Warren Stupidity: How the liberal left loses the arguement...

[dutch508]

This should be good:

Warren Stupidity (41,109 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026082548

How the liberal left loses the argument. Ceding criticism of Islam to the Right.

What we have seen since the massacre in Paris, we have seen before. The liberal left, out of a valid concern that the reaction to these attacks will result in an increase in anti-muslim sentiment, closes ranks and starts to reject all criticism of Islam, and in doing so cedes the field to the Right, which of course takes the opportunity to use the justifiable anger at yet another massacre to generate exactly the anti-muslim xenophobic over-reaction the liberal left was trying to avoid.

It reminds me of how, during WW2, the left closed ranks and defended any criticism of Hitler and the Nazis...until June 1941 that is...

For example, the numerous claims from the left that "these were not real muslims", a claim that is devoid of any credibility, drown out the legitimate criticism that these were in fact Islamic jihadists, acting out of their convictions that they were doing the right thing according to their religious beliefs. The typical low information citizen, hearing from the liberal left the ridiculous claims that "these were not real muslims", rejects that nonsense outright. This same citizen is hearing at the same time, from the right, that all muslims must be held accountable, that the muslim immigrant communities are all suspect, that the solution is to crack down on the "others" to "cleanse the nation", and that citizen is not hearing a reasonable rebuttal of those claims, is instead hearing patent nonsense.

The low information voter- being anyone who doesn't agree lock-step with the leftists, can usually tell when the Barry Bunch is blowing smoke up their collective asses.

The consequences can in fact be very serious. By holding on to its well intentioned but misguided and perhaps most importantly obviously false claim that these attacks are not religiously motivated, that there is no problem with Islam, the left loses all credibility. The right's arguments are not so clearly specious, even though their motivation is. The attackers were of course muslims. The attackers obviously were motivated by their religious beliefs. The unsubstantiated (and quite wrong) leap that they represent all muslims is the untruth, but it is not nearly as obviously a flawed claim as the "not real muslims" claim, and it is surrounded by claims that are true: the attackers were muslims, the attackers were motivated by their religious beliefs. Framed this way, this is an argument that the right is going to win. And the left, always on the defense, accepts the framing, closes ranks, makes a counter argument that is patently false, and loses.

The right goes out of it's way to explain that the West is not at war with islam, but only it's radical crazy uncle who keeps stuffed cats in his closet.

It's almost like the Allies during WW2 explaining to the world that they are not at war against the German people but only the National Socialists who run the country...

 

lastlib (6,041 posts)
1. What's a "liberal left"?? Is it distinct from a "conservative left"?? (Which is what, exactly??)

Or a "liberal right"? (can only exist in Dr. DoolittleLand, me thinks........)

I've only heard the term "liberal left" as a pejorative expression from Freeper-types trying to impress their fellow Freeps how right they are. We ain't them.

Warren is obviously a right wing mole.

JaneyVee (9,348 posts)
9. I think "not real Muslims" is simplistic, but...It definitely is the truth, and the truth behind that statement is far more nuanced. I do agree with the main points of your post though.

Thats the problem. The left refuses to identify the real issue.

Douglas Carpenter (19,317 posts)
15. You honestly don't think that a lot of what is going on involves Bigotry against Muslims? You can say that with a straight face?

I think it has more to do with muslims killing innocents and blowing shit up.

oberliner (27,439 posts)
14. Only those who endorse these actions should be criticized Be they Muslim or otherwise.

The reaction to the newest Charlie Hebdo magazine cover, a respectful cartoon of Mohammed, will be quite informative.

Are there any people who are going to say that such an action deserves punishment? Even death? Will those people be using any particular holy text or religious tradition to make that argument?

clueless.

certainot (2,803 posts)
18. there is no way left is going to win ANY major discourse no matter what 'framing' is used- merely because the left continues its idiotic ignorance and underestimation of the rw radio monopoly.

the VRWC strikes again!

OldRedneck (481 posts)
24. This is what I plan to do: Whenever I hear of a violent action by the KKK or similar white supremacist organization, I'm going to attack the Baptists. After all, I grew up in the Mississippi Delta where every single Klansman is a Baptist, therefore, the Baptist denomination is responsible for Klan violence. Hell, some of them are even deacons in their church.

they are all ****ing idiots.

[thundley4]

This same citizen is hearing at the same time, from the right, that all muslims must be held accountable, that the muslim immigrant communities are all suspect, that the solution is to crack down on the "others" to "cleanse the nation", and that citizen is not hearing a reasonable rebuttal of those claims, is instead hearing patent nonsense.

That DUmmie is hearing a dog whistle that no sane person is hearing. I'm glad that most low info voters are dems, because dems have proven time and again that they are mentally unstable and more likely to go on a killing spree than any conservative is.

[98ZJUSMC]

certainot (2,803 posts)
18. there is no way left is going to win ANY major discourse no matter what 'framing' is used- merely because the left continues its idiotic ignorance and underestimation of the rw radio monopoly.

OldRedneck (481 posts)
24. This is what I plan to do: Whenever I hear of a violent action by the KKK or similar white supremacist organization, I'm going to attack the Baptists. After all, I grew up in the Mississippi Delta where every single Klansman is a Baptist, therefore, the Baptist denomination is responsible for Klan violence. Hell, some of them are even deacons in their church.

Why do you idiots insist on living in the 20's and 30's?

Douglas Carpenter (19,317 posts)
15. You honestly don't think that a lot of what is going on involves Bigotry against Muslims? You can say that with a straight face?

Yep.  I can honestly and with no trace of a grin whatsoever, say that I am bigoted against shit getting blowed up ........ by someone other than me.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUtdXzBSVaU

[FiddyBeowulf]

oberliner (27,439 posts)
14. Only those who endorse these actions should be criticized Be they Muslim or otherwise.

The reaction to the newest Charlie Hebdo magazine cover, a respectful cartoon of Mohammed, will be quite informative.

Are there any people who are going to say that such an action deserves punishment? Even death? Will those people be using any particular holy text or religious tradition to make that argument?

There is no such thing as a respectful cartoon of Mohammed, any image of him is considered Haram in Islam.  The reaction will be as expected. Jihadis will lose their shit over it.

[Carl]

Warren you sure live up to your name.
No matter how you try to lecture your fellow sewer slugs on what not to say because normal,sane people are revolted by it,it will do no good.
In the post Marx/Communist era the left of the world and the USA can`t help but side with those against us.

You mutts not only celebrate failure,you strive for it.
You can`t stand the thought of work and the pride of achievement.
Your lives are obsessed with what someone else has and hatred of them for it.
In short you are the antithesis and enemy of every last thing that made America great.

The only time you can set aside your demonic hatred for anything good and religious is when an evil one happens to declare us their enemy.
No amount of finger wagging and trying to hush your rotting masses will hide or change what you are.

[fatboy]

Warren Stupidity (41,109 posts)
For example, the numerous claims from the left that "these were not real muslims", a claim that is devoid of any credibility, drown out the legitimate criticism that these were in fact Islamic jihadists, acting out of their convictions that they were doing the right thing according to their religious beliefs. The typical DEMOCRATIC low information citizen, hearing from the liberal left the ridiculous claims that "these were not real muslims", rejects that DEMOCRATIC nonsense outright. This same DEMOCRATIC citizen is hearing at the same time from the right (on faux news) that all DEMOCRATIC muslims must be held accountable, that the DEMOCRATIC muslim immigrant communities are all suspect, that the solution is to crack down on the DEMOCRATIC "others" to "cleanse the DEMOCRATIC  nation", and that DEMOCRATIC citizen is not hearing a reasonable rebuttal of those claims, is instead hearing patent DEMOCRATIC nonsense.

Fixed it for you Mr. Stupidity.

[obumazombie]

^It's DEMOCRAT, not DEMOCRATIC.

[fatboy]

^It's DEMOCRAT, not DEMOCRATIC.

I sorry, you are right.

[FlaGator]

OldRedneck (481 posts)
24. This is what I plan to do: Whenever I hear of a violent action by the KKK or similar white supremacist organization, I'm going to attack the Baptists. After all, I grew up in the Mississippi Delta where every single Klansman is a Baptist, therefore, the Baptist denomination is responsible for Klan violence. Hell, some of them are even deacons in their church.

I've never heard of the KKK committing some violent act because someone insulted the Baptist Church.

[ChuckJ]

OldRedneck (481 posts)
24. This is what I plan to do: Whenever I hear of a violent action by the KKK or similar white supremacist organization, I'm going to attack the Baptists. After all, I grew up in the Mississippi Delta where every single Klansman is a Baptist, therefore, the Baptist denomination is responsible for Klan violence. Hell, some of them are even deacons in their church.

If you were to check I'm sure that every single Klansman was also a democrat.