMWs won't be so available. Oh well.

[J P Sousa]

The Marxists will always defend "Mother Russia", unfortunately.

Makes one wonder why they don't go live there.