Primitive Laments 401K accounts

[txradioguy]

It would not surprise me in the least to see some attempt to confiscate private or company based 401k, 403b or other similar retirement savings.  For the general good of the government, probably to help pay for all the illegals they desire to flood our country.

It's already beginning to happen:

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2013/02/the_feds_want_your_retirement_accounts.html

As this TIME article notes...he's already tried to cap the amount you can put into an IRA.  Remember his "no one needs more than $3 million to retire on" crack?

resident Obama’s budget, just sent to Congress, proposes to cap tax-advantaged savings across all accounts at $3 million in order to raise $9 billion over 10 years.

<snip>

The cap proposal is a clear play to unlock some of the $10 trillion sitting in IRA and 401(k) accounts, which have become the primary retirement savings vehicles in America. Congress pried this door open a few months ago by toying with a law forcing heirs to liquidate an IRA within five years—almost certainly triggering otherwise avoidable income-tax payments. We may see that yet.

http://business.time.com/2013/04/10/obamas-budget-would-cap-tax-advantaged-savings/

[Ralph Wiggum]

It's already beginning to happen:

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2013/02/the_feds_want_your_retirement_accounts.html

As this TIME article notes...he's already tried to cap the amount you can put into an IRA.  Remember his "no one needs more than $3 million to retire on" crack?

http://business.time.com/2013/04/10/obamas-budget-would-cap-tax-advantaged-savings/

Oh yeah, I know the pointy-headed idealists with freshly minted Harvard & Yale degrees that Obama surrounds himself with are crafting lots of things like this.  Trial balloons have been floated from time to time as well.  Think Jesse Jackson came out several years ago strongly in favor of attempting a move to do this.  Perhaps worth a google search if one is so inclined.

[txradioguy]

Oh yeah, I know the pointy-headed idealists with freshly minted Harvard & Yale degrees that Obama surrounds himself with are crafting lots of things like this.  Trial balloons have been floated from time to time as well.  Think Jesse Jackson came out several years ago strongly in favor of attempting a move to do this.  Perhaps worth a google search if one is so inclined.

I wonder if a move like this happens, it would finally wake up the idiots at the Chamber of Commerce and the other crony capitalists that play both sides of the political spectrum to the fact that the Progressives aren't their friends?

[Ralph Wiggum]

I wonder if a move like this happens, it would finally wake up the idiots at the Chamber of Commerce and the other crony capitalists that play both sides of the political spectrum to the fact that the Progressives aren't their friends?

One can hope.

It really bothers me when leaders, whether of a company or a country only wants "yes-men" or people around them.  In Obama's case, by all accounts he surrounds himself with both high & lower level advisors who have rarely if ever worked in the private sector.  They only know of pie-in-the-sky idealism of what they've been spoonfed in college classes.

Successful business people, from CEO to CFO on down rely on hearing contrary or differing opinions and points of view.  I'm talking big companies, medium and smaller, as I've worked in various capacities in each.

[Conservative Libertarian]

One can hope.

It really bothers me when leaders, whether of a company or a country only wants "yes-men" or people around them.  In Obama's case, by all accounts he surrounds himself with both high & lower level advisors who have rarely if ever worked in the private sector.  They only know of pie-in-the-sky idealism of what they've been spoonfed in college classes.

Successful business people, from CEO to CFO on down rely on hearing contrary or differing opinions and points of view.  I'm talking big companies, medium and smaller, as I've worked in various capacities in each.

If the government was going to confiscate my retirement account, I would be worth the tax hit to remove it all. At least, you would still have what was left over.

[BattleHymn]

If the government was going to confiscate my retirement account, I would be worth the tax hit to remove it all. At least, you would still have what was left over.

Yes.  I think if they try to do something like this, it will be done as quickly as possible, for this reason.

[Conservative Libertarian]

Yes.  I think if they try to do something like this, it will be done as quickly as possible, for this reason.

One would have to do their best to see it coming.

[zeitgeist]

Yes.  I think if they try to do something like this, it will be done as quickly as possible, for this reason.

Ah yes, Executive Orders...

[Carl]

There are lots of (mostly) leftist bureaucrats that would love the idea of confiscation of 401k and IRA monies to fund another ponzi retirement,dependency scheme.

I am still convinced that any attempt at this would still mean blood running in the streets.

[Ralph Wiggum]

There are lots of (mostly) leftist bureaucrats that would love the idea of confiscation of 401k and IRA monies to fund another ponzi retirement,dependency scheme.

I am still convinced that any attempt at this would still mean blood running in the streets.

The powers that be on Wall Street, who quite often fund both sides of the spectrum, would be absolutely furious.  Unless they had advanced warning & got enough money out.

[Carl]

The powers that be on Wall Street, who quite often fund both sides of the spectrum, would be absolutely furious.  Unless they had advanced warning & got enough money out.

There is virtually no legal vehicle such a thing could happen short of complete dictatorship.
Now,I can imagine some sort of shell game "if you like your health care plan..." voluntary trade off being offered but even then can`t see how it can be lied past the first generation of recipients or funded without punishing older holders of 401Ks.

[freedumb2003b]

A million dollars is not what it used to be.
If you put it in a security or otherwise like investment, the typical rate of return you could expect is anywhere from 1 to 3% over the last 10 to 15 years.
That's $10,000.00 to 30,000.00 annually.
You will be right on the verge of poverty, in it, or right above it.
If you have your house paid off, and no debt, you might be able to get by on that.
But you won't be living like a king.

The rule of thumb is a safe (not insanely safe such as a CD) investment portfolio holds at a 4% withdrawal rate.

Many can make it on $40K a year if you include SS (figure $15K).

Since I don't believe SS will be there but I do have a series of investments and a small pension, I will be OK with $2 million in my 401(K), which I should hit in 8 years.

[txradioguy]

There is virtually no legal vehicle such a thing could happen short of complete dictatorship.

IMO....we're pretty much there already.

[zeitgeist]

It is not hard to play devil's advocate on this.  Let's say there is a flash crash or other 'unexplained' disturbance in the force (called the market) which wipes out large amounts of value in 401k and other alphabet retirement savings, trading curbs kick in.  Uncle Barry steps to the podium and calls for a national moratorium on these unsafe vehicles while offering to make whole the amounts by converting them to a quasi-government guaranteed pension system buttressed by enhanced social security.  A private public partnership with Wall Street.  WIN / WIN (for Wall Street and Uncle Barry)  The investment board will be made up of the best and brightest and regulated by Uncle Sam.  The sick will be healed!! Praise Obama.

A grateful public willingly complies.  Sure, there will be a few strays who try to bolt the stampede but they will be like those few who didn't turn in their gold back in 1933.  Banks and financial markets are under the thumb of the guy who prints the money.  Those holding hard asset, gold, silver, diamonds, and the like, will be able to negotiate without the fiat dollar but anyone else who wants to be in the game has to buy chips from the house of Obama.  A bird in the hand being offered to convert your now next to worthless 401 whatever into a guaranteed buy in at its previous value, ensuring enhanced social security payments.  And that is just one example of what could happen. Now I am not saying it will happen but anything can happen.

[BlueStateSaint]

What they want is a lavish retirement of a guaranteed amount that is paid for by others with no care of the exact ramifications or desire to have ever contributed themselves.

Steve the Les(s)er was on Cavuto's show a few years ago, arguing for this exact idea.  I remember watching it.

[Big Dog]

It is not hard to play devil's advocate on this.  Let's say there is a flash crash or other 'unexplained' disturbance in the force (called the market) which wipes out large amounts of value in 401k and other alphabet retirement savings, trading curbs kick in.  Uncle Barry steps to the podium and calls for a national moratorium on these unsafe vehicles while offering to make whole the amounts by converting them to a quasi-government guaranteed pension system buttressed by enhanced social security.  A private public partnership with Wall Street.  WIN / WIN (for Wall Street and Uncle Barry)  The investment board will be made up of the best and brightest and regulated by Uncle Sam.  The sick will be healed!! Praise Obama.

A grateful public willingly complies.  Sure, there will be a few strays who try to bolt the stampede but they will be like those few who didn't turn in their gold back in 1933.  Banks and financial markets are under the thumb of the guy who prints the money.  Those holding hard asset, gold, silver, diamonds, and the like, will be able to negotiate without the fiat dollar but anyone else who wants to be in the game has to buy chips from the house of Obama.  A bird in the hand being offered to convert your now next to worthless 401 whatever into a guaranteed buy in at its previous value, ensuring enhanced social security payments.  And that is just one example of what could happen. Now I am not saying it will happen but anything can happen.

Who is John Galt?

[obumazombie]

^Just a guy who carried the weight of the world on his shoulders.

[Big Dog]

Putmos I knows FDR confiscated America's wealth, and got away with it.

As William Rivers Pitiful would say, He. ****ing. Knows.

[zeitgeist]

^Just a guy who carried the weight of the world on his shoulders.

My vote would be for 'the man who stopped the engine of the world'. 

[Texacon]

It is not hard to play devil's advocate on this. 

This is way too believable and scary as hell!

In this scenario I have one saving factor in that we own several investment properties. I could imagine the government wanting to seize those as well though.

Scary.

KC

[Big Dog]

My vote would be for 'the man who stopped the engine of the world'.

 

Just shrug.