Author Topic: anti-lock brakes  (Read 2712 times)

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Offline franksolich

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anti-lock brakes
« on: February 01, 2015, 07:45:31 PM »
<<<is no automotive mechanic.

The Oldsmobile I currently drive has "anti-lock" brakes, and is probably the first vehicle I've had with such a thing (I don't really pay attention, but brake jobs on previous vehicles were always cheap, so I assume they weren't anti-lock brakes).

Obviously, there's a difference between the way anti-lock brakes and non-anti-lock brakes work.

I've had this particular car since last September, and to be honest, I haven't noticed any difference.

What is it that I'm supposed to look for, to "feel" the difference?

I need to point out that in driving manner, I drive in such a way as to minimize the use of brakes, a "luxury" I enjoy simply because I live out where highway and town traffic is nil to nothing.  But I was that way in Omaha and Lincoln too.

Offline Bad Dog

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Re: anti-lock brakes
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2015, 07:52:58 PM »
<<<is no automotive mechanic.

The Oldsmobile I currently drive has "anti-lock" brakes, and is probably the first vehicle I've had with such a thing (I don't really pay attention, but brake jobs on previous vehicles were always cheap, so I assume they weren't anti-lock brakes).

Obviously, there's a difference between the way anti-lock brakes and non-anti-lock brakes work.

I've had this particular car since last September, and to be honest, I haven't noticed any difference.

What is it that I'm supposed to look for, to "feel" the difference?

I need to point out that in driving manner, I drive in such a way as to minimize the use of brakes, a "luxury" I enjoy simply because I live out where highway and town traffic is nil to nothing.  But I was that way in Omaha and Lincoln too.
\

That is why you haven't noticed them.  If you want to see if they are working, just hit the brakes hard as if in a panic stop.  You should feel the brakes pulsing rapidly through the pedal and perhaps even the chassis.  This should be very easy as you probably have plenty of ice around right now unlike glorious Texas where I seriously contemplated wearing shorts today.

Offline franksolich

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Re: anti-lock brakes
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2015, 07:57:50 PM »
That is why you haven't noticed them.  If you want to see if they are working, just hit the brakes hard as if in a panic stop.  You should feel the brakes pulsing rapidly through the pedal and perhaps even the chassis.  This should be very easy as you probably have plenty of ice around right now unlike glorious Texas where I seriously contemplated wearing shorts today.

Thanks, sir; I'll try that tonight, to see what I notice.

You're right about conditions around here, but I'll find a safe place to do it.

Offline franksolich

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Re: anti-lock brakes
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2015, 10:06:16 AM »

I'd hoped to, but I didn't try them last night.

i never came across a stretch of the highway where it'd be safe to abruptly slam on the brakes so i could "feel" what it feels like.

Maybe later this week, and in the daytime, after which I'll report back here.


Offline obumazombie

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Re: anti-lock brakes
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2015, 12:28:50 PM »

I'd hoped to, but I didn't try them last night.

i never came across a stretch of the highway where it'd be safe to abruptly slam on the brakes so i could "feel" what it feels like.

Maybe later this week, and in the daytime, after which I'll report back here.

Anti locks will work on any surface. A nice stretch of straight level dirt road at a slower speed will be a less risky test.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: anti-lock brakes
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2015, 01:47:31 PM »
I disabled the antilock brakes on my 92 FORD truck. The damn things almost caused me to have an accident several times on wet pavement. When I would hit the brakes they wouldn't work, it was like the power brakes weren't working, like you might as well put your foot up against a brick wall. I took notice the first time it happened and made damn sure I didn't pump the brakes, still happened three or four more times. I disabled them and no more close calls.

A large company I did business with at that time had a fleet of FORD trucks and they had had brake troubles too. Their drivers had complained about the brakes and 2 or 3 had had accidents that they blamed on the antilock brakes. They disabled the antilock brakes on all their trucks.

I remember when the government first required antilock brakes on semi trucks, "747 brake system". Most truck drivers wound up disabling them until they finally got the system operating correctly. In the early days, semi's had an air valve on the dash where you could disable the front wheel brakes when the highway was wet. Then the government required that done away with so truck manufactures stopped putting brakes on the steering axle.....well, you know the government, they know more than you and they never drove a truck so they required brakes and the manufactures put them back on the trucks. Drivers would back off on the adjustments so that they didn't work.....and along came Uncle Sam with more rules, they had to be in adjustment/working or else they would fine you and park the truck.

Sorry folks, I got carried away. I have driven a lot of things with little or no brakes and if it comes to a choice between being able to go or stop....I'll take stopping and walk the rest of the way.
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Offline catsmtrods

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Re: anti-lock brakes
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2015, 03:07:44 PM »
Anti lock brakes are for numb skulls who cant drive.
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Offline franksolich

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Re: anti-lock brakes
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2015, 06:15:40 PM »
Anti lock brakes are for numb skulls who can't drive.

Essentially, that's what that long-ago article in that engineering journal that I read, said.  But of course since it was a professional publication, I didn't grasp any "whys" of it.

So, anyway, as Bad Dog pointed out, probably it's because I rarely brake, that I haven't noticed any difference.  Remember, I have a "luxury" that most people don't; that of having a whole entire road to myself.

It's supposed to be bitterly cold, and the roads remaining icy here, for the next few days.  I'll take an opportunity to see then.....but during the day.  It struck me last night that in the darkness, on an isolated highway, trying this might not be such a good idea.  Best to try it in daylight.

Offline franksolich

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Re: anti-lock brakes
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2015, 06:24:44 PM »
I have driven a lot of things with little or no brakes and if it comes to a choice between being able to go or stop....I'll take stopping and walk the rest of the way.

I learned to drive when I was 14 years old, using a Korean War-vintage Army surplus jeep older than I was.  It was used at the drive-in movie theater where I worked, way out of town on the side of a big hill.  It was kept outdoors, never sheltered, and one can imagine what sort of shape it was in; it was more rust than metal.

Manual transmission.

Every spring, after it'd sat outside all winter, it was a lot of work to get it going again.

No brakes, and I drove that thing up and down hills, into ditches and ravines, off of drop-offs (I didn't dare put it on any road, as I was too young to be driving it).

Others who worked there--usually one or two years older than myself--thought for sure I was going to break my neck, despite that I drove it like a little old lady.

The "no brakes" on the jeep is probably why I evolved into a driver who decades later likes to avoid using the brakes, even on good cars. 

Offline franksolich

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Re: anti-lock brakes
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2015, 11:37:49 PM »
Okay, here it is, Monday evening, about 9:30 p.m., and bitterly cold--but no wind or new snow.

I had to drive to town to pick up a package of cigarettes, and decided to see what happens if one slams on the anti-lock brakes.  Of course it's dark as midnight and all that, but there's other people out and around, in case I did something stupid.

Seriously, I'm not being silly here; I've had this car since last September and never noticed if the anti-lock brakes worked different from the old brakes.  I'm not kidding when I say I use brakes only very rarely, having already anticipated what's ahead of me.....easy to do when the land ahead's wide open and nobody there.

The highway to town was snow-packed over ice, not having been ploughed yet, but traffic during the day had tamped down the snow pretty good.

I abruptly slammed on the brakes three times on my way to town.

The vehicle stopped, lurched forward several feet, and then came to a complete stop.

That was at 25 mph.

I'm now confused.  How are anti-lock brakes supposed to make me safer?

It's true that even with the old-style brakes, on slick surfaces one might slide or "fan-tail," or even do a complete spin-about, but one always anticipated that, and blessed with lightning-fast reflexes, adjusted for it.

It's a good thing I did this, before I had to "learn" about that lurching forward the hard way.

Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: anti-lock brakes
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2015, 06:01:24 AM »

I'm now confused.  How are anti-lock brakes supposed to make me safer?


You greedy rethuglican, just think of how many tax paying jobs that little item created that not only saves DUmmie lives but funds their kids who grow up to vote democrat.

Seriously, your brakes are working as required by some government DUmbass. Now, try pumping the brake peddle a few times and then stomp on the brakes. You may find you don't have brakes after that.
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Offline franksolich

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Re: anti-lock brakes
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2015, 01:42:14 PM »
Seriously, your brakes are working as required by some government DUmbass. Now, try pumping the brake peddle a few times and then stomp on the brakes. You may find you don't have brakes after that.

Seriously?  Just how is that safer for anybody, the stopping, lurching ahead, then finally stopping?

Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: anti-lock brakes
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2015, 01:46:36 PM »
Seriously?  Just how is that safer for anybody, the stopping, lurching ahead, then finally stopping?
I have no idea. You'll have to ask the government dumbasses.
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Offline franksolich

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Re: anti-lock brakes
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2015, 02:01:56 PM »
I have no idea. You'll have to ask the government dumbasses.

Hmmmm.

When I go pay my bill at the local gasoline station, I'm going to ask my mechanic about this.

According to wikipedia, anti-lock brakes have "significantly reduced rear-end collisions."

How is this possible, when the length required for coming to a complete stop is 27+% more, than with standard brakes?

I suppose the effectiveness depends upon the individual style of driving, my own being virtually brakeless, those in crowded areas being the foot at all times ready to hit the pedal.

Offline obumazombie

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Re: anti-lock brakes
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2015, 03:14:45 PM »
Hmmmm.

When I go pay my bill at the local gasoline station, I'm going to ask my mechanic about this.

According to wikipedia, anti-lock brakes have "significantly reduced rear-end collisions."

How is this possible, when the length required for coming to a complete stop is 27+% more, than with standard brakes?

I suppose the effectiveness depends upon the individual style of driving, my own being virtually brakeless, those in crowded areas being the foot at all times ready to hit the pedal.

According to test conditions, anti locks will stop a car in a shorter distance and allow it to still have maneuver ability. Without ABS or anti skid you lose your ability to steer once the brakes lock.

I'm sure that test conditions are closest to ideal to make the anti locks look better.
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Offline Bad Dog

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Re: anti-lock brakes
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2015, 03:39:13 PM »
According to test conditions, anti locks will stop a car in a shorter distance and allow it to still have maneuver ability. Without ABS or anti skid you lose your ability to steer once the brakes lock.

I'm sure that test conditions are closest to ideal to make the anti locks look better.

I have them on my car and have tested them with no problems such as the coach experienced.  I learned proper braking technique a long time ago to prevent locking up but no human can modulate as effectively as a properly operating ABS system.  Of course, as the coach understands, avoiding situations where you have to panic stop is the real secret.  Since avoidance and effective braking technique are mysteries to my significant other, I appreciate this system on our car.

Offline franksolich

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Re: anti-lock brakes
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2015, 03:43:02 PM »
Of course, as the coach understands, avoiding situations where you have to panic stop is the real secret.

Thank you, sir; I consider that a compliment.

Offline J P Sousa

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Re: anti-lock brakes
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2015, 04:02:39 PM »
I have to chuckle at this thread remembering my first car with anti-lock and my wife's first experience.

One morning after a snow storm she excitedly told me about how she put the brakes on while on a hill coming to a stop sign. The car stopped short of the intersection but the pedal vibrated very fast and scared her. Yep, those are anti-lock brakes.  :-)
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Offline catsmtrods

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Re: anti-lock brakes
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2015, 07:58:28 PM »
I have them on my car and have tested them with no problems such as the coach experienced.  I learned proper braking technique a long time ago to prevent locking up but no human can modulate as effectively as a properly operating ABS system.  Of course, as the coach understands, avoiding situations where you have to panic stop is the real secret.  Since avoidance and effective braking technique are mysteries to my significant other, I appreciate this system on our car.

I dis agree on this statement. I have been a professional truck driver with liquid Hazardous load in the northeast for some 20 years and a service tech in a van for 19 more and as far as I'm concerned you can take ABS and shove them where the sun don't shine! If you know how to drive your ABS is in your foot and it works better! Much better!
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