Author Topic: I Understand Not Holding Grudges, But I For One Do...  (Read 1662 times)

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Offline obumazombie

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I Understand Not Holding Grudges, But I For One Do...
« on: March 19, 2015, 05:45:56 AM »
Not equate holding someone accountable for their actions to be not "forgiving them...

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/cal-thomas/2015/03/17/power-forgiveness-overcomes-racism-university-oklahoma

They should get every consequence they deserve.
I don't think you should pile on or try to maliciously destroy anyone, but washing your hands and dismissing it all with "forgiveness" doesn't seem the best way to me.
Until now I can't think of a time I have disagreed with Cal Thomas though.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: I Understand Not Holding Grudges, But I For One Do...
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2015, 08:25:57 AM »
Not equate holding someone accountable for their actions to be not "forgiving them...

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/cal-thomas/2015/03/17/power-forgiveness-overcomes-racism-university-oklahoma

They should get every consequence they deserve.
I don't think you should pile on or try to maliciously destroy anyone, but washing your hands and dismissing it all with "forgiveness" doesn't seem the best way to me.
Until now I can't think of a time I have disagreed with Cal Thomas though.

There are some who nitpick at every infraction -- Barry's tan suit, his many verbal gaffes which portray him not as the skilled orator that the MSM has insisted he is. (Slow Joe is another case entirely -- that idiot is a certified, card-carrying moron. Ain't no "nitpicking" where Slow Joe is concerned, especially about the idiotic things he routinely says.)

Drunk college kids singing a DUmbass song that happened to have the "n" word in it. Big whoop. Tasteless? Yep. Classless? You bet. Fundamentally racist to the point that their academic "careers" are forever tainted? Wait a minute. That might be going a step too far.

Used to be a time that a local cop would drive you home after you left the bar after hoisting a few too many. Now they throw you in the slammer and toss away the key. You lose your license, your money, and your reputation.

Kids making a gun out of their fingers are expelled from school because their fingers and hand looked like a weapon.

I don't have a problem with accountability, but I happen to concur with Ann Coulter in her column I read this morning -- the little people are held accountable to the nth (no pun intended) degree while the big fish get off scot free. The Hillarys and the Holders and the Barrys and those they are protecting laugh all the way to the bank while they fundamentally rape America.

Nobody holds those ****ers accountable.
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Offline SVPete

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Re: I Understand Not Holding Grudges, But I For One Do...
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2015, 09:01:44 AM »
Stupidity and malice should have consequences, but the consequences should be proportional to the act, not to some faddish level of social hysteria and paranoia about certain acts. Kicking those students out, closing the frat, and banning them and the frat permanently was severely disproportional to their stupidity. Doing it without regard for established procedures and due process is also likely to make what the university did very expensive to OK taxpayers.
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Offline FlaGator

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Re: I Understand Not Holding Grudges, But I For One Do...
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2015, 02:47:57 PM »
Not equate holding someone accountable for their actions to be not "forgiving them...

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/cal-thomas/2015/03/17/power-forgiveness-overcomes-racism-university-oklahoma

They should get every consequence they deserve.
I don't think you should pile on or try to maliciously destroy anyone, but washing your hands and dismissing it all with "forgiveness" doesn't seem the best way to me.
Until now I can't think of a time I have disagreed with Cal Thomas though.

The Christian view of forgiveness and the reasons for it are much different than that of society at large. Christ requires forgiveness because, for one, it frees Christians from any negative emotional bonds we may have with another person. To not forgive is to grant someone other than Christ control of my emotional well being. If there is someone I have a grudge against then each time I encounter that person emotions will be stirred and in some way that gives them control over that aspect of my being. At it's heart, forgiveness is more about the forgiver than the forgivee. It is harder to forgive than it is to accept forgiveness.

When toes are stepped on and feelings hurt there is a cost that must be paid. Look at it like this, a friend backs out of your drive way and damages your gate. You can hold him accountable and have him pay to have it fixed or you can forgive him and send him on his way. You let them off the hook but the gate is still broken. You cannot just leave it broken so it becomes your burdened to pay the cost of the repairs.  In a nut shell that forgiveness is, Accepting the cost incurred by the hurtful action.  This is a simple case but there are more complex ones.

Say someone kills your child and you forgive them. The cost you pay for this forgiveness is that you have to cope with the loss and accept and deal with the pain with no expectation of compensation. You have forgiven the killer for the evil he has done you. However, the state may still hold the murderer accountable because he has also damaged society by removing a potential community asset and buy flaunting the laws which condemn murder.

Christians, I believe, are required to forgive because our faith demands its. Non believers don't have this same burden but the practice of forgiveness offers many of the same benefits as it does believers.

I hope this made sense. It is hard for me to put in to words complex concepts that I understand in my heart.
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Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: I Understand Not Holding Grudges, But I For One Do...
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2015, 09:37:59 PM »
Stupidity and malice should have consequences, but the consequences should be proportional to the act, not to some faddish level of social hysteria and paranoia about certain acts. Kicking those students out, closing the frat, and banning them and the frat permanently was severely disproportional to their stupidity. Doing it without regard for established procedures and due process is also likely to make what the university did very expensive to OK taxpayers.

I have seen hazings gone bad that result in death.  Frats have never been banned outright like for severe hazing like what happened to SAE at OU.

Was it stupid what they did? Yes, but kick them out? Too extreme.

There was also the "house mom" Beauton Gilbow, who sang a rap song with the n-word.

People Protest at Home of Frat Member Behind SAE Racist Chant
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Protest-Planned-at-Home-of-Frat-Member-Behind-SAE-Racist-Chant-295984611.html

Quote
About two dozen protesters marched Wednesday night outside the Dallas home of a former University of Oklahoma fraternity member who was shown in a video chanting a racial slur.

A Dallas-area advocacy group, the Next Generation Action Network, said the peaceful protest was planned at the family home of Parker Rice. Rice has apologized for participating in the chant, which also referenced lynching and indicated black students would never be admitted to OU's chapter of Sigma Alpha Epsilon.

The Rev. Dominique Alexander, who leads the Next Generation Action Network, said protesters wanted to send a message: "We're not going to stand for that."
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Offline obumazombie

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Re: I Understand Not Holding Grudges, But I For One Do...
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2015, 03:03:40 AM »
I probably should have prefaced my comments with the admission that I am aware that as Christians we are to forgive.
My understanding of forgiveness is that it should be offered to anyone who asks for it.
But for someone who is not sorry, and not asking forgiveness, I'm not sure they can be forgiven.
And as for accountability and consequences, those are separate and apart from forgiveness.
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