do military acadenies just benefit the elite and perpetuate inequity?

[dutch508]

No... I just cut and pasted the title of the OP..

Liberal_in_LA (34,558 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026059352

do military acadenies just benefit the elite and perpetuate inequity?

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/lets-abolish-west-point-military-academies-serve-no-one-squander-millions-tax

Let’s Abolish West Point: Military Academies Serve No One, Squander Millions of Tax Dollars

The service academies once had a purpose: when they were founded in the 19th century (the Air Force split off from Army after World War II), college was classics and religion for gentlemen, so it made sense to have technical training institutes for people who would be in charge of increasingly technical warfare. All the service academies have now to justify their cost and their pretensions, it seems, is their once-illustrious history, and the club of “tradition,” which they wield mercilessly against students who dare question why things are as they are.

Who benefits from these strange historical holdovers? Not the taxpayers who fund them. The service academies are the vanity projects of the brass who went there. Their interest is in looking good (it’s good for their careers) and in keeping the tax dollars flowing. All official information taxpayers get about the service academies comes from the brass who run them and who use them as their private country clubs — at taxpayer expense. Military subordinates (which includes the students) are legally unable to offer conflicting views. The result is that the service academies are feel-good hype factories that operate with virtually no accountability and little oversight, the very definition of government bloat on autopilot.

Oh, yes—there’s one more group of people who defend these places to the death: the parents of the young military members who attend them. Why wouldn’t they? Having their children admitted is a government-sponsored guarantee of a golden ticket to life: college at taxpayer expense with no student debts, the highest salary of any set of graduates, and guaranteed employment and (no-Obamacare-necessary) health benefits for at least five years, frequently well beyond. And no, most people in the military aren’t remotely likely to be shot at.
 

Oh... it's a poll.

MohRokTah (5,356 posts)
1. I cannot believe ANYBODY would have floated the moronic idea that the service academies should be shut down. I seriously can have no political commonality with anybody who would support this.

eh... it's a new post. Should be fun to watch develop.

The service academies are poster boys of the out-of-control entitlement programs Republicans say they hate. So I say to the new Republican Senate majority and the strengthened House majority: Welcome to Washington, and get to work.

Yeah... that makes no sense at all.

By contrast, the mission statement for the Naval Academy, whose graduates cost taxpayers about half a million dollars each and who become officers in the Navy and Marine Corps — and where I am in my 28th year as a professor — makes for stirring reading.

So... the ****stick who wrote the article has taught at the Naval Academy for 28 years? Who is the sponge here?

Conservatives bash welfare and food stamps, but in fact the service academies are the most generous government giveaway going.

The only time retards like this want to take away government hand-outs it's the military. Always the military. They never stop trying to weaken and destroy this country.

The rest of the article is just as shitty. No wonder the DUmpmonkies are hooting over it.

[Ptarmigan]

WTF???????????????? 

[thundley4]

I'm confused. Don't the DUmmies think the government should pay for everyone's college education and require some term and type of government service for it?

Shouldn't they want military colleges to be expanded to allow everyone to attend for free and then serve the government for a few years?   

[wasp69]

Liberal_in_LA (34,558 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026059352

do military acadenies just benefit the elite and perpetuate inequity?

Did you mean "academies", you illiterate turd?

 

In answer to the question asked in your lazy ass, cut and paste job:  No.  Schools that benefit the elite and perpetuate inequality are called "Ivy League", and serve absolutely very little purpose past churning out America hating drek such as yourself.

[Carl]

I'm confused. Don't the DUmmies think the government should pay for everyone's college education yes and require some term and type of government service for it? no

Shouldn't they want military colleges to be expanded to allow everyone to attend for free and then serve the government for a few years?   

They view the military as a drain on the money that should be bestowed on them.

[JohnnyReb]

When the DUmmies post something that shoots my blood pressure up so high I can't think, I just say........

NO COMMENT.

[DumbAss Tanker]

I'm not a big fan of the academies for a variety of reasons, but shutting them down is a stupid idea.

[RayRaytheSBS]

So let me get this straight, this tenured idiot is calling for the closure of the very institution that puts food on his table without having SSDI to fall back on. What is his DU name?

The military academies spend a lot of money on graduates, that is true, but it is an investment in the leadership of our military. One that America expects will be paid back. From the very academy this idiot mocks, the first man who went into space graduated, along with many others, to include one of his personal favorites I'm sure, Jimmy Carter: http://www.usna.edu/Notables/index.php

I have had the pleasure to serve with many fine Platoon Leaders in my time in the Army, but some of the best have been from West Point.

I suggest this 'tenured turd' pound sand, and be used as a base man the next time the plebes tackle the Herndon monument. Oh wait, that would be giving them a handicap. 

[txradioguy]

Conservatives bash welfare and food stamps, but in fact the service academies are the most generous government giveaway going.

Never ceases to amaze me...no matter ho many times this particular meme is debunked...how often it keeps popping up.

[franksolich]

Never ceases to amaze me...no matter ho many times this particular meme is debunked...how often it keeps popping up.

This:

Conservatives bash welfare and food stamps, but in fact the service academies are the most generous government giveaway going.

It seems to me that if recipients of other government giveaways had to comply with the demands under which those attending the service academies have to, it'd drive a lot of lazy people off the welfare rolls.

The service academies don't just give things away; they demand something in return.

Unlike welfare.

[RayRaytheSBS]

This:

It seems to me that if recipients of other government giveaways had to comply with the demands under which those attending the service academies have to, it'd drive a lot of lazy people off the welfare rolls.

The service academies don't just give things away; they demand something in return.

Unlike welfare.

Hi5, well stated. The service academies potentially demand the highest cost any of us can pay; our life. This is given in defense of the nation. This is paid for in sweat, blood, tears, and LOTS of hard work. Something the DUmmies would not understand.

[franksolich]

Not to get off topic, but isn't the rule that each senator and congressman gets to send two individuals to each of the service academies?

But yet the other day--no link; didn't think it'd be necessary to bother with it--Senator Deborah Fischer (R-Nebraska) announced forty-three.

What's the rule now?

And to get back on topic, this roster of forty-three names with short two- and three-sentence summaries of each one, showed no "elitism" at all; they appear pretty representative of all racial, cultural, socioeconomic, urban, rural ranges that make up Nebraska.

[RayRaytheSBS]

Not to get off topic, but isn't the rule that each senator and congressman gets to send two individuals to each of the service academies?

But yet the other day--no link; didn't think it'd be necessary to bother with it--Senator Deborah Fischer (R-Nebraska) announced forty-three.

What's the rule now?

And to get back on topic, this roster of forty-three names with short two- and three-sentence summaries of each one, showed no "elitism" at all; they appear pretty representative of all racial, cultural, socioeconomic, urban, rural ranges that make up Nebraska.

I I thought so too frank, but apparently a senator (or congressman) can only have five people they have nominated at any one service academy at any given time. Here is a link explaining it:http://www.west-point.org/academy/malo-wa/educators/noms.html

Maybe she was acting on behalf of all the senators and congressmen from Nebraska and announcing all the nominees for all the service academies coming from Nebraska? That sounds like what happened to me.

[VivisMom]

OMG.

First off, the service academies are not free; you have to sign away five years of your life to the military after graduation. If you don't make it, you have to pay the money back-and that's not cheap. I'm willing to bet that the 'tuition' is a hell of a lot more than any other 4 year college.

Second, they produce highly skilled graduates. These are people with degrees in hard sciences, and they actually mean something. No Wymyn's Studies at West Point! These are people who will never want for employment because they have a useful, marketable skill. They also have the discipline that comes from having attended a service academy, so employers know that they are hard working, reliable, and honest...which is more than I can say for any of those knuckle-draggers.

I'll admit I'm biased, having grown up in MD. I'm hoping at least one of my kids will attend the USNA (I would be thrilled if she played field hockey for them!) because it's such a great opportunity.

[DUKOTA]

My son graduated in 2010 from the Naval Academy so of course I am very biased.  He got a fantastic education which he used to work on construction projects at the academy for a few years after graduation.n now he is attending the Naval post graduate school in Monterey CA for two years to get his masters, then probably on to the Pentagon.

[obumazombie]

By contrast, the mission statement for the Naval Academy, whose graduates cost taxpayers about half a million dollars each and who become officers in the Navy and Marine Corps — and where I am in my 28th year as a professor — makes for stirring reading.

Are we to understand that the author of this article dutch links to is aka Liberal_in_LA ?

I would be hard pressed to believe that an academy professor, no matter how liberal, would openly reveal themselves to being a flaming liberal.

[DumbAss Tanker]

I would be hard pressed to believe that an academy professor, no matter how liberal, would openly reveal themselves to being a flaming liberal.

Well, there are a few.  The academies are enmeshed in the academic world as well as the military one, and the civilian professors do come from the ranks of broader academia as well as those with the necessary credentials but more military backgrounds.  Even on the uniformed side, there are some liberals in the mix.

[JohnnyReb]

The DUmmies are just upset that they can't get into and out of the military academies without any strings(obligations) attached.

"He's getting something for free, why can't I?"....DUmmie mode.

[thundley4]

Well, there are a few.  The academies are enmeshed in the academic world as well as the military one, and the civilian professors do come from the ranks of broader academia as well as those with the necessary credentials but more military backgrounds.  Even on the uniformed side, there are some liberals in the mix.

We even had civilian instructors at B.E.&E. in boot camp and at both nuke power school and the S8G training center in Ballston Spa.

[98ZJUSMC]

I'm not a big fan of the academies for a variety of reasons, but shutting them down is a stupid idea.

I suspect we both harbor some disdain, for the Prick Factory and Canoe U., for similar reasons.   

...and yes, shutting them down is a stupid idea and a leftist fantasy.

Dear altnet.derp asshole,

You don't know what you're talking about and I doubt very seriously you've spent 28 years teaching there. 

[98ZJUSMC]

We even had civilian instructors at B.E.&E. in boot camp and at both nuke power school and the S8G training center in Ballston Spa.

You had BE&E in boot?  Huh...  The swab jockeys and jarheads (and a coastie or two) in my time had it at NAS Memphis.

Well, before they closed NATTC down and moved it.

[thundley4]

You had BE&E in boot?  Huh...  The swab jockeys and jarheads (and a coastie or two) in my time had it at NAS Memphis.

Well, before they closed NATTC down and moved it.

Not in boot, but right after. I was at Great Mistakes, for boot camp and BE&E, the Orlando for NPS.

[98ZJUSMC]

Not in boot, but right after. I was at Great Mistakes, for boot camp and BE&E, the Orlando for NPS.

Gotcha.  That's where Senior Chief Dad took his.  Samey same.  Boot at Great Lakes, leave in Chicago, then back to Lakes for A school.

[DumbAss Tanker]

I suspect we both harbor some disdain, for the Prick Factory and Canoe U., for similar reasons.   

Yeah, you know what I'm talking about.  I've known some really great academy-trained officers, smart and brave guys I'd gladly serve with anywhere.  Unfortunately some of the most unethical and entitled jackwads I've ever met also graduated from the Hudson Home for Wayward Boys...but that class ring meant they'd be kept out of trouble and shielded from consequences as long as they didn't actually kill a hooker and put the video of it up on YouTube.

[miskie]

Second, they produce highly skilled graduates. These are people with degrees in hard sciences, and they actually mean something. No Wymyn's Studies at West Point! These are people who will never want for employment because they have a useful, marketable skill. They also have the discipline that comes from having attended a service academy, so employers know that they are hard working, reliable, and honest...which is more than I can say for any of those knuckle-draggers.

^^ That's the problem, right there. Academies are among the last of the conservative educational institutions in the United States. And If I were an employer and had to choose between two nearly identical candidates, both with degrees but one with a degree from a military academy - I know who I would hire. - The academy candidate is virtually guaranteed to have the discipline necessary to do whatever needs to be done, whereas the other candidate may or may not. --It's a gamble at best.

One also needs to remember that the left has a stereotype for conservatives that they expect all of them to fall into.- stupid uneducated hicks - And an educated conservative breaks it. The left also enjoys using higher education sources as indoctrination centers - where leftist professors add an extra helping of liberal dogma to every class. That isn't going to happen at an academy.