My Encounter w/ Baptist Minister Who Refused to Acknowledge Biblical

[txradioguy]

My thoughts too. I assumed Christians were more concerned with the New Testament than the Old.

We are.  It's the Progressives and Athiests (redundant I know) that like to focus on the Old Testament as a means of morally equivacating Christians with Radical Islam. 


The only time you'll see Progressives refer to the New Testament is when they try to tell us Jesus was a Socialist.

[SVPete]

Nice bouncy DUmmie. Who brings a Ipad to Church? 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026083857

Yep, it's almost certainly a bouncy fabricated by some one who probably doesn't know a theologically conservative Baptist (I'm not even sure if a theologically liberal minister from the liberal American Baptist Convention is that dumb).

As for your latter question, Mrs. SVPete uses her iPad at church to take notes of the sermon, and I do the same with a Samsung Galaxy Tab. What can I say? the "SV" in my forum name refers to the Silicon Valley where we live.

[SVPete]

St. Paul also condemns homosexuality as an abomination in both Romans and Corinthians (That's off the top of my head, but I believe those are the two books). 

Liberal Christians claim that St. Paul perverted the teachings of Jesus, and since Jesus never openly condemned homosexuality in the Bible, it is acceptable.

Romans chapter 1 and 1 Corinthians chapter 6, FWIW, but he doesn't call for the death penalty for homosexuals. Instead, in the latter passage, he commented, "and such were some of you". Not that a Lib/Prog would find that "were" any more palatable.

Libs & Progs and theological liberals love the Sermon on the Mount for the "Beatitudes", the "Golden Rule", and their favorite all-time Bible passage, "Judge not ...". They miss the passage, right after the "Beatitudes" where Jesus affirms the rightness of the Law of Moses, including his condemnations of homosexuality as an abomination (Moses took a dim view of fornication and adultery as well, though Libs & Progs conveniently forget this in discussing the ancient Israeli justice system's penalty for homosexuality ... which could only be applied if there were two or more witnesses).

[SVPete]

Once again this misunderstanding raises it ugly head.

First of all the Israelites where to be a holy society and theocracy that was to remain ritually pure. The stoning was the ultimate punishment, not the only punishment and it was only to be done so that the society could maintain it's purity. The killing was to remove the habitual defilers of God's law from the group. Exile was also practiced. Also, anyone who didn't think they could live under the rules were allowed to leave.

Secondly, these punishments were only decreed after a trial that used the rules God set forth for judging innocence or guilt. Stoning was not a spontaneous act of mob retribution. 

Thirdly, these punishments weren't meant to be applied to those outside of Hebrew society. When Christ came He understood that Christians would not be living in a theocracy and would be subject to the social rules of the societies they lived in. What Jesus taught in the Sermon on the Mount and in other places was how Christians were to behave with each other and in the world in general. Paul elaborated on this in Romans 13. They only time that Christians are allowed to disobey the laws of the land is when those laws stand in opposition to Jesus' commands.

If I could I'd give you more than one H-5! Accurately and well stated! And unlike me, succinctly as well.

[SVPete]

Wed Jan 14, 2015, 09:39 AM
CBGLuthier (10,886 posts)
1. I always love stories like this

I'm pretty certain they never happen except in the storyteller's heads but I still love them.

A bouncy has to be pretty pathetic for it to be called out as such by DU-folk!

[BlueStateSaint]

Not to defend the DUmmie in any way shape or form, but I have the bible on my tablet and use it at church...I see a lot of people at the church I attend here using their tablets for that purpose.

That being said this is another predictable cherry picked Biblical reference that Progressives like to use to try and catch Christians in a "gotcha" moment.

Funny how they never reference Jesus driving the tax collectors from the gate in Jerusulem.

IN sort, what the DUmmies know about the Bible and being a Christian wouldn't fill a thimble.

People in both our Contemporary and Traditional Choirs use iPads for their music.  I'm getting one soon.  It'll replace the tote bag that seems to gather more garbage than music.

[the county]

Shoot, sissyk came and locked the thread.

Response to benz380 (Reply #22)

Wed Jan 14, 2015, 04:08 PM

 1bigdude (29 posts)

48. I'll make this same offer to you, BENZ380. If you'd like, PM me and I'll provide his name and


contact number, and you can verify. The only catch is that you agree to post here on DU that the account is indeed true! Can't be any more fair than that, no?

https://newspring.cc/pastors

this guy needs their trolling tips:

but he said "Baptist" - where's Sal?: http://www.firstnorth.org/about/staff

[obumazombie]

I still have trouble with this concept, but all sin is equally offensive to God.
Murder and fornication are equally offensive.
The biggest sin in human eyes is just as offensive to God as the smallest.
Lest anyone think they are better or more holy than any other.

[Gwitness]

My thoughts too. I assumed Christians were more concerned with the New Testament than the Old.

  We use the OT as a history book...it helps to understand the whats and whys of the NT...that said....Leviticus and all Levitical laws were for Jews in a given time period...Christians were never under that law.

[FlaGator]

  We use the OT as a history book...it helps to understand the whats and whys of the NT...that said....Leviticus and all Levitical laws were for Jews in a given time period...Christians were never under that law.

Christians are to abide by the moral laws of the Old Testament, but because we have been saved by Christ's death and resurrection we will not be held accountable for our failures. We willingly abide by the moral laws out of a desire to demonstrate our love of Jesus. The moral laws of Leviticus still apply to us but the ritual laws are no longer necessary because we don't sacrifice any more. Christ was the ultimate sacrifice. Neither do we abide by the laws that set the Hebrews apart from the other nations (dietary laws, laws defining the make of clothing, etc).

The Old Testament is also more than a history book. Most importantly it teaches us the character of God and demonstrates for us the depths of man's fall. It shows us our need for Jesus and why His sacrifice was a necessary action.

[SVPete]

Christians are to abide by the moral laws of the Old Testament, but because we have been saved by Christ's death and resurrection we will not be held accountable for our failures. We willingly abide by the moral laws out of a desire to demonstrate our love of Jesus. The moral laws of Leviticus still apply to us but the ritual laws are no longer necessary because we don't sacrifice any more. Christ was the ultimate sacrifice. Neither do we abide by the laws that set the Hebrews apart from the other nations (dietary laws, laws defining the make of clothing, etc).

The Old Testament is also more than a history book. Most importantly it teaches us the character of God and demonstrates for us the depths of man's fall. It shows us our need for Jesus and why His sacrifice was a necessary action.

The criminal, civil, and ceremonial laws of the Torah, in this case, capital punishment for homosexual acts, were specifically for the ancient nation of Israel. But the moral foundation of that law is true for all humans. Similarly, while the laws that would/should have made capital punishment rare in the ancient nation of Israel - having to do with burden of proof, to use the modern term - are also specific to Israel, their foundational wisdom (what we call "proof beyond a reasonable doubt") is true, generally.

[FlaGator]

The criminal, civil, and ceremonial laws of the Torah, in this case, capital punishment for homosexual acts, were specifically for the ancient nation of Israel. But the moral foundation of that law is true for all humans. Similarly, while the laws that would/should have made capital punishment rare in the ancient nation of Israel - having to do with burden of proof, to use the modern term - are also specific to Israel, their foundational wisdom (what we call "proof beyond a reasonable doubt") is true, generally.

I believe that the criminal laws, for the most part, are in line with the moral laws. The punishments for the laws, however, are not bound to the moral laws out side the Hebrew society. Homosexuality was wrong under the Torah and is wrong when viewed through the lens of Christianity. Hebrew society could punish the violation with death, Christians however are taught to seek to forgive homosexuals and encourage them to repent. If they choice not to repent then punishment, if any, is left in the hands of God.

The whole concept of love you enemy is, in my opinion, based around the idea of letting God deal with punishment for moral sins that are not addressed by social laws. This does not mean that a society can't choose to punish crimes that it feels violate its social order.

The whole area of what Christians can and can't do can be confusing. I believe that God would want Christians to encourage society not to implement the death penalty on homosexuals for the fact that they are homosexuals like we are to encourage society to have laws that make abortions illegal.

Most of this is just my opinion derived from reading scripture and using scripture as something that provides examples of God's desires. I try not to introduce my own feelings in to things because I am a fallible human but sometimes it is hard to be completely unbiased.

[thundley4]

ISIS just killed two gays by throwing them from the roof of a building.

[CC27]

ISIS just killed two gays by throwing them from the roof of a building.

DUmmies should go over to Iraq and chain themselves to a oil barrel to protest that. I will buy the plane tickets

[HawkHogan]

Romans chapter 1 and 1 Corinthians chapter 6, FWIW, but he doesn't call for the death penalty for homosexuals. Instead, in the latter passage, he commented, "and such were some of you". Not that a Lib/Prog would find that "were" any more palatable.

Libs & Progs and theological liberals love the Sermon on the Mount for the "Beatitudes", the "Golden Rule", and their favorite all-time Bible passage, "Judge not ...". They miss the passage, right after the "Beatitudes" where Jesus affirms the rightness of the Law of Moses, including his condemnations of homosexuality as an abomination (Moses took a dim view of fornication and adultery as well, though Libs & Progs conveniently forget this in discussing the ancient Israeli justice system's penalty for homosexuality ... which could only be applied if there were two or more witnesses).

I just think it's interesting that progressive Christian try and pretend that homosexuality is acceptable when St. Paul explicitly condemns in the New Testament.

Sadly, the progressive Christian and Catholics are given hope by some of the statements by Pope Francis.

[FlaGator]

I just think it's interesting that progressive Christian try and pretend that homosexuality is acceptable when St. Paul explicitly condemns in the New Testament.

Sadly, the progressive Christian and Catholics are given hope by some of the statements by Pope Francis.

but, but, but Paul was talking about men who are not homosexual having homosexual relationship not true homosexuals expressing their love for each other 

[MrsSmith]

   
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 

For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.  Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. 
Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,bring filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

There just isn't enough wiggle-room in there to support the "not true homosexuals" idea.  They have to ignore and warp Scripture dramatically to manage that "interpretation," or more accurately, "spin."  They've spun it until it's upside down, spun it into a lie.  But doesn't the end of that quote describe the left to a T?  Haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents...unmerciful.  Every word fits the DUmmies perfectly.

[SVPete]

I just think it's interesting that progressive Christian try and pretend that homosexuality is acceptable when St. Paul explicitly condemns in the New Testament.

Sadly, the progressive Christian and Catholics are given hope by some of the statements by Pope Francis.

Theological liberals do not recognize the Bible as having any authority: they eschew Moses and Paul; they treat Jesus' teachings like a buffet table - picking what they want and ignoring the rest (e.g. my example of the Sermon on the Mount).

"Progressive Evangelicals" view Moses much the same, and come to pretty much the same view Paul, but by a different route. They think Paul hijacked Christianity, so they claim to focus on what Jesus taught (aka "Red Letter Christians"). They still treat jesus' teachings like a buffet table, but, so far, they take a little more than theological liberals.

I don't know enough to comment on things said by Pope Francis, but I'd take anything and everything the MSM say he said with a big block of salt. The MSM don't care enough about him or Catholics to be accurate, let alone understand what he says.

[SVPete]

There just isn't enough wiggle-room in there to support the "not true homosexuals" idea.  They have to ignore and warp Scripture dramatically to manage that "interpretation," or more accurately, "spin."  They've spun it until it's upside down, spun it into a lie.  ...

You just described what the Metropolitan Community Church does rather well. Then there's how they pretzellate David and Jonathan's friendship ...

[HawkHogan]

but, but, but Paul was talking about men who are not homosexual having homosexual relationship not true homosexuals expressing their love for each other 

Haha. I've read that interpretation on a liberal site. It's comical.
Sadly I went to a Jesuit school where many students and faculty and priest subscribed to these bs interpretations.

[landofconfusion80]

ugh.... the topic of gays is completely pointless.  something like 1.8% of the male population identifies as gay.  There are so few of them that the discussion really has no bearing on anything. 

As a very wise preacher used to say:

God loves you just the way you are
            -Mr. Rogers

Drive liberals nuts, don't wallow in their filth, rise above the argument and show some grace.