Author Topic: Ol' Fred thinks it's okay to lie; squabbles with fellow primitives  (Read 2576 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141021541

Oh my.

Quote
alp227 (28,547 posts)   Mon Feb 23, 2015, 09:30 PM

VA Secretary Robert McDonald Falsely Claimed He Served In Special Forces

never mind the rest.....

Quote
mopinko (43,223 posts)   Mon Feb 23, 2015, 09:33 PM

1. he should resign.

like, right now. his ability to do his job just went down the shitter.

Quote
Fred Sanders (10,517 posts)   Mon Feb 23, 2015, 09:52 PM

10. Why? Because he attempted empathy with one down on his luck veteran...really?

Quote
mopinko (43,223 posts)   Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:03 PM

17. vets will have no respect for him.

nor should they. special forces go through some truly harrowing training, and it is a high honor. it's not like saying you were in nam when you were in california.

stolen valor it is called. stolen.

dont think vets wont see it that way. he has deeply insulted a lot of people with that remark.

Quote
TwilightGardener (44,299 posts)   Mon Feb 23, 2015, 09:52 PM

9. How can an abject lie be minor? He was on camera claiming a history

he didn't have--and for the purpose of patronizing a fellow veteran, who was perhaps homeless, but didn't deserve to be fed a line of bullshit like he was a child.

Quote
Fred Sanders (10,517 posts)   Mon Feb 23, 2015, 09:54 PM

11. He claimed no "history".... He was attempting to engage, not mislead anyone....he has an

exemplary and crystal clear service history...tempest in an over sensitive media teapot.

Not like he was repeatedly lying to the world about being in a war zone, or in a helicopter under fire and lied about it repeatedly over years in order to self promote and build up false trust...not even in the same ballpark...sorry, you are wrong.

Quote
TwilightGardener (44,299 posts)   Mon Feb 23, 2015, 09:58 PM

13. Huh? Anyone honorable in the military knows you NEVER claim a service

record, education, or medals/honors you never earned. No, not even to some homeless guy for the purpose of "engaging" him. He could have said, truthfully, "I served in the 82nd Airborne". Why lie, and then keep going with it: "What years (were you in)?"

Quote
Fred Sanders (10,517 posts)   Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:00 PM

14. So...he should....resign?? There was no mention of medals/honours, education, etc.....Context.

Quote
TwilightGardener (44,299 posts)   Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:01 PM

15. Maybe he should. Is the truth flexible for him?

Quote
mopinko (43,223 posts)   Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:06 PM

20. least of all special forces ferchrisakes.

he should resign because this shows how STUPID he is.

i'm not usually that rah rah about such things. but i have a nephew who is just retiring after 30 years in the service, and he went through all that. it aint no sewing circle.

Quote
TwilightGardener (44,299 posts)   Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:10 PM

21. The defense seems to be "well, it was JUST a homeless vet." I mean, THOSE are

the guys you can bullshit, amirite? Even if the homeless man was himself bullshitting about being SF, a cabinet secretary shouldn't.

Quote
Fred Sanders (10,517 posts)   Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:36 PM

25. So it ends. With a strawman.

Quote
Fred Sanders (10,517 posts)   Mon Feb 23, 2015, 09:51 PM

8. He said this in passing to a homeless man? .......so minor as to be laughable.

Quote
ForgoTheConsequence (3,351 posts)   Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:27 PM

23. Because it's totally ok to lie, as long as it's just a homeless person.

Right?

Quote
Fred Sanders (10,517 posts)   Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:40 PM

27. Strawman? Correct?

Quote
arcane1 (27,599 posts)   Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:45 PM

28. To whom must he say it before it counts? Recorded by CBS news, to a homeless man, is ok?

Quote
Jack Rabbit (43,030 posts)   Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:49 PM

29. That can't even be the "least untruthful" approach

It's time for Mr. McDonald to spend more time with his family.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline docstew

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4741
  • Reputation: +282/-187
  • My Wife is awesome!
Re: Ol' Fred thinks it's okay to lie; squabbles with fellow primitives
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2015, 12:15:18 AM »
The oak tree must have had a bumper crop of acorns, because a lot of blind squirrels found a nut.

They're absolutely right. If the VA Secretary lied about his service, something that is easily verified, his credibility with the community he is supposed to serve (i.e. Veterans) is shot. Every vet will look at him and say "He violated his integrity to ingratiate himself with one of us. What other smoke is he going to blow up our (collective) ass?"

Offline 98ZJUSMC

  • The Most Deplorable
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8424
  • Reputation: +436/-76
  • Now, with 99% less yellow!
Re: Ol' Fred thinks it's okay to lie; squabbles with fellow primitives
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2015, 02:46:20 AM »
Quote
Fred Sanders (10,517 posts)   Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:40 PM

27. Strawman? Correct?

Sorry, Derf.  You don't understand the concept.
              

Liberal thinking is a two-legged stool and magical thinking is one of the legs, the other is a combination of self-loating and misanthropy.  To understand it, you would have to be able to sit on that stool while juggling two elephants, an anvil and a fragmentation grenade, sans pin.

"Accuse others of what you do." - Karl Marx

Offline obumazombie

  • Siege engine to lib fortresses
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21814
  • Reputation: +1661/-578
  • Last of the great minorities
Re: Ol' Fred thinks it's okay to lie; squabbles with fellow primitives
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2015, 11:04:44 AM »
If Fred can't get anyone to agree with him that it's okay to lie about being in Special Forces, he should just start calling them all racist.
There were only two options for gender. At last count there are at least 12, according to libs. By that standard, I'm a male lesbian.

Offline DumbAss Tanker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28493
  • Reputation: +1710/-151
Re: Ol' Fred thinks it's okay to lie; squabbles with fellow primitives
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2015, 11:34:45 AM »
Thanks, Fred, for showing even the clueless moonbats what a stupid piece of trash you are.
Go and tell the Spartans, O traveler passing by
That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice.

Offline Tucker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10937
  • Reputation: +540/-97
  • Making money the old fashioned way- Paid Mole
Re: Ol' Fred thinks it's okay to lie; squabbles with fellow primitives
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2015, 12:30:49 PM »
Quote
Fred Sanders (10,542 posts)


Not like he was repeatedly lying to the world about being in a war zone, or in a helicopter under fire

Nobody bit on that one regarding the hildabeast or the other moonbat, Williams. DUmmy's are slipping.
Come to think of it, unions do create jobs. Companies have to hire two workers to do the work of one.

Offline SVPete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29417
  • Reputation: +3251/-248
Re: Ol' Fred thinks it's okay to lie; squabbles with fellow primitives
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2015, 01:21:45 PM »
This life-long civilian cannot understand why a guy who served in the 82nd Airborne and graduated from Ranger School had to lie. Why couldn't he have said something like, "Yeah, I graduated from Ranger School"?
If The Vaccine is deadly as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, millions now living would have died.

Offline freedumb2003b

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6055
  • Reputation: +824/-72
Re: Ol' Fred thinks it's okay to lie; squabbles with fellow primitives
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2015, 01:34:34 PM »
Quote
elias49 (2,495 posts)
32. I agree Fred.

He was communicating with another human being. Empathizing.
More people should try it.
I DO get tired of the self-righteousness of some posters.
"He lied!!" - regardless of details, nuance.
"He broke a law" - despite a greater good.

Sanctimony

The left in a single post:  lies="nuance" lawbreaking="greater good"

Thanks eliasnumbers for speaking the truth defending liberal lying.

As Coach has said time and time again -- liberals lie.  All the time.  Even when they don't have to.

From the mouths of babes...
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an ax

Hello to the Baizuo lurkers from DU, DI, JPR and Huffpo

DUmmies can no more understand the "Cave" than a rat can understand a thunderbolt, but they fear it just the same. Fear the "Cave", DUmmies. Fear it well. Big Dog 12-Jan-2015

Proud charter member of the Death Squad Hate Force! https://conservativecave.com/home/index.php?topic=112331.msg1386168#msg1386168

Ted Kennedy is the only person with an actual confirmed kill in the war on women.

Offline docstew

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4741
  • Reputation: +282/-187
  • My Wife is awesome!
Re: Ol' Fred thinks it's okay to lie; squabbles with fellow primitives
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2015, 02:25:15 PM »
This life-long civilian cannot understand why a guy who served in the 82nd Airborne and graduated from Ranger School had to lie. Why couldn't he have said something like, "Yeah, I graduated from Ranger School"?

As a long-term member of the Armed Services, I agree. That right there would be better than claiming to be SF, although I'll at least give him credit for actually apologizing for lying and not saying "I'm sorry if you were offended by my lie".

Offline obumazombie

  • Siege engine to lib fortresses
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21814
  • Reputation: +1661/-578
  • Last of the great minorities
Re: Ol' Fred thinks it's okay to lie; squabbles with fellow primitives
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2015, 06:34:14 PM »
As a long-term member of the Armed Services, I agree. That right there would be better than claiming to be SF, although I'll at least give him credit for actually apologizing for lying and not saying "I'm sorry if you were offended by my lie".

To me Rangers, Special Forces, SEALS, and some others are all on an even par with respect to being elite forces.
There were only two options for gender. At last count there are at least 12, according to libs. By that standard, I'm a male lesbian.

Offline Delmar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5295
  • Reputation: +592/-41
Re: Ol' Fred thinks it's okay to lie; squabbles with fellow primitives
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2015, 07:23:49 PM »
If he was lying, then he would have fooled me.  I always thought Airborne Rangers were special forces.  If Airborne Rangers aren't special forces, then who are?
We will make America strong again. We will make America proud again. We will make America safe again. And we will make America great again.

Donald Trump

Offline thundley4

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40571
  • Reputation: +2224/-127
Re: Ol' Fred thinks it's okay to lie; squabbles with fellow primitives
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2015, 07:43:49 PM »
If he was lying, then he would have fooled me.  I always thought Airborne Rangers were special forces.  If Airborne Rangers aren't special forces, then who are?

I'm sort of confused on the whole thing too.

Offline freedumb2003b

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6055
  • Reputation: +824/-72
Re: Ol' Fred thinks it's okay to lie; squabbles with fellow primitives
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2015, 09:17:16 PM »
If he was lying, then he would have fooled me.  I always thought Airborne Rangers were special forces.  If Airborne Rangers aren't special forces, then who are?

I think he meant:
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an ax

Hello to the Baizuo lurkers from DU, DI, JPR and Huffpo

DUmmies can no more understand the "Cave" than a rat can understand a thunderbolt, but they fear it just the same. Fear the "Cave", DUmmies. Fear it well. Big Dog 12-Jan-2015

Proud charter member of the Death Squad Hate Force! https://conservativecave.com/home/index.php?topic=112331.msg1386168#msg1386168

Ted Kennedy is the only person with an actual confirmed kill in the war on women.

Offline docstew

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4741
  • Reputation: +282/-187
  • My Wife is awesome!
Re: Ol' Fred thinks it's okay to lie; squabbles with fellow primitives
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2015, 09:42:01 PM »
If he was lying, then he would have fooled me.  I always thought Airborne Rangers were special forces.  If Airborne Rangers aren't special forces, then who are?

It's actually somewhat complicated, and depends alot on the unit of assignment.
Any Soldier can attend the US Army Ranger School, which is basically an advanced infantry course. For some career fields, such as infantry, it is almost a prerequisite for advancement. Those who graduate from Ranger School earn the right to wear the Ranger tab, designating their successful completion of a course that, even if you finish all tasks, you can still fail if your peers wouldn't want to work with you (aka being peered out). These so-called "tabbed" Soldiers are able to be assigned anywhere in the Army, from the 82nd Airborne to 1st Armor Division. Frequently, they are also graduates of the US Army Basic Airborne Course, which would make them Airborne Rangers. These Soldiers are NOT part of US Army Special Operations Command (USASOC), and are not considered to be Special Operations.
There is also the 75th Ranger Regiment, which is assigned to USASOC, and therefore technically are Special Operations. Not all members of this unit are "tabbed", but they are all Airborne qualified and are referred to as Rangers by other members of the Regiment, as in Ranger Smith vs Private Smith.

What the VA Secretary claimed was that he was part of USASOC, when in fact he was tabbed and in the 82nd. The 82nd, while Airborne qualified, is part of Forces Command, not USASOC. It is a highly technical distinction that means worlds to vets. It is also why I will say "I'm a jumpmaster in the 82nd Airborne, and I know people in Special Forces." I will not claim to be SF myself.

Offline Big Dog

  • ^^Smokes cigars and knows things.
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15581
  • Reputation: +1954/-213
Re: Ol' Fred thinks it's okay to lie; squabbles with fellow primitives
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2015, 10:02:52 PM »
It's actually somewhat complicated, and depends alot on the unit of assignment.
Any Soldier can attend the US Army Ranger School, which is basically an advanced infantry course. For some career fields, such as infantry, it is almost a prerequisite for advancement. Those who graduate from Ranger School earn the right to wear the Ranger tab, designating their successful completion of a course that, even if you finish all tasks, you can still fail if your peers wouldn't want to work with you (aka being peered out). These so-called "tabbed" Soldiers are able to be assigned anywhere in the Army, from the 82nd Airborne to 1st Armor Division. Frequently, they are also graduates of the US Army Basic Airborne Course, which would make them Airborne Rangers. These Soldiers are NOT part of US Army Special Operations Command (USASOC), and are not considered to be Special Operations.
There is also the 75th Ranger Regiment, which is assigned to USASOC, and therefore technically are Special Operations. Not all members of this unit are "tabbed", but they are all Airborne qualified and are referred to as Rangers by other members of the Regiment, as in Ranger Smith vs Private Smith.

What the VA Secretary claimed was that he was part of USASOC, when in fact he was tabbed and in the 82nd. The 82nd, while Airborne qualified, is part of Forces Command, not USASOC. It is a highly technical distinction that means worlds to vets. It is also why I will say "I'm a jumpmaster in the 82nd Airborne, and I know people in Special Forces." I will not claim to be SF myself.

Hooah.

McDonald didn't claim to be part of SOCOM. He claimed to have served in the Special Forces.

He was commissioned with the USMA class of 1975. He resigned his commission in 1980, seven years before SOCOM was stood up. During his period of service, Special Forces was Special Forces. Green berets and SF tabs. Airborne wasn't SF. Rangers weren't SF.

McDonald lied, plain and simple. His apology is weak shit, too.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 09:10:39 AM by Big Dog »
Government is the negation of liberty.
  -Ludwig von Mises

CAVE FVROREM PATIENTIS.

Offline Big Dog

  • ^^Smokes cigars and knows things.
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15581
  • Reputation: +1954/-213
Re: Ol' Fred thinks it's okay to lie; squabbles with fellow primitives
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2015, 10:07:23 PM »
Quote
Fred Sanders

10. Why? Because he attempted empathy with one down on his luck veteran...really?

No, you ****ing intestinal parasite. Because he faked empathy with a Veteran by lying.


Government is the negation of liberty.
  -Ludwig von Mises

CAVE FVROREM PATIENTIS.

Offline Karin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17752
  • Reputation: +1895/-81
Re: Ol' Fred thinks it's okay to lie; squabbles with fellow primitives
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2015, 02:24:04 PM »
Quote
Fred Sanders (10,517 posts)   Mon Feb 23, 2015, 09:54 PM

11. He claimed no "history".... He was attempting to engage

So lying = attempting to engage.  We've said for years that DUmmies lie, they lie all the time.  I'm convinced this extends to all democraticks and liberals.  It's why I don't keep any as friends.  Anybody who finds it so easy to lie, I don't want anything to do with.  Nothing but trouble.