DUmmie spins a God bouncy

[CC27]

Star Member PCIntern (15,807 posts)

Had a fascinating moment concerning "God's Plan"...


yesterday a lady came to see me whose husband is quite a bit older than she and she informed me that he had had a terrible tumor which had severely damaged him and he transitioned from being a fully-functional working man and husband to a diaper-wearing, lacking-short-term-memory, invalid who is in and out of semi-consciousness. She and her husband attended church regularly on Sundays and the pastor sought her out and said to her that she was sorry but this was all part of God's Plan. The parishioner, usually pretty contained, went all-out angry and demanded to know how medically torturing individuals in this manner, killing children, waging war against innocents, and the like was all part of some Plan. I can only imagine...she's tough as nails and physically imposing. I would be cringing and in great fear if she ever took off after me, I can tell you that much.

But the story doesn't end there: my employee who has lived her life defending this way of thinking was stunned into silence. I'm usually pretty circumspect when it comes to these issues but after the lady left, I said to my assistant, "I suppose she's stopped drinking the Kool-Aid." I said to no one in particular and left the room.

I'm tired of this rationalization for tolerance and thus acceptance of evil things and bad things. Just tired of listening to it with many of those who promulgate it being the utmost of hypocrites themselves.

Bouncy city this week.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026421940

[Gina]

 

[thundley4]

yesterday a lady came to see me

 I said to my assistant, "I suppose she's stopped drinking the Kool-Aid." I said to no one in particular and left the room


WTF?  Really? God they are so stupid when they make this crap up.

[Carl]

Yeah,most people go to church just itching for a reason to spew the DNC talking points.

[Tess Anderson]

Jonathan is in a little trouble on his thread, at least one other dummy has reported him.

Response to PCIntern (Original post)Fri Mar 27, 2015, 07:02 AM
Fumesucker (39,859 posts)
2. Epicurus had the essence of it ~2300 years ago

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God?


For me at least it is much more comforting to think there is no God than a malevolent God.

  but Jonathan bites:

Response to Fumesucker (Reply #2)Fri Mar 27, 2015, 07:13 AM
Star Member PCIntern (15,807 posts)
3. I like that...printed it up for my (private) office wall. nt

is he now renouncing his Jewish faith? It won't matter to his fellow dummies, he's still be one to them.

[JohnnyReb]

If DUmmie thinks God's plan is bad, evolution is even worse....DUmmies would all be dead by now.

[HawkHogan]

Dummies don't understand free will. They also don't understand that this life is a mere stepping stone to eternity. 

I'd rather believe in God, and be wrong...

than deny/mock God, and be wrong...

[blitzkrieg_17]

Even by DU standards this is such a poor quality Bouncy and lacks even the slightest credibility. No rating, just fail.

[GOBUCKS]

DUmmy PCIntern is a terrible bouncy writer. Out of the dozens he's posted, not one is believable.

He writes like an educated version of rsmithnumbers.

[franksolich]

Okay, my theology's a little bit clumsy here, so if I'm wrong on something, someone please correct me.

In the Beginning, God ruled the world.

Then man decided he was as smart, or even smarter, than God.

(And thus the first sin was that of Pride.)

God then said, "Okay, if you think you're so smart, I'm going to let you run the world."

And since then, man has ruled the world while God just sits by, watching but not interfering.

God could interfere if God chooses to, but probably won't until after man realizes he's not as smart as God.

And so the tragedies, the bad things, that occur in this time and place are because man of course is imperfect, and messes up things.  God currently is a non-interfering God, until man learns he's not as smart as God.

[obumazombie]

Okay, my theology's a little bit clumsy here, so if I'm wrong on something, someone please correct me.

In the Beginning, God ruled the world.

Then man decided he was as smart, or even smarter, than God.

(And thus the first sin was that of Pride.)

God then said, "Okay, if you think you're so smart, I'm going to let you run the world."

And since then, man has ruled the world while God just sits by, watching but not interfering.

God could interfere if God chooses to, but probably won't until after man realizes he's not as smart as God.

And so the tragedies, the bad things, that occur in this time and place are because man of course is imperfect, and messes up things.  God currently is a non-interfering God, until man learns he's not as smart as God.

Satan is god of this world (earth).
If I was given a chance to reference the scripture I could.
But Satan can spend a lot of time on the golf course if he wants.
Very often man doesn't need too much help in enabling and imposing evil.

[MrsSmith]

God adopts children, co-heirs with Christ...He doesn't enslave anyone.  The same ones that demand God remove all evil from Earth are the ones that most tightly cling to the evil they like.  Not a one of them considers what God would take from him or her if He removed all evil from Earth and actually made us all puppet-slaves.

[FlaGator]

Response to PCIntern (Original post)Fri Mar 27, 2015, 07:02 AM
Fumesucker (39,859 posts)
2. Epicurus had the essence of it ~2300 years ago

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God?


For me at least it is much more comforting to think there is no God than a malevolent God.

This is a logical fallacy called the false dilemma as explained here (http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/2sof16/the_epicurean_paradox_and_logical_fallacies/) it is also a classic example of circular reasoning and though it gets trotted out by atheists on a regular basis it is totally wrong, It forces a predetermined conclusion like the phrase "have you stopped beating your wife yet.

Now to the question in the OP. Was this God's plan? Well God is in control of every thing and either God caused this to happen or via inaction allowed it to happen. Either way it was an act ordained by God. On the surface this would seem like an evil action but script tells us that all things work to the good of those who love God. What seems evil now will have some positive effect some where down the line. Look at the story of Joseph, sold in to slavery by his brothers, accused of a crime he didn't commit and imprisoned for an indeterminate period of time. Looks like God really has it out for Joseph. However, God gave Joseph the ability it interpret pharaoh's dreams which gets him out of prison, caused pharaoh to declare him prime minister which allows Joseph to save his family during 7 years of famine. Later in the story he tells his brothers not to worry about any retribution because what they did out of evil God intended for good.

Good resulted from an evil act. Never judge God on the basis of events of the moment because we can't see all ends but God can.

[FlippyDoo]

This is a logical fallacy called the false dilemma as explained here (http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/2sof16/the_epicurean_paradox_and_logical_fallacies/) it is also a classic example of circular reasoning and though it gets trotted out by atheists on a regular basis it is totally wrong, It forces a predetermined conclusion like the phrase "have you stopped beating your wife yet.

Now to the question in the OP. Was this God's plan? Well God is in control of every thing and either God caused this to happen or via inaction allowed it to happen. Either way it was an act ordained by God. On the surface this would seem like an evil action but script tells us that all things work to the good of those who love God. What seems evil now will have some positive effect some where down the line. Look at the story of Joseph, sold in to slavery by his brothers, accused of a crime he didn't commit and imprisoned for an indeterminate period of time. Looks like God really has it out for Joseph. However, God gave Joseph the ability it interpret pharaoh's dreams which gets him out of prison, caused pharaoh to declare him prime minister which allows Joseph to save his family during 7 years of famine. Later in the story he tells his brothers not to worry about any retribution because what they did out of evil God intended for good.

Good resulted from an evil act. Never judge God on the basis of events of the moment because we can't see all ends but God can.

My analogy is to walk up to a block wall, place your nose on the wall, and count the blocks you can see while looking straight ahead. Now back away enough that you can see the entire wall and count the blocks you can see.

God is seeing the entire wall. We're just seeing the ones near our nose.

[98ZJUSMC]

Absolutely. The only place you hear the "God's Plan" absolutism to blanket describe anything, is on TV or in movies.  Life, is God's Plan and these little half-wits are pissing in the punch bowl. 


Glad I went back up and read:

Dummies don't understand free will.

They also don't understand that this life is a mere stepping stone to eternity. 

I'd rather believe in God, and be wrong...

than deny/mock God, and be wrong...

Exactly where I was going.  And listen up (D)Ummies, it has consequences.  The whole concept of free will and the consequences thereof, make a mockery of that Epicurean Fallacy.  Besides drooling infants, isn't he an old, dead, white guy?   
 

[Movie buff- The Sequel]

This is a logical fallacy called the false dilemma as explained here (http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/2sof16/the_epicurean_paradox_and_logical_fallacies/) it is also a classic example of circular reasoning and though it gets trotted out by atheists on a regular basis it is totally wrong, It forces a predetermined conclusion like the phrase "have you stopped beating your wife yet.

Now to the question in the OP. Was this God's plan? Well God is in control of every thing and either God caused this to happen or via inaction allowed it to happen. Either way it was an act ordained by God. On the surface this would seem like an evil action but script tells us that all things work to the good of those who love God. What seems evil now will have some positive effect some where down the line. Look at the story of Joseph, sold in to slavery by his brothers, accused of a crime he didn't commit and imprisoned for an indeterminate period of time. Looks like God really has it out for Joseph. However, God gave Joseph the ability it interpret pharaoh's dreams which gets him out of prison, caused pharaoh to declare him prime minister which allows Joseph to save his family during 7 years of famine. Later in the story he tells his brothers not to worry about any retribution because what they did out of evil God intended for good.

Good resulted from an evil act. Never judge God on the basis of events of the moment because we can't see all ends but God can.

Hear, hear! Brilliant refutation of that stupid argument Atheists like to trot out.
For another example of your point, consider what happened with Emmett Till. A little explanation for those who may not have been familiar with this case: In the early days of the Civil Rights movement, Emmett was a black teenager from Chicago who, while visiting his cousin in Mississippi one summer, was brutally murdered (And I must emphasize the term "Brutally": The 'Before' and 'After' pictures of Emmett would turn people's hair white, and even then the 'After' pictures were taken after morticians had the chance to clean up his remains a bit) for trying to flirt with a white woman he didn't know was married. This was obviously a horrific loss for his mother, Mamie Till, who was a devout Christian, yet through her, God used that act of great evil to do great good; In spite of (Or perhaps BECAUSE of) how mutilated Emmett's body was, Mamie insisted he be given an open- casket funeral so everyone could see what was done to her son and what hate brings about. Loads of people came to the funeral, including several newspaper and magazine reporters who took pictures of everything. Those pictures and reports were what first convinced many, many people (Including then- president JFK) that the Civil Rights movement was a truly moral cause, leading to much more support for people like Martin Luther King Jr. and other civil rights activists.
God took a truly horrible, inhuman action, and used it for the greater good of all. He tends to do that quite a bit.

[FlaGator]

Movie Buff and Flippy are spot on. God does what He does for His reasons and for His reason's alone.

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
    neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.

“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
    so are my ways higher than your ways
    and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Isaiah 55:8-9

[Carl]

Gods perfect plan included allowing humans to have free will.
It is not His fault that man used that to reject Him and thus resulting in an imperfect world full of sin.

He also provided redemption for those choosing it.