Obamacare Architect Jon Gruber Says DECEIVING AMERICANS Necessary to Pass Bill
Nothing like the American policy elite showing its true colors.
This recently-posted video (hat tip Daily Signal) shows Obamacare architect Jonathan Gruber matter-of-factly stating that an honestly and simply described Obamacare would not have passed Congress. Preying on “the stupidity of the American voter†was necessary to get the bill passed. Of course, Gruber deems that to be a good thing. And similar well-intentioned policy wonks brought us bank deregulation, which ultimately produced the financial crisis, “free trade,†which is actually managed trade designed around the interests of American multinationals, and our Middle Eastern adventurism, among other things.
Gruber is yet another case study in the Upton Sinclair saying, “It is difficult to get a man to understand something if his salary depends on his not understanding it.†In Gruber’s case, a “transparent†Obamacare bill would have made the enrichment of Big Pharma and the health insurers more visible. The idea of universal healthcare, which also involves the healthy paying for the sick, is popular all over the world. Most people understand that even if they are healthy now, they can in short order be among those needing big ticket health care if they have a too-close encounter with a rapidly moving vehicle. So Gruber’s excuse ins’t just patronizing, it’s dishonest.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/11/obamacare-architect-jon-gruber-says-deceiving-americans-necessary-pass-bill.html
Preying on “the stupidity of the American voter†was necessary to get the bill passed.
It didn't actually fool the American people, the law did not have majority public support, just majority Democrat Congressional support. The stupidity being exploited was more that of Democrats in Congress than that of the American people.
Response to Segami (Original post)
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:46 AM
Seeking Serenity (2,244 posts)
19. I'm absolutely disgusted by this. Makes me want to just give up completely.
We're SUPPOSED to be the good guys. Lies, deceit, distrust of the American people is supposed to be the purview of the other side. Now it appears that our "natural betters" have no less contempt for me and you and every other non-elite than the Republicans.
This is a huge, possible game changer for me. If we can't propose and sell good progressive legislation on its merits without succumbing to deception and contempt of the people, then I just don't know what. I am as dispirited now than I can remember ever being, more so than in 2000, 2004 or 2010. I am NOT, decidedly NOT, have NEVER been a subscriber to the philosophy that "the ends justify the means." I hate them all, because it's clear that they hate me and people like me.
Face it, we're not citizens anymore, we're subjects.
Screw it. Just screw it all.
Our president, who is in the White House...hallowed be thy name. My food stamps come, obamacare is won... In the ghetto as it is in the White House. And lead us not into prosperity but deliver us from rich folk. For thine is the money, the power, and the adulation. Forever and ever. Amen
Response to Segami (Original post)
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:46 AM
Seeking Serenity (2,244 posts)
19. I'm absolutely disgusted by this. Makes me want to just give up completely.
We're SUPPOSED to be the good guys. Lies, deceit, distrust of the American people is supposed to be the purview of the other side. Now it appears that our "natural betters" have no less contempt for me and you and every other non-elite than the Republicans.
Response to Segami (Original post)
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:46 AM
Seeking Serenity (2,244 posts)
19. I'm absolutely disgusted by this. Makes me want to just give up completely.
We're SUPPOSED to be the good guys. Lies, deceit, distrust of the American people is supposed to be the purview of the other side. Now it appears that our "natural betters" have no less contempt for me and you and every other non-elite than the Republicans.
This is a huge, possible game changer for me. If we can't propose and sell good progressive legislation on its merits without succumbing to deception and contempt of the people, then I just don't know what. I am as dispirited now than I can remember ever being, more so than in 2000, 2004 or 2010. I am NOT, decidedly NOT, have NEVER been a subscriber to the philosophy that "the ends justify the means." I hate them all, because it's clear that they hate me and people like me.
Face it, we're not citizens anymore, we're subjects.
Screw it. Just screw it all.
This is a huge, possible game changer for me.You're a little late. :whatever:
« Last Edit: Today at 05:28:53 PM by franksolich »
They complain about conspiracies, plots, lies, and cynical politicians all day, every day, yet when there is a complete, unabashed, videotaped confession they still refuse to accept they've been screwed.
Ummmm.... ?
It's a correction on a link to an image.
For some of us, the images are refusing to show, because the "address" begins with "https" rather than "http." I modify to delete the "s" so that everybody can see the image, not just a privileged few.
<<<got tired of seeing red "x"s rather than images.
I dunno what causes this; all I know is that by modifying posts so as to delete the "s," it takes care of the problem.
Roger, got it, thank you, Frank. :-)
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:46 AM
Seeking Serenity (2,244 posts)
19. I'm absolutely disgusted by this. Makes me want to just give up completely.
We're SUPPOSED to be the good guys. Lies, deceit, distrust of the American people is supposed to be the purview of the other side. Now it appears that our "natural betters" have no less contempt for me and you and every other non-elite.
If we can't propose and sell good progressive legislation on its merits without succumbing to deception and contempt of the people, then I just don't know what.
| Gruber Then (http://cdn.breitbart.com/mediaserver/Breitbart/Big-Government/2014/Obamacare/jonathan-gruber-ap.jpg) | Gruber Now (http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsR/14652-5004.gif) |
He prayed on the stupidity of the people who voted for it and for the voters that put those people into office.
If I remember correctly, the summer before the bill was passed, there were a lot of heated town-halls, with the voters up in arms over Obamacare.
This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure [the Congressional Budget Office] did not score the mandate as taxes. If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies. OK? So it's written to do that. In terms of risk-rated subsidies, if you had a law which said healthy people are going to pay in — you made explicit that healthy people pay in and sick people get money — it would not have passed. OK? Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical to get the thing to pass. Look, I wish ... we could make it all transparent, but I'd rather have this law than not.
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/gruber.asp#WHjFmQHlHr8fSlyS.99
Here is the quote.
Now,basically all health insurance requires a pool of healthy paying for the sick,that is not the issue.
The problem here is the government mandating that function and to a degree administering it,funding it via various taxes.
That officially makes it an entitlement program,which despite what the left declares,is in the actual reality based world a loser.
This
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn2/protozoan4/BbuN8iJCMAA34dL_zpsc343d11a.png) (http://s300.photobucket.com/user/protozoan4/media/BbuN8iJCMAA34dL_zpsc343d11a.png.html)
Actually, a few years ago, think when Bush was still president, one of these idiots actually said when dems lie they did it for the greater good.
Still, how shallow do you have to be to be more concerned about how the lies make you look that the substance of the lie?
Cindie
It didn't actually fool the American people, the law did not have majority public support, just majority Democrat Congressional support. The stupidity being exploited was more that of Democrats in Congress than that of the American people.
Today it was revealed there are at least 2 more tapes where Gruber admits to lying. This is just at the point where libs were trying to recork the pandora pandemonium Gruber unleashed. He was trying to lie to cover up his gaffe of telling the truth. He claims his inadvertent comments were "off the cuff", and misspeaking. Well, he offed the cuff and misspoke at least 3 times. Not every lib is as good a liar as Clinnochio.
I can hear the sound of dozens of hard disks simultaneously failing from here...
I just saw another tape where he said that they got the Feds to pay the bill for Romney-care.
"The dirty little secret in Massachusetts is the Feds pay for our bill. In Massachusetts we had a very powerful Senator named Ted Kennedy. Ted Kennedy basically figured out how to rip off the Feds for about 400 million dollars a year."
On June 13, 2012, Obamacare Jonathan Gruber was interviewed by Frontline. He told them that the Cadillac tax issue was addressed in 2009. Obama knew it was going to be a problem, and they all agreed to lie about it.
What Jonathan Gruber is taking heat for right now, was planned out specifically with Barack Obama. It wasn’t just him. It was all of them, with Obama in the room taking part.
Obama was at the center of this deception. He specifically ordered Gruber and other “healthcare experts†to find ways to game the CBO numbers so that the bill would pass. In his gleeful showboating over passing the bill, Jonathan Gruber has clearly identified President Obama as the source of the lie behind the Cadillac Tax. The story is no longer about Jonathan Gruber. It’s about the deliberate lie the President used to pass this monstrosity of a healthcare law.
SMOKING GUN VIDEO: Jonathan Gruber Admitted Obama Was In the Room When Cadillac Tax Lie Was Created. UPDATE: WHITE HOUSE LOGS CONFIRM!
^Yikes !
I think Gruber better turn real gay real fast to have something to divert attention. This is trainwreck stuff.
I think Gruber better turn real gay real fast to have something to divert attention. This is trainwreck stuff.
take a pump in the keester and/or swallow a sword, if he thought it would help dear leader.
There's a 5th tape out.
It features Gruber voicing all the conservative reactions and predictions during town hall meetings leading up to owebumacare.
At the very least every penny of income tax should be paid, and if not the IRS should pursue him for anything he owes.
Any link to the new video? I would really like to see it.
Yup, the IRS should pursue him VIGOROUSLY!
KC
Any link to the new video? I would really like to see it.
http://hotair.com/archives/2014/11/14/the-hits-keep-coming-gruber-video-6/
Fri Nov 14, 2014, 06:54 PM
New Deal Dave (32 posts)
Jonathan Gruber
We really need to get a handle on this Gruber shit before it kills ACA. Even my students are talking about this guy. The right-wingers are all over it and throwing it back in the faces of the Progressives and others I work with. Frankly, I am at a loss for words on how to explain this numbskull and his statements. I am caught completely off guard by this crap.
Gruber's shit is going to bleed out and cover us all if we don't watch out.
Response to JaneyVee (Reply #1)
Fri Nov 14, 2014, 07:05 PM
New Deal Dave (32 posts)
4. What happened to me or Gruber?
I'm a college instructor. I teach history and government. I use current events in both as a link and an illustration. Usually, I start off my class with a topic, but since the Gruber mess broke it's my students, particularly the trouble-making little conservative shits, who have hijacked the classes with Gruber as their main focus. They use his statements and his past association with Obama and ACA as their springboard. I simply can't deny what the fool has said because he's on tape saying it -- calling Americans stupid and saying that ACA is the beneficiary of "a lack of transparency."
My right-wing colleagues are tearing the Progressive caucus up with this shit to the point I'm getting a bit unnerved about it.
Gruber's comments are starting to get some play outside the FauxNews hate realm and that's where the danger is.
Response to Hoyt (Reply #8)
Fri Nov 14, 2014, 07:15 PM
New Deal Dave (32 posts)
9. I'm getting a bad vibe from this
Some of the responses here indicate a slack attitude about this development.
Response to New Deal Dave (Original post)
Fri Nov 14, 2014, 10:04 PM
Lee-Lee (1,606 posts)
38. I fear his crap has set any chance of single payer back a decade or more
For many years now any time we try for real reform his comments will be the back of the mind of many Americans making them less likely to trust what we are trying to do- and at the forefront of all reactionist opposition making sure it stays in the back of people's minds.
If you want to see something that will back people up, make them stubborn and make them turn on you even to the point of self harm just call them stupid and act like you are superior.
Response to New Deal Dave (Original post)
Sat Nov 15, 2014, 03:27 AM
Star Member simak (40 posts)
55. Concern trolls notwithstanding,
future legislation will come out better when it's been vetted by ad campaigns featuring Jonathan Gruber telling voters how stupid they are and Nancy Pelosi daring them to pass something in order to find out what's inside it.
Oh yeah, and Barack Obama promising you can keep your plan.
:lmao:
Response to New Deal Dave (Original post)
Sat Nov 15, 2014, 03:45 AM
Odin2005 (48,880 posts)
56. This has all the hallmarks of a MSM manufactured controversy.
They are pushing the "liberal elitists" RW lie.
Response to Odin2005 (Reply #56)
Sat Nov 15, 2014, 12:49 PM
Star Member Dreamer Tatum (9,261 posts)
60. Except for, oh, Gruber ridiculing you and me and Congress and the CBO on video.
But by all means - wish it into the cornfield.
Response to New Deal Dave (Original post)
Sat Nov 15, 2014, 12:54 PM
And Kentuck thinks he's a GOP shill!
kentuck (72,312 posts)
61. undercover agent for the GOP Senate?
Too stupid to not be intentional.
Any link to the new video? I would really like to see it.
Yup, the IRS should pursue him VIGOROUSLY!
KC
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 06:59 PM
Lee-Lee (1,602 posts)
The most bothering thing about this Gruber mess to me
Is that when I sit and think about it- his comments about having to be dishonest and count on the "stupidity of the American voter" and "the lack of economic understanding of the American voter" and “the American people are too stupid to understand the differenceâ€......
He is talking about US.
The people that supported and rooted for the ACA.
Democrats.
Because we were the only ones supporting it and the only support that was really needed. They only really tried to sell it to us.
The rethugs and teabaggers certainly didn't support it because of anything he did or how they wrote the bill and hid/labeled stuff.
So logically statements about them being able to pass it because people were tricked into supporting it because they are stupid can only apply to those who did, in fact support it. Certainly we can say it didn't apply to all who backed it, not at all. But he wasn't talking about all the teabaggers who jumped on board because of their stupidity, because there were not any. So he has to be saying that a certain percentage of ACA backers only did so because they were not smart enough to know what was in the bill.
That is what he thinks of us, the people who backed the bill and helped get it passed.
Maybe I am taking it the wrong way, but I can't see any way to ascribe his remarks to anyone but the people he figures that he duped into backing the bill because they were stupid. That is us, the people whose side he is supposedly on.
**** you Jonathan Gruber.
Video embedded in HotAir link...[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPnxG0IUKTo[/youtube]
http://hotair.com/archives/2014/11/14/gruber-video-5-mocking-critics-as-adolescent-children/ (http://hotair.com/archives/2014/11/14/gruber-video-5-mocking-critics-as-adolescent-children/)
The Dummies are slowly beginning to see the light.
In previously posted but only recently noticed speeches, Gruber discusses how those pushing the bill took part in an "exploitation of the lack of economic understanding of the American voter," taking advantage of voters' "stupidity" to create a law that would ultimately be good for them.http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/14/politics/gruber-update-friday-white-house-obamacare/index.html
Jay Carney: Gruber harmful to Obama Shocking remarks by Obamacare consultant Democrats denounce Obamacare architect Obamacare adviser reacts to enrollment
The issue at hand in this sixth video is known as the "Cadillac tax," which was represented as a tax on employers' expensive health insurance plans. While employers do not currently have to pay taxes on health insurance plans they provide employees, starting in 2018, companies that provide health insurance that costs more than $10,200 for an individual or $27,500 for a family will have to pay a 40 percent tax.
"Economists have called for 40 years to get rid of the regressive, inefficient and expensive tax subsidy provided for employer provider health insurance," Gruber said at the Pioneer Institute for public policy research in Boston. The subsidy is "terrible policy," Gruber said.
"It turns out politically it's really hard to get rid of," Gruber said. "And the only way we could get rid of it was first by mislabeling it, calling it a tax on insurance plans rather than a tax on people when we all know it's a tax on people who hold those insurance plans."
Another thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025818745 (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025818745)
Kingofalldems (14,640 posts)
63. Darn shame the OP has been PPRed.
Looks like he was a republican.
So bringing up the damage that Gruber has done to Obamacare, gets your posting privileges revoked?
How democratic of them. ::)
The only posters that have earned the right to complain about Democrats at DU are those that have been there for years. All others are assumed to be trolls. That is (in part) our doing, as we keep the paranoia at DU cranked up to 11.
Perhaps proving he does believe we are stupid, President Obama said he “just heard about†the controversy swirling around Jonathan Gruber, who is widely seen as the architect of Obamacare.http://www.bizpacreview.com/2014/11/16/surprise-hopelessly-out-of-touch-obama-says-he-just-heard-about-stupid-american-voter-videos-159304
The only posters that have earned the right to complain about Democrats at DU are those that have been there for years. All others are assumed to be trolls. That is (in part) our doing, as we keep the paranoia at DU cranked up to 11.